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Author Topic: z3100ps software update in mid-Sept  (Read 19370 times)
rdonson
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« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2007, 08:08:06 AM »
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Wow, thats interesting, Ron!

How would the Epson Matte softproof with out of garmut warning look like with the same picture?

Anybody who could do a comparison?
Clem
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148987\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can do that, Clem.  Unfortunately the server I use for the images is currently down.  As soon as its restored to health I'll post them.  The only caveat is that I know the profile I created for Epson Enhanced Matte isn't as good as it could be.
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Ron
rdonson
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« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2007, 08:30:29 AM »
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Yes the paper choice is critical for problematic reds for sure.

Did I say that for HP's media the highest gamut media is the High Gloss Contract Proofing? It has a higher gloss than the ID Gloss, no HP logo on it, is thinner and less robust, but the white of the paper is better than ID, and the gamut extraordinary. I sent off a copy of the profile to Joseph Holmes and he returned the gamut volume as being higher by far than Epson and still a fair edge higher than Canon  both on their respective premium papers. So if you want a paper for colour that has no rival, that should have you getting out the sheets in the sample pack. I have an APS profile of HGProof if you need it.

Off topic . Now that I'm obliged to get back to  printing on the 9180, I immediately see the strength in the B&W on the Z. The Z is so neutral, yet brilliant, full of life. The 9180 just doesn't cut it with too much bronzing, coloration. I did cook up a Photoshop curve for printing B&W images via Photoshop handles color, with custom profiles that come closer. Write me if you're interested.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148960\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Neil.  I've been looking at the Contract Proofing paper as a possible choice for inexpensive posters to sell.  Based on your recommendation I guess I'll have to order a roll.  Did you have a chance to use the Satin Contract Proofing paper?  I wonder how that compares.
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Ron
neil snape
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« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2007, 09:16:56 AM »
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Thanks, Neil.  I've been looking at the Contract Proofing paper as a possible choice for inexpensive posters to sell.  Based on your recommendation I guess I'll have to order a roll.  Did you have a chance to use the Satin Contract Proofing paper?  I wonder how that compares.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148994\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They shipped a roll that fell into the cracks somewhere. The stupid delivery service HP France have drivers that ask for a copy your security documents similar to a green card, each and every delivery. After a long drive home, and quite tired the driver insisted for the same copy I reluctantly already made several times before. I tried to comply, but none of the printers wanted to work that day, after being offline a few weeks. He said then he couldn't leave it, thus I told him to talk a walk and never come back. Hence my statement on my review avoid HP's professional delivery service, buy from your local dealer and hopefully you'll not have this outrageous and borderline illegal requirement of supplying secure documents to HP's appointed delivery service. Shame on you HP France, really you deserve to be slapped for this discredit to HP.

So no I didn't get to try it. Knowing the media people though in HP I'm sure, 100% sure it's a very good media too. If I were doing much prepress , I'd hop on this paper fast. I'm not sure that all users are aware , but most all of the new papers are highly optimised for the Vivera pigments. Not only in a small amount but in a way that goes beyond what is required. They even go to the extent of asking many suppliers to do their best to meet the spec and supply test samples before being chosen as the OEM. Any of the defects found in the first shipping Pro Satin for example are the total responsibility of the OEM supplier. I sincerely hope HP continues to strive for better media as all you do too.
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rdonson
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« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2007, 12:54:14 PM »
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Wow, thats interesting, Ron!

How would the Epson Matte softproof with out of garmut warning look like with the same picture?

Anybody who could do a comparison?
Clem
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148987\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Clem,

Same softproofing conditions as before with Epson Enhanced Matte.  Again, once the new firmware and drivers are better understood I'll be creating a new profile for this paper and will likely be better.



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Ron
deelight
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« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2007, 03:37:37 PM »
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Ron,

sorry, but no pictures visible...

Clem
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rdonson
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« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2007, 07:17:42 PM »
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Ron,

sorry, but no pictures visible...

Clem
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Server looks like its down again.  When the server comes back up hopefully the images will be visible.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
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Ron
rdonson
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« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2007, 04:51:27 PM »
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Ron,

sorry, but no pictures visible...

Clem
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149062\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Server's back up and the images are again visible.
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Ron
deelight
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« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2007, 04:19:15 AM »
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Server's back up and the images are again visible.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ron, thank you for the time you spent!

Unfortunately this is not what I thought of: I would have been interested in the Epson version of the garmut warning from an Epson printer on Epson (enhanced) matte paper.

