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Author Topic: Canon 1Ds3 specs up !  (Read 28101 times)
Mark_Tucker
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« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2007, 09:53:18 PM »
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Why am I making a mental compromise?  This is how the camera comes.  I CAN'T CHANGE IT.  Either I find a way to work with it or not.  Its that simple.  We are supposed to be pro's, either we figure out a way or move on.   I choose not to move on. 

You can complain until the cows come home but this is the bottom line.  You vote with your pocketbook.  You don't like the camera, just don't purchase it. 

Bitching is pointless and changes nothing at this point.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134689\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Craig,

You sound like John Gray or something. You gotta lighten up. Bitching is fun, and sometimes, it actually accomplishes something. If we hadn't bitched about the four-pin connector, we'd still have that; now at least we have USB-2; (let's just see how long it takes for it to also slip right out of the socket as well). But let's hope it's a micro-improvement over the four-pin. I just wonder how USB-2 is going to deal with these larger 21MP files, once people start shooting at five frames per second, tethered. Hmm. That's a lot of data to cram through a slow pipeline.

Also, you can't "vote with your pocketbook" either, as you imply. At some point, you've got to buy a camera, because if you voted with your pocketbook, you'd never buy any of these cameras. None of them are perfect. So you buy what you buy, and try to get them to improve the next model. Just singing the Happy Canon Campfire Song is not going to get you a better camera. If nobody ever bitched, we'd still be driving AMC Gremlins.

Actually, all of this is a ploy; I'm just trying to build up the hype around the "much better" Phase/Contax solution, and then, come early December, dump them all and buy a couple of IDsIII bodies, and make my life easy again. So play along with me, won't you?

Seriously, the reason that I'm complaining is simply because the Canon is such a great camera, and because it's so much easier to hit "good color" with, than the Phase. At least for me, in the way I shoot. If anyone is shooting very controlled situations; ie ProFotos in a studio, with no balanced window ambient, at F16, the Phase backs blow the Canons out of the water. No doubt. But where I get into trouble is when I start shooting outside, in shady conditions, or less than optimum silked daylight; that's where the Phase starts looking funky, and the Canon would continue to shine brightly, especially if the Canon files are run in DPP. DPP is King, if you're after great color. DPP has the Secret Sauce.

I want my life (and post-production) to be easier, and with Canon it is, and with Phase it's not. Simply, medium format post production is just a bear. So secretly, I really wanted this new Canon to be a Medium Format Killer, so I could get my life back, but so far, I'm not convinced. In the 1ds3, I don't see an Advertising/Studio Camera. I just see a jacked-up, hopped-up Sports Camera. (Who the hell shoots five frames per second in the studio, anyway? Seriously). I'd gladly give them back four frames per second out of those five, in exchange for a solid, fast, dependable way to tether for advertising. And also tethering software that was professional grade, instead of that consumer EOS Utility stuff that they could care less about. Clients have seen the light, and they're not going back. Once you shoot tethered, you're screwed, because they'll always ask for tethered from then on.

Anyway, glad you're making money with your 1ds2. I've made a good bit with mine, too. I'd love nothing more than to have two 1ds3 bodies, three lenses, and just walk on the airplane with nothing more than that. Maybe it'll happen, but maybe it won't. December will be an interesting month.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2007, 10:11:50 PM by Mark_Tucker » Logged
madmanchan
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« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2007, 07:52:09 AM »
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Hi Mark,

I haven't read much about the new Canon WiFi gizmo ... is the concern here that the WiFi solution would be either too unreliable or too slow to use for "tethered" shooting with the 1Ds III and its big files?
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gehle
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« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2007, 08:12:35 AM »
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My original statement stands as written.  I have 3-10' usb cables connected together....no hub and it works perfectly. Specs be danged, it works.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134689\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well that was the answer that I was originally asking for. Thanks.

Ken Gehle
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Chris_Brown
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« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2007, 10:21:12 AM »
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After reading the info on this Canon site, it is clear that Canon is promoting an FTP/PTP/HTTP protocol for data transfer & distribution as better than a wired camera. Wireless/LAN looks to provide a much wider solution set to getting images to a computer for client review, assistant culling or even posting on a gallery web site.

