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Author Topic: Hy6 and a 28mm  (Read 15856 times)
Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2007, 08:21:43 PM »
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I disagree regarding having 1 system for everything, before digital I had more then 1 system. I shot with 35mm 6x6 hasselblad and 4x5. Now I shoot 2 systems, 1 cambo wide ds with 24xl, 25, 47 and 58. I am looking forward to  purchasing the hy6 or H camera.   With the cambo I can correct the perspective can you do that with a H camera?
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 I know, I know, I will never win, this thread will never end, but...

What if I say that...

 I could have my Mamiya 645AFD with a 80,150,40,35 ... rent a 28mm ...

AND 1

cambo wide ds with 24xl, 25,47 and 58.

Whith the cambo I can correct perspective

AND with the Mamiya I could shoot WIDE action things, like: airborn architectural, speed boats, speed horses, speed cars, a model on deck of a sailing boat etc etc.

Can you do that with the thousands of dollars invested in your two systems? NO. You need a third system.

See my point?
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« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2007, 09:44:47 PM »
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well, you're right, that's a never ending "story"!

But still, I would like to answer "YES" to your last question. YES, he can do this with his 2 systems, like you can do it with yours.

Simply take 2 or 3 shots with the 35mm and stitch them together: it would probably take less time (and cost less) than getting out to rent a 28mm.

Best regards,
Thierry


Quote
I know, I know, I will never win, this thread will never end, but...

What if I say that...

 I could have my Mamiya 645AFD with a 80,150,40,35 ... rent a 28mm ...

AND 1

cambo wide ds with 24xl, 25,47 and 58.

Whith the cambo I can correct perspective

AND with the Mamiya I could shoot WIDE action things, like: airborn architectural, speed boats, speed horses, speed cars, a model on deck of a sailing boat etc etc.

Can you do that with the thousands of dollars invested in your two systems? NO. You need a third system.

See my point?
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2007, 11:06:47 PM »
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Hi Thierry, you can probably ask the guys in SINAR why they went 66. I admire the design in my 4x5 SINAR, it is a brand I respect...

But the answer you are giving is not correct because of the impossibility of stitching images while shooting a fashion model on the deck of a boat, or any other action subject.

In any case you can probably shoot an action subject that requires a wide view with your second system -- the one that is not the Hy6 -- pre focusing and using a range-finder. Stitching would also be done better with that other system, by the way.

My advantage with a 28 mm would be to have it attached to an AF, auto exposure, reflex, medium format system that is as small and manageable as a Nikon F.

You would have two choices: turn down the assignment or rent a Hasselblad or Mamiya system.

Also you have to remember that there is no 35mm yet. How is this lens going to be? what f.stop? price? barrel distortion etc etc. It is difficult to buy a system before meeting this important lens. I use mine all the time. I know that it has some barrel, but is a good sharp work horse that is in my pelican case as we speak (I got a demo at a bargain)...

Quote
well, you're right, that's a never ending "story"!

But still, I would like to answer "YES" to your last question. YES, he can do this with his 2 systems, like you can do it with yours.

Simply take 2 or 3 shots with the 35mm and stitch them together: it would probably take less time (and cost less) than getting out to rent a 28mm.

Best regards,
Thierry
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thsinar
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« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2007, 11:24:28 PM »
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hi Leonardo,

I'm not trying to argue to argue. When there is sun there are also shadows.

On the other side, I don't know so many shoting a model with a 28mm on MF: seems weird to me.

And AF on a Wide 28mm wouldn't be that much of a need, is it?

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Hi Thierry, you can probably ask the guys in SINAR why they went 66. I admire the design in my 4x5 SINAR, it is a brand I respect...

But the answer you are giving is not correct because of the impossibility of stitching images while shooting a fashion model on the deck of a boat, or any other action subject.

In any case you can probably shoot an action subject that requires a wide view with your second system -- the one that is not the Hy6 -- pre focusing and using a range-finder. Stitching would also be done better with that other system, by the way.

My advantage with a 28 mm would be to have it attached to an AF, auto exposure, reflex, medium format system that is as small and manageable as a Nikon F.

You would have two choices: turn down the assignment or rent a Hasselblad or Mamiya system.