I donīt want to compare the papers on z3100 but the garmut of the printers (on their own papers). Simply see, how much they differ in this real world example. I expect the Epson printers to have a larger garmut of course, after all the hassle with the reds on the z, but how much larger?

Clem
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rdonson
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« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2007, 05:35:30 AM »
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Clem, OK, now I understand.  I don't have any custom profiles for Epson Enhanced Matte on Epson printers.  I do have the EEM profile for my Epson 2200 but that doesn't use the latest K3 inks.

I could show the same softproofing/gamut warning with the stock Epson K3 profiles for EEM.
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Ron
deelight
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« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2007, 04:48:26 PM »
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Clem, OK, now I understand.  I don't have any custom profiles for Epson Enhanced Matte on Epson printers.  I do have the EEM profile for my Epson 2200 but that doesn't use the latest K3 inks.

I could show the same softproofing/gamut warning with the stock Epson K3 profiles for EEM.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149307\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Ron!

I think its better to compare the LFP against each other, isnt it?

Maybe anyone with an Epson K3 LFP could jump in?

Would be an interesting comparison...

Thanks,

Clem
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rdonson
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« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2007, 07:56:50 PM »
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Thanks Ron!

I think its better to compare the LFP against each other, isnt it?

Maybe anyone with an Epson K3 LFP could jump in?

Would be an interesting comparison...

Thanks,

Clem
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OK, yes, but that takes a LOT more than comparing softproofing in Photoshop.  That will take people to use a spectro on the prints themselves and compare D-Max and all that.
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Ron
Jon Abbott
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« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2007, 02:34:54 AM »
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Ron, thank you for the time you spent!

Unfortunately this is not what I thought of: I would have been interested in the Epson version of the garmut warning from an Epson printer on Epson (enhanced) matte paper.

I donīt want to compare the papers on z3100 but the garmut of the printers (on their own papers). Simply see, how much they differ in this real world example. I expect the Epson printers to have a larger garmut of course, after all the hassle with the reds on the z, but how much larger?

Clem
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
We have found that soft proofing with gamut warning on/off in Photoshop is only a rough guide, and does not correspond very accurately with the actual print. It is especially variable if one has not made all the profiles oneself. For some reason when soft proofing using Epson factory stock profiles there appears to be a larger gamut (less clipping) than when using custom profiles made for an Epson or HP z3100 on the same paper (for example, Epson Enhanced Matte), but real printed results are the opposite. We also get visually more saturated and wider gamut prints on EEM from the HP than from the Epson. Incidentally,  EEM was once a standard for its price and availability; but it's time has come and gone. It is now an inferior paper compared to matte papers available for less money. We used tons of it for commercial work and rough proofs, and it was a problematic cost compromise- optical brighteners that fade rapidly, muddy blacks and poor deep color saturation, inability to hold much ink without blocking up details, etc. Maybe z3100 had problems with the first software releases and certain papers; but we keep looking for a "red" problem and all I find are clean colors with incredible saturation. Color inks obviously vary from HP to Epson to Cannon; but paper ink loads (limits), paper receptive coatings, especially the paper color/whiteness, and profiling has a variable effect on color matching and smooth crossovers (in the driver), especially with cmyk+rgb inksets. So maybe some had or are having color problems, but we are getting great results. Try the HP Matte Litho-realistic as a much better economical alternative to EEM, even on an Epson with K3 inks.

Subjectively comparing actual prints from the same file on Epson and HP on matte papers, we prefer the HP prints. We've used Epson for years (two are dedicated to matte black ink), and the prints are wonderful. But the HP is just spectacular, with a much longer archival life. Unfortunately for us this is often a bummer, since we make limited edition archival books; the z3100ps is a pain to load sheets quickly, and there is no HP z3100 equivalent to the Epson 4xxx series for handling sheet material. All our Epson’s load sheet paper better, faster, and more easily.

BTW, APS has been working fine for me with the new firmware and software. I'm now using fmw 6.0.0.7. APS features work the same as with 4.0.0.6. However, when I compare profiles created from the previous firmware with newest (using Profiler Pro Measure tool), I am getting some variation (delta E of .6 to 2.Cool. My older calibrations and profiles were out of date according to the HP printer utility, so that may be a reason. However, something different seems to be going on. For one thing, either more ink is being laid down, or the humidity is higher in the loft, since a regularly used heavy cotton matte fine art paper is now "wetter" and there is a slight paper buckling. It subjectively seems to have better saturation in the deep colors but without detail blocking up. I used this paper only for B&W since it was poor with color, but now it looks better. I am going to redo all paper calibrations and profiles.
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