Ken has mentioned that his workflow is to have the AD watch the images as they pop up on a tethered computer screen. With Canon's wireless (or wired via ethernet) data transfer, it'd be possible for multiple computers in multiple locations to see images as they are transferred to a hard drive.

In theory this sounds great. Many of my clients are out of town and presumably this would allow them to participate in the shoot from their desk, hundreds of miles away. In practice, well, we'll see.

One clear downside is the cost. It's another $1K for this little attachment.

I think it was a good solution to make this device an external attachment, though. We will not be stuck on IEEE802.11g and IEEE802.11b wireless protocol forever, and this will hopefully allow multiple models of cameras to stay current with file transfer & distribution.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 10:34:56 AM by Chris_Brown » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2007, 11:20:06 AM »
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I think it was a good solution to make this device an external attachment, though. We will not be stuck on IEEE802.11g and IEEE802.11b wireless protocol forever, and this will hopefully allow multiple models of cameras to stay current with file transfer & distribution.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134807\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That sounds nice, but they're more likely to upgrade the unit alongside new models like they did with the first one.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 11:20:42 AM by wilburdl » Logged

Darnell
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« Reply #65 on: August 22, 2007, 11:38:46 AM »
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That sounds nice, but they're more likely to upgrade the unit alongside new models like they did with the first one.
You're probably right. Revenue streams are not kind to old models.

My hope (and assumption) is that they'll upgrade the unit as wireless technology changes, not as camera models change. But in the case of this 1Ds3, it has a new connection form factor to accomodate locking the WFT unit to the camera.
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phila
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« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2007, 07:41:25 AM »
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Well spent an enjoyable few hours this evening at the opening of the new premisses of my pro photo dealer of choice.

Was able to have a brief handle (fondle?) of the only 1Ds MkIII in the country (in fact I was informed I was the first to fire a shot with it as it had only been unpacked scant seconds before). My first impression was how big the viewfinder is. Considerably bigger than the MkII or 5D. The 14mm II was very solid and obviously gave a fantastic field of view. This was a pre-production sample and had no card fitted, so no actual images were taken but I was told to expect demo bodies in about 4 weeks so will do a few comparison pics with the lenses I want to test then.

So I then wondered down and had a play with the Leaf AFi pre production body! Beautifully put together and wonderfully ergonomic. The swivelling grip is a masterstroke! The auto focus is usefully fast. The only awkward thing I noticed was that the battery on the 75S back protruded well below the base of the body, so it couldn't sit flat.

Sorry I can't report any on any details of note like file quality etc etc but it wasn't possible at this occasion. Still it was a pretty interesting night.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 07:42:05 AM by phila » Logged

Craig Lamson
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« Reply #67 on: August 24, 2007, 06:43:21 AM »
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Actually, all of this is a ploy; I'm just trying to build up the hype around the "much better" Phase/Contax solution, and then, come early December, dump them all and buy a couple of IDsIII bodies, and make my life easy again. So play along with me, won't you?


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ok Mark, I'll play.   Here' the deal and you touched on it as I did.  Nothings perfect but you have to buys something.  As I stated in the initial post everyone's mileage will vary.  Your needs are totally different than mine.  I'm just some hick from nowhere Indiana who shoots boats and RV's mostly in my studio but sometimes on location or in action situations.  FOR ME the current 1Ds works pretty good, much better than the original 1Ds, the Nikon D100 I had before it and the Betterlight back before that.  Is it a perfect tool, nope, Does it cover most of my bases? Yes.  When I have big day the studo I might make 4-5 images and save 20 frames.

When I purchased it I voted with my pocketbook.  Despite the faults it was the best choice for me.  

Your needs are quite different. You work high pressure location shoots with AD's over your shoulder and when things screw up you look bad.  I understand that.  But you voted with your pocketbook and ended up with your Contax/Phase system.  Faults and all it serves your needs better than anything else at the moment.  

