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Author Topic: Camera to Print - Printing, Photokit, LR and Epson  (Read 3242 times)
jsmpsn
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« on: September 12, 2007, 02:29:23 AM »
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I'd like to make a suggestion about some content in the video that
needs to be clarified. Perhaps you could put up a small article or
screenshot video.

Jeff Schewe rightly mentions the use of just one master file ("the new
way of working"), and prepping it for output (targetting it) as needed
using a file with a natural resolution between 180 and 480 ppi.

I'm clear on the concepts; however, there are two issues that, to my
mind, weren't clear in the video:

Sharpening (using Photokit Output Sharpener ) for this master file. Do
I need to sharpen a different version for each output size before
printing (i.e., say if I want to print an 8x10, 4x5, etc) at different
resolutions (not resampling the native resolution, but simply changing
the image size in Photoshop)? Since Photokit Output Sharpener wants to
know the final image size, I take it this is necessary, requiring
multiple copies of the image with different output sharpening for
different output sizes.

This leads me to my next question: If you want to prepare everything
in Photoshop (sharpening) and then print from Lightroom what is the
optimal way to do this if the output file size is going to vary? Say I
want to fill a page with varies sizes of the same or different images.
I am assuming that I don't want to use Lightroom's output sharpening
(and I understand that I should turn off the resolution/interpolation
option in Lightroom), but how should these images be prepared in
Photoshop with Photokit Output Sharpener if the final print sizes of
the file will vary when printed in Lightroom. Obviously I could do
this on an individual basis in Photoshop, but would like to take
advantage of Lightroom's superior printing (assuming I do the
soft-proofing and corrections in Photoshop previously).

I really think the video deals with individual steps nicely but didn't
bring it all together in a summary to show what an optimum workflow
would be assuming that most users would be using:

Lightroom
Photoshop
Photokit Output Sharpener

My other question regards printing with an Epson printer (R2400) from
Windows and Photoshop CS3. Namely, the output will vary (colors,
tonality) even when you use Photoshop to Manage the colors, depending
on your Working RGB. I find I have more difficulties printing
correctly to the Epson with a ProPhoto Working Space versus setting it
to sRGB or Adobe RGB even if the embedded profile is ProPhoto. In
fact, the most consistent (best) method seems to be to use sRGB as the
Working Space and Convert to Profile using the Epson Paper/Ink profile
and turning all management off in Photoshop and the printer driver.

It's easy enough to test by taking the same image and trying the two
or three Working Spaces. Sometimes the ProPhoto results are simply
terrible. I would expect the output to be very similar if the image
retained the same color profile throughout.

Maybe Jeff Schewe could answer this one because it seems to be an
Epson/Photoshop specific issue.

In general I enjoyed the video. I think an overall summary workflow
video with just screenshots would be useful to everyone though.

Regards,


Jeff
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Josh-H
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 06:53:29 AM »
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Quote
Sharpening (using Photokit Output Sharpener ) for this master file. Do
I need to sharpen a different version for each output size before
printing (i.e., say if I want to print an 8x10, 4x5, etc) at different
resolutions (not resampling the native resolution, but simply changing
the image size in Photoshop)? Since Photokit Output Sharpener wants to
know the final image size, I take it this is necessary, requiring
multiple copies of the image with different output sharpening for
different output sizes.

I'll have a go at this one.

What Jeff actually says [from memory!] is that unless you need to do any sifnificant uprezing [and you really dont need to unless your DPI falls below about 240 DPI based on your image print size] that you are far better off just sending the files native pixels to the printer. This being the case if you have processed your file at say 350 DPI then there is no need to re-size it. Just send the native pixels at 350 DPI to the printer. Thus sharpen with Photokit sharpen at 360 DPI output.

Photokit output sharpen wants to know the final DPI size - not what size the paper you are printing to necessarily is. So sharpen to your images DPI and then send the native pixels to the printer.

Unless you have specific need to change the DPI size of the image there is no need to keep multiple versions. Just keep one master file, which is capture sharpened and creative sharpened. Then simply output sharpen based in the images DPI and send to the printer.

I will often still end up with multiple output sharpened files of the same image that have been tweaked to suit different papers. E.g: I  reccently printed a portrait of my son on two very different papers that needed very different tweaks during soft proof. I saved and kept both versions.

The above is my understandinng and has been my workflow.

I havent addressed your second question as I dont print from LR - I print from CS3.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 07:13:06 AM by JHolko » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 08:46:34 AM »
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In a nutshell, capture sharpening is based on the pixel density (resolution) of the master. So that's easy.

Output sharpening is based on the output resolution. You don't need to resample the image in nearly all cases. Figure out the size you want your print. If the output rez falls between 180ppi and 480ppi, send that amount to the printer to print the size you wish from the pixels you have. Output sharpen based on that (just tell Photoshop that of you X number of pixels, you want it to represent them such that you get a physical size on the page). You will need to upsample if you don't have enough pixels to make the print size you want lower than the 180ppi setting. You have to make up pixels. Of you have a huge high rez file and maybe you're making a small print and the resolution goes above 480ppi. Otherwise, leave the pixel density alone, don't add or remove pixels. Tell Photoshop how you wish to divide up the pixels you currently have pre inch based on the print size you want.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
John77
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2007, 09:17:31 AM »
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Output sharpening is based on the output resolution. You don't need to resample the image in nearly all cases.
This is what I understand also with the (great) video tutorial.

But I have read also elsewhere that the printer (every ?) will use nearest neighbor to resample picture to the printer native resolution. Is this true and/or optimal? I suppose that's why other people advices to resample with PS to the printer native resolution.

I am really interested in fully understanding printer needs as with my 6MP DSLR I have not so much pixel to print without resampling, particularly when pictures are cropped.

In my case, I am using an HP B9180, so 300-600ppi.

Thank you for your advice.
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