Also you have to remember that there is no 35mm yet. How is this lens going to be? what f.stop? price? barrel distortion etc etc. It is difficult to buy a system before meeting this important lens. I use mine all the time. I know that it has some barrel, but is a good sharp work horse that is in my pelican case as we speak (I got a demo at a bargain)...
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2007, 12:15:25 AM »
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Hi Thierry
Re focusing and wide angle lenses, I am fiinding that with the 35mm lens on H1 my most reliable focusing is with the distance scale on the lens. Its not that easy to focus manually if in subdued ambient light and/or the subject has no hard edges. Also, being centre point focusing the af is not that usable as after composing an image you don't want to have to do it again just for the purpose of focusing. Missed focus is quite obvious with MF. The 28mm would have a bit better dof, but can't imagine it being a big difference. A good multipoint af would be a useful feature that I would look for in a new purchase.
regards
David


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And AF on a Wide 28mm wouldn't be that much of a need, is it?

Best regards,
Thierry
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2007, 08:46:24 AM »
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As a sales representative is that your answer to a photographer that wants to shoot a model --or any other moving subject -- with a wide angle: "your question seams weird"? and... "use a view camera from someone else"?

Anyway, what about the 35mm part of my question, when will it be out and what are the specs?





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hi Leonardo,

I'm not trying to argue to argue. When there is sun there are also shadows.

On the other side, I don't know so many shoting a model with a 28mm on MF: seems weird to me.

And AF on a Wide 28mm wouldn't be that much of a need, is it?

Best regards,
Thierry
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thsinar
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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2007, 09:23:56 AM »
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Dear Lenardo,

I don't understand why you get so agressive? I have asked a simple question. It does not seem, for me, a "standard" choice to take a 28mm on a MF sensor to shoot fashion. And I am not at all trying to make you do this particular job with a view camera!

There might be cases, and I don't pretend to deny you that you have been confronted with this, but I would not consider this to be a common and a daily choice of lens for fashion work, with all due respect. Im a speaking here not as a sales manager, but as a photographer having a bit experience.

I respect all and every idea and choice, but an explanation is sometimes necessary and not too much asked.
I am simply trying to understand why the availability or not of a 28mm lens on MF makes people decide to go for a system or not. And then I will take this information and report it: you might suspect that I shall be asked for the reasons, when defending or rejecting the idea of such a lens in our system at Sinar.

35 mm for the Sinar Hy6 & availability: this lens will be a "Schneider AFD 2.8/35 PQS". More details and specs will follow i due time. This lens should be available in January '08. Prices will be communicated (sorry, I don't have them, yet).

Thank and best regards,
Thierry


Quote
As a sales representative is that your answer to a photographer that wants to shoot a model --or any other moving subject -- with a wide angle: "your question seams weird"? and... "use a view camera from someone else"?

Anyway, what about the 35mm part of my question, when will it be out and what are the specs?
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2007, 09:51:33 AM »
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Best regards to you Thierry, maybe I should see the camera one day. Send me an invitation when in NY...


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Dear Lenardo,

I don't understand why you get so agressive? I have asked a simple question. It does not seem, for me, a "standard" choice to take a 28mm on a MF sensor to shoot fashion. And I am not at all trying to make you do this particular job with a view camera!

There might be cases, and I don't pretend to deny you that you have been confronted with this, but I would not consider this to be a common and a daily choice of lens for fashion work, with all due respect. Im a speaking here not as a sales manager, but as a photographer having a bit experience.

I respect all and every idea and choice, but an explanation is sometimes necessary and not too much asked.
I am simply trying to understand why the availability or not of a 28mm lens on MF makes people decide to go for a system or not. And then I will take this information and report it: you might suspect that I shall be asked for the reasons, when defending or rejecting the idea of such a lens in our system at Sinar.

35 mm for the Sinar Hy6 & availability: this lens will be a "Schneider AFD 2.8/35 PQS". More details and specs will follow i due time. This lens should be available in January '08. Prices will be communicated (sorry, I don't have them, yet).

Thank and best regards,
Thierry
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thsinar
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« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2007, 10:20:34 AM »
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Thanks!

I shall forward your wish to our distributor.