So all of that brings us to the new Canon.  My point is that bitching now, no matter how much fun it can be is really counter productive...at this point.  The camera is set in stone, it's what it is going to be.  Going DPrewiew on it changes nothing.  Oh I can understand the need to vent at Canon becuase they did get lots of great feedback from the people who earn a living using their cameras.  But Canon ( like most companies ) is going to build what they want to build.  None of the complaining really changed anything.  You think it got us a usb connector instead of the 4pin. I disagree.  I don't think we had anything to do with it.  In my opinion Canon simply brought the MKIII into line with the rest of their cameras by going to USB.  Firewire is a dying system.... just look at the new Nikon D3.

Canon in their wisdom, or lack of it depending on where you sit, made a camera that covers a lot of ground.  You are willing for example to give up frame rate.   I sometimes need the framerate, like when I'm shooting boats from a helicopter. Everyones mileage will vary.

Now the New Canon looks to be a nice piece, but I think I'm going to vote with my pocketbook and pass.  I'm stepping off the upgrade bus for a while because I'm really tired of buying new cameras, new computers and new software. I plan on keeping my life simple...I'm not spending any more time ( for the near term) learning new stuff.  I'm just going to make images.  

[/rant off.]

BTW, I really do admire the work that you do.  Your pocketbook voting (lots of it...bless you) has been very instructional.  Thanks for sharing the results.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 06:46:03 AM by infocusinc » Logged

Craig Lamson Photo
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Mark_Tucker
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« Reply #68 on: August 24, 2007, 09:40:53 AM »
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I'm stepping off the upgrade bus for a while because I'm really tired of buying new cameras, new computers and new software. I plan on keeping my life simple...I'm not spending any more time ( for the near term) learning new stuff.  I'm just going to make images.

Now, right there are words of wisdom. Many of the people that I compare notes with are over the intitial craziness of all this transition, and now, they too want their life back.

There are a million factors in choice. Most of them due to shooting style. That's why, clearly, there is no one "best camera system".

Time will tell how good the new Canon is. If I was a betting man, I'd say it will turn out to be pretty good. Did I want a Canon version of a Medium Format camera, instead of just another revision in the Mark whatever series? Absolutely, yes. But it didn't happen. Canon is a 35 mindset, and that's probably not going to change.

All I want is for the USB or FW, or whatever, to not fall out of the side of the camera while I'm shooting. That's not too much to ask. It needs to lock in there, (and ideally, not with duct tape). I remember, years and years ago, Nikon used to make this "threaded sync cord" that would literally SCREW INTO THE BODY. That's what we need for tethering. Give it a "quick release" in the middle of the cable f you want, in case a makeup artist trips over the cord, similar to the MagSafe adaptor in the MacBook, but at least let it screw into the body and LOCK.

I'm just jealous because the Canon is so easy to use, and so easy to hit good color. The Phase is like that Seinfeld episode, where Jerry was dating that girl that looked good in some light, but looked awful in other light. If you're shooting Phase with strobe, it rocks. But if you get out in crazy ambient conditions, you can have some color crossovers and bleeds, to fight. The Canon is just "pretty brown skin tones". But I'm a mediumformat guy; not a 35 guy; thus, I complain.
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Craig Lamson
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« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2007, 12:13:49 PM »
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But I'm a mediumformat guy; not a 35 guy; thus, I complain.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135261\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 Imagine my shock at shooting everything with a 35mm camera after years and years of shooting mostly 4x5 and 8x10...oh sure there was some Hassy stuff for the postages stamp sized feature shots...but the bulk was from a really big camera.  So I feel some of your pain.

Sometimes I think we are all getting lost in this digital crap. We think it's making our life hard and we forget the crap we used to put up with.  Remember those tiny polaroids?  Taking boxes of film to the lab ... running clips....WAITING to see the outcome?  Delivering film and HOPING the agency would fix in retouching all the things that could not be fixed on set?  Or just retouching in general pre-computer.  No auto focus...let alone 45 points.  Working under a darkcloth on a 90 degree sunny day?  A "buffer depth" of 24 frames?  The list goes on and on.

