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Author Topic: MFDB or dSLR?  (Read 12008 times)
Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2007, 10:11:50 AM »
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This is the most pointless and un-usefull test I have ever seen.  Why don't you send us all 100 A4 prints and then we can judge properly.

If you'd actually bothered to read the thread mentioned in the first post, you'd discover that some MFDB shooters were claiming that the difference between MFDB and DSLR was so great that the difference was obvious even in web JPEGs. Testing that claim is the point of the test.

Nobody is disputing that in studio conditions a MFDB is capable of producing a higher-quality file than a DSLR. What's being debated is whether that difference is detectable in web JPEGS.
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JeffVo
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2007, 10:47:42 AM »
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Anybody else want to try my quiz before I provide results?




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My guess   :

#1 A22
#2 MkII
#3 5D
#4 5D
#5 MkII
#6 P45

Correct ??             
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138359\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


OK, I have a slightly less absurd, but still mostly stupid test.  You can have a look at a few shoots I have up on my website (I so need to update with new stuff).

I've used 4 cameras in the Celeb section (loads automatically)  Aptus 22 H1, P45 H1, Canon 5d, Canon 1ds II.  For the most part my shots are F11+  and the crops are either double page or vertical making guessing based on crop a bit tougher.

Yes these are retouched some far more than others.  Each shoot only uses 1 camera.  So you at least have 1 photographers eye the same throughout the photos.  Anybody think they can guess all 6 shoots right?  

My Webpage
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rainer_v
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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2007, 01:40:32 PM »
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Anybody else want to try my quiz before I provide results?
OK, I have a slightly less absurd, but still mostly stupid test.  You can have a look at a few shoots I have up on my website (I so need to update with new stuff).

I've used 4 cameras in the Celeb section (loads automatically)  Aptus 22 H1, P45 H1, Canon 5d, Canon 1ds II.  For the most part my shots are F11+  and the crops are either double page or vertical making guessing based on crop a bit tougher.

Yes these are retouched some far more than others.  Each shoot only uses 1 camera.  So you at least have 1 photographers eye the same throughout the photos.  Anybody think they can guess all 6 shoots right? 

My Webpage
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i let this pass without me.
´d like to see the results .....
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rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
JeffVo
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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2007, 01:58:26 PM »
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It seems no one else wants to play.  But our one contestant did very very well!!!!


His guesses

#1 A22
#2 MkII
#3 5D
#4 5D
#5 MkII
#6 P45

Actual

#1 A22
#2 P45
#3 5d
#4 5d
#5 MK II
#6  A22


HE got 4 out of 6!!  And hes putting exact cameras with photos not just MF or DSLR!!!

IF we go MF/DLSR he got 5 out of 6!!!  83%%

That 67% correct wich i think is amazing, but I also think it shows you can tell!!!!  I know I can.  and its the reason why I chucked the 5D.  





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i let this pass without me.
´d like to see the results .....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2007, 02:09:37 PM »
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It seems no one else wants to play.  But our one contestant did very very well!!!!
His guesses

#1 A22
#2 MkII
#3 5D
#4 5D
#5 MkII
#6 P45

Actual

#1 A22
#2 P45
#3 5d
#4 5d
#5 MK II
#6  A22
HE got 4 out of 6!!  And hes putting exact cameras with photos not just MF or DSLR!!!




IF we go MF/DLSR he got 5 out of 6!!!  83%%

That 67% correct wich i think is amazing, but I also think it shows you can tell!!!!  I know I can.  and its the reason why I chucked the 5D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138474\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


And here comes the fun part:
I have 20% eyesight on one eye and 60% on the other. Not a joke!

What would a not so blind photographer manage  

Long live the MFDB!!!!
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Willow Photography
jpjespersen
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« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2007, 02:26:20 PM »
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If you'd actually bothered to read the thread mentioned in the first post, you'd discover that some MFDB shooters were claiming that the difference between MFDB and DSLR was so great that the difference was obvious even in web JPEGs. Testing that claim is the point of the test.