Best regards,
Thierry

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Best regards to you Thierry, maybe I should see the camera one day. Send me an invitation when in NY...
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2007, 11:46:40 PM »
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EPd,

Thanks for the information and clarification. We at Sinar had been told it was a Schneider. Sorry if I'm wrong.
Availability: may be optimistic, nevertheless that also what we have been given as last date for the availability.

If you are such an "insider": would you please tell the people you are in contact with to give us the correct information? Would be helpfull, indeed.

Thanks and kind regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry,

Please check your sources. The 35mm is announced as a Flektogon. This is not a Schneider model name, but Zeiss Jena, aka Jenoptik. The image of the lens I posted in this thread is the same as used in Sinar's publications:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=130202

[attachment=3158:attachment]

As for this Flektogon's availability: don't hold you breath. It's going to take some time before all its design issues are ironed out. January '08 seems too optimistic to me.

Anyway, for those wanting a wide angle for their future Hy6, there is always still the 30mm Zeiss fisheye. Its pictures can easily be calculated into distortion free images using software. And then: there is always something called "film". For those who never tried it: it makes awesome images, especially with wide angles like 30mm fisheye and 40mm. There is nothing wrong with occasionally using it when you need the widest angles now and then.

To Leonardo: you might like to educate yourself some more before asking further questions. I suggest you start here and read the entire thread (especially my messages):
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=17511

Regards,
EPd
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2007, 01:31:42 AM »
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Dear All,

I have been checking, since EPd had other information than the one I published about the coming 35mm, to know where the mistake comes from.

It is entirely my mistake!

We know about this 35mm lens being a Flektogon 2.8/35 mm HFT PQS since Mai this year.

Unfortunately I had not noticed this and used an older information.

My apologies for the mistake.

EPd. Thanks to point this out.

Best regards,
Thierry

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EPd,

Thanks for the information and clarification. We at Sinar had been told it was a Schneider. Sorry if I'm wrong.

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2007, 09:21:52 AM »
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EPd, thanks, I have seen your post. I don't think I have more questions, I think that things are as clear as they will probably get. Anyone that wants to spend tens of thousands in a system like this must probably be 18 or older and able to figure out the survival chances of a new MF system with tree heads, no 28mm and no 35mm... at the moment I'm using my time to educate myself on the new Capture 1  -4- that seams more complex...

Quote
Thierry,

Please check your sources. The 35mm is announced as a Flektogon. This is not a Schneider model name, but Zeiss Jena, aka Jenoptik. The image of the lens I posted in this thread is the same as used in Sinar's publications:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=130202

[attachment=3158:attachment]

As for this Flektogon's availability: don't hold you breath. It's going to take some time before all its design issues are ironed out. January '08 seems too optimistic to me.

Anyway, for those wanting a wide angle for their future Hy6, there is always still the 30mm Zeiss fisheye. Its pictures can easily be calculated into distortion free images using software. And then: there is always something called "film". For those who never tried it: it makes awesome images, especially with wide angles like 30mm fisheye and 40mm. There is nothing wrong with occasionally using it when you need the widest angles now and then.

To Leonardo: you might like to educate yourself some more before asking further questions. I suggest you start here and read the entire thread (especially my messages):
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=17511

Regards,
EPd
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« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2007, 09:44:30 AM »
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EPd, thanks, I have seen your post. I don't think I have more questions, I think that things are as clear as they will probably get. Anyone that wants to spend tens of thousands in a system like this must probably be 18 or older and able to figure out the survival chances of a new MF system with tree heads, no 28mm and no 35mm... at the moment I'm using my time to educate myself on the new Capture 1  -4- that seams more complex...
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oh, i thought you are older than 18. sorry my mistake herein.....
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« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2007, 10:49:29 AM »
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Thierry,

Anyway, for those wanting a wide angle for their future Hy6, there is always still the 30mm Zeiss fisheye. Its pictures can easily be calculated into distortion free images using software. And then: there is always something called "film". For those who never tried it: it makes awesome images, especially with wide angles like 30mm fisheye and 40mm. There is nothing wrong with occasionally using it when you need the widest angles now and then.