For all the crap and all the time we now spend in front of a computer screen I don't every want to go back.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 12:16:28 PM by infocusinc » Logged

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ronno
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« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2007, 12:56:21 PM »
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For all the crap and all the time we now spend in front of a computer screen I don't every want to go back.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I too think let me off this upgrade train.

But then I think about it, and I can't complain too much when the files do get easier to work with, better colors, larger viewfinders, more dynamic range, etc. as the upgrades go marching by.

And I agree, we put up with much less crap now than back in the film days.

But I find I am shooting more and more polaroid, just for kicks, when the shoots finish. And that's when everyone on the crew really comes to life. Comparably, watching the shots go by on the LCD is a snooze.

[a href=\"http://www.ronpurdy.com/polaroids1/polaroids1.html]http://www.ronpurdy.com/polaroids1/polaroids1.html[/url]
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« Reply #71 on: August 24, 2007, 05:34:15 PM »
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For all the crap and all the time we now spend in front of a computer screen I don't every want to go back.
Craig, I agree with your posts here. The digital treadmill is a drag, and some customers don't want to pay fees that reflect the latest technology. (Here's a great read about this conundrum).

I usually leapfrog every software version and even so, am enticed by what the Next Big Camera can provide.

Will I buy into a 1Ds3? Probably, but only if I can get that wireless thingamajiggy to work.  
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« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2007, 05:09:21 AM »
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Canon White Paper now available.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/files/news/pro...-Whitepaper.pdf

The larger VF image area is well shown. Also some VERY interesting details of what the Lens Correction features of DPP entail.

The gauntlet is thrown down to the MF back manuafacturers:

"...Consider, too, the question of continuity, a matter of considerable relevance when the
purchase of an $8,000-or- more camera is on the table. Where the EOS-1Ds MarkIII is
completely compatible with virtually all   vast EOS System, and can be expected to
remain compatible—and supported—for decades to come (note the current software
support for the D6000 and D2000), today’s medium format digital backs often do not fit
even recent products from the same manufacturer. Will a newly-purchased component
be compatible with same-brand software and hardware in the not-too-distant future?
Betting on, and investing in, the EOS-1DsMarkIII isa sure thing."
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ronno
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« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2007, 12:19:41 PM »
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The PDF looks nice, but where is the description of the Highlight Tone priority?? That is, IMO, the most promising feature.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 12:41:52 PM by ronno » Logged
phila
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« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2007, 03:30:03 PM »
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The PDF looks nice, but where is the description of the Highlight Tone priority?? That is, IMO, the most promising feature.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135797\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is the same as in the 1D MkIII AFAIK. Look for the White Paper or reviews on that.
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« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2007, 03:35:52 PM »
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It is the same as in the 1D MkIII AFAIK. Look for the White Paper or reviews on that.
Considering it has comparisons to the 1D MkIII and 1Ds MkII, kind of doubtful, no?
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phila
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« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2007, 04:36:06 AM »
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Considering it has comparisons to the 1D MkIII and 1Ds MkII, kind of doubtful, no?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135834\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No. The comparisons between the 1D MkIII & 1Ds MkIII, which indicate the differences between the two, make no mention of the Highlight Tone function - hence you can only assume there are no differences. And given the common use of 14 bit AD conversion, dual Digic III and DPP why would one expect any difference?
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narikin
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« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2007, 08:12:42 AM »
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can anyone find where you can download DPP 3.2 with its lens abberation correction functions ?
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ronno
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« Reply #78 on: August 28, 2007, 09:30:43 AM »
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It is the same as in the 1D MkIII AFAIK. Look for the White Paper or reviews on that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Anyone know how many extra stops of D.R. we are talking about here?
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francois
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« Reply #79 on: August 28, 2007, 09:37:05 AM »
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Anyone know how many extra stops of D.R. we are talking about here?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
From the white paper (p12):

(…) At low ISO speeds, the dynamic range is about the same as that of the EOS-1Ds Mark II.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 09:38:01 AM by francois » Logged

Francois
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