Nobody is disputing that in studio conditions a MFDB is capable of producing a higher-quality file than a DSLR. What's being debated is whether that difference is detectable in web JPEGS.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Sorry, I actually work and don't have all day to read through the threads.  I can't beleive that anyone would think that web jpegs from any camera are going to be telling of the camera.
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2007, 02:39:02 PM »
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Sorry, I actually work and don't have all day to read through the threads.  I can't beleive that anyone would think that web jpegs from any camera are going to be telling of the camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Didnt I just prove you wrong?  
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Willow Photography
feppe
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« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2007, 02:41:25 PM »
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Didnt I just prove you wrong? 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138486\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not with a sample size of one (1).
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jpjespersen
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« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2007, 02:57:53 PM »
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Didnt I just prove you wrong? 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138486\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No you didnt, because anyone could have cheated on that test or been lucky.  If they were all of the exact same subject matter, the test would be much more scientific.  This is all ridiculous.  I refuse to post anymore.  We are running in circles.
I don't do work for web publishing,  it is all for print, so this test is useless for my kind of work.  It may apply to some people however.
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2007, 03:13:16 PM »
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No you didnt, because anyone could have cheated on that test or been lucky.  If they were all of the exact same subject matter, the test would be much more scientific.  This is all ridiculous.  I refuse to post anymore.  We are running in circles.
I don't do work for web publishing,  it is all for print, so this test is useless for my kind of work.  It may apply to some people however.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138488\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


First of all - I did not cheat.
Second - I may have been lucky, but I tried my best.
Third - I do not think people, who have made up their mind already,
will believe any outcome of any test that does not comply with what
they already "know" is the "truth".

I have a P30+ and a 5D.
I have had a 1Ds and a 1Ds Mk II.

I know it is a big difference on my screen between the P30+ and the 5D.
I know it is not that big on magazine paper.
And I do not care, because I love what I see on my screen and
how much more easy it is to work with P30+ files contra 5D files.

I feel happy when I look at a MFDB file and frustrated when I look at a DSLR file.

But thats only me.


Work with what you love/like and get you inspired to make
the very best pictures you can produce.
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Willow Photography
feppe
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« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2007, 12:32:32 PM »
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Ok, here are the results:


Total of 122 people responded (completed the quiz)
1/3 of respondents with 20+ years of photography experience
1/2 with 5-20 years
70% professionals
28% with 2+ years MFDB experience


100 shots, 50 MFDB and 50 dSLR
overall success rate: 56,52%. Please note that this means that with a strong (75+%) confidence we can not reject the possibility that respondents were guessing (50% success rate). In English: the respondents are no better at picking MFDB shots based on web-size JPEGs than by guessing.


Perhaps the most interesting part for most people follows.

These shots were overwhelmingly (75+%) voted to be dSLR shots, but were actually shot with a MFDB:
Shot #02, Shot #17, #44,  #94.

These shots were overwhelmingly (75+%) voted to be MFDB shots, but were actually shot with a dSLR:

#22, #35,  #43, #98.


And those who want all the details: Overall quiz report (WARNING: this page has each and every JPEG in one huge page, for a total of 15 megs or so)

These shots are MFDB:
1 2 8 9 13 15 16 17 20 24 25 26 27 29 30 32 33 34 37 38 40 44 47 48 51 53 54 56 59 62 63 64 65 67 70 71 75 77 78 79 82 84 85 89 90 94 95 99 100 101

These shots are dSLR:
3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 14 18 19 21 22 23 28 31 35 36 39 41 42 43 45 46 49 50 52 55 57 58 60 61 66 68 69 72 73 74 76 80 81 83 86 87 91 92 93 96 97 98

To figure out the # of the shot, it's the 2 digits after photo_id in the full path, bolded below:
http://harrijahkola.exposuremanager.com/sc...photo&photo_id=0823&file=08_medium.jpg&dir=galleries/19

Unfortunately it appears that SurveyGizmo doesn't allow for any cross-referencing of data. It doesn't even give out results by responder, only by question #. I even had to do all the above calcs manually, although it's supposed to support quizzes. I guess you get what you pay for: the service is free.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 12:38:03 PM by feppe » Logged

sundstei
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« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2007, 01:49:17 PM »
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These shots are MFDB:
1 2 8 9 13 15 16 17 20 24 25 26 27 29 30 32 33 34 37 38 40 44 47 48 51 53 54 56 59 62 63 64 65 67 70 71 75 77 78 79 82 84 85 89 90 94 95 99 100 101


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138675\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Are you sure these are all shot with digital backs? Several look very much like film...
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feppe
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« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2007, 02:00:00 PM »
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Are you sure these are all shot with digital backs? Several look very much like film...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138694\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Somebody else can set up the quiz for film vs digital debate

There could very well be film shots. I relied entirely on what the photographer reported. If they said it was digital, it's digital.
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