Regards,
EPd
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The scary thing is I think you are serious.
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« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2007, 02:51:10 PM »
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The scary thing is I think you are serious.
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Actually Howard, I suspect that EPd is right on one thing: film is the only type of 6x6 format "sensor" that we are likely to see in DSLRs (as opposed to spy satellites) and so in some sense it is the best sensor choice for a 6x6 format system, at least for those who seek more than mildly wide angle coverage. (The forthcoming 35mm will with 36x48 give FOV like about 23-27mm in 24x36, depending on the shape you want. Still the least wide rectilinear wide angle option of any SLR system I know of by a good margin.)
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2007, 06:22:18 PM »
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It wold be good to have one of this shift adapters to mount the lens (whenever it becomes available) on a Mamiya 645. Since the mount ring to film/sensor plane is larger on the Hy6 than on a 645 there is space for the shift "mechanism" and the larger image circle could provide good movement latitude.

The architects and engineers of this lens will have a tall order producing this one. On the Hy6 it will be an extravagance to have a lens with all that wasted image circle Is like having one that could go to f1.4 but "made for 5.6" or as if it was f1.4 for film and 5.6 for digital.




Quote
Actually Howard, I suspect that EPd is right on one thing: film is the only type of 6x6 format "sensor" that we are likely to see in DSLRs (as opposed to spy satellites) and so in some sense it is the best sensor choice for a 6x6 format system, at least for those who seek more than mildly wide angle coverage. (The forthcoming 35mm will with 36x48 give FOV like about 23-27mm in 24x36, depending on the shape you want. Still the least wide rectilinear wide angle option of any SLR system I know of by a good margin.)
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« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2007, 01:27:21 AM »
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It wold be good to have one of this shift adapters to mount the lens (whenever it becomes available) on a Mamiya 645. Since the mount ring to film/sensor plane is larger on the Hy6 than on a 645 there is space for the shift "mechanism" and the larger image circle could provide good movement latitude.

The architects and engineers of this lens will have a tall order producing this one. On the Hy6 it will be an extravagance to have a lens with all that wasted image circle Is like having one that could go to f1.4 but "made for 5.6" or as if it was f1.4 for film and 5.6 for digital.
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I am sure that in stead of a revolving back, there would be space on the the HY6 to have a shifting back

If I am not incorrect the revolving bit is seperate from the camera so both would be optons

Given 15mm+- onth hy6 it woud move from loser to winner on the spec front fro 645 chips

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2007, 04:05:40 AM »
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I am sure that in stead of a revolving back, there would be space on the the HY6 to have a shifting back

If I am not incorrect the revolving bit is seperate from the camera so both would be optons

Given 15mm+- onth hy6 it woud move from loser to winner on the spec front fro 645 chips

S
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I was wondering if Hy6 do have a 28mm lens will the user start to question if a 24mm is possible? I think it is also fair to Hy6/Sinar that they might say they want to introduce a digital only 28mm lens for digital use only, it would for sure cost less than hainvg a 28mm cover the entire 6X6 format, and might as well include a software correction build in their hardware as Hasselblad did. But we should also praise for a company they look beyond the current confine of 36X48 sensor and hope to introduce something for potential and possibility, if not today, even if never, but the camera is no bigger than the current cameras in the market so why should we bother so much?  I think at least Hy6/Sinar is trying to challenge something more difficult than matched what was available today.  The Hy6 should be a very nice image capture viechcle to provide most needs, and just like there is no car that is perfect for all kind of uses.  And probably Hy6 is the only platform to make utilize the Schneider tilt/shift lens made for the 600X mount that we ought to remember. But then I suppose for more serious and demanding photographer they will prefer to have a technical camera with back movement.  
I guess it is fair to say if a camera is good enough to cover 90% of the work it is a good platform. There is always times we find shortage of certain focal length or features in professional use, it happend to our cameras today and it will happen to camers tomorrow.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 04:07:35 AM by Khun_K » Logged
BJNY
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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2007, 07:33:45 AM »
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Sam,
A shifting/stitching back plate is an EXCELLENT idea allowing for EVERY Rollei-6000-mount lens to have rise/fall or shift EFFECT.

Kapture Group already offers it for the Fuji GX680 http://www.kapturegroup.com/solution/two.html , so hopefully KG or Alpa or Leaf will manufacture such an adapter plate.

Billy
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 07:54:54 AM by BJNY » Logged

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