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Author Topic: Canon vs Phase  (Read 43470 times)
JeffVo
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« on: September 17, 2007, 02:21:41 PM »
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Just thought I'd shoot a quick comparison between Phase vs Canon as there has been so much talk about it as of late.  I wont say which Canon or Phase these shots are taken with (can you guess).  Phase was H2 100mm 2.2   Canon 85 1.2.  Both about the same exposure.  One was at F12 the other F13 at 1/160.  Processed in Phase One.    I wouldn't use either image as is, but wanted to leave them at mostly the same settings for comparison sake.   Resized down.   Not exacting in anyway, but you get the idea.  Is it clear what was shot with what?

[attachment=3289:attachment]
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 02:22:00 PM by JeffVo » Logged
Mark_Tucker
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 02:35:48 PM »
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Is it clear what was shot with what?

[attachment=3289:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139996\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd probably guess that the Phase file was on the right, since you see the Hasselblad mirror slap in the ambient area on his nose, and his face was, I assume, strobed.

But who knows. Very hard to tell, at all, or worse, when rezzed down, (or worse, when the metadata has been stripped out!)

What input profiles did you use on each camera, inside of CaptureOne? That alone will make a massive difference in color rendition. The Input Profile is as important, if not moreso, than the brand and type of camera. The first thing you look for is the red around the eyes and the red in the lips.

The left file feels like Canon color too, and feels like the slight wompiness of the 85, when you stick it right in somebody's face, tight. The right frame feels like the flatter-feeling 100.

I'll be the first to stick my neck out, and risk being wrong. Hell, he probably shot them both with a Canon Rebel, and processed them differently...
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 02:55:11 PM by Mark_Tucker » Logged
Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 02:42:52 PM »
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The file on the left has lower contrast, but a simple levels adjustment to set the black point of both to 0,0,0 would make them match pretty close. The image on the left is also just a hair softer, but well within the range of what can be sharpened well. A few minor tweaks to the RAW conversion settings, and distinguishing them would be really tough. The only concrete difference is the horizontal-motion-blurred look of the highlights on the nose in the right image that is completely absent on the left. It looks really out of place.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 02:50:30 PM by Jonathan Wienke » Logged

Dustbak
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 02:44:21 PM »
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From what I am seeing here I would say the right file is the PhaseOne.
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ronno
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2007, 02:44:39 PM »
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Not sure which is which, but the one on the left looks less sharp, and it's highlights seen to be closer to burning out on the lips. Also, the left one shows some of that trademark purple fringing in the highlight in the eye, so I'm with Mark, Canon on the left.

Wow, if that nose blur in the image on the right is due to the H1/2/3 mirror slap that everyone has been talking about, then that's pretty serious. Ouch!

By the way, how many megapixels on the H2?

If what we are seeing here is 100% zoom view, then we are looking at a small portion of what is effectively a 6 or 8 foot high print (as rendered on our 72dpi monitors, right?) In which case, good luck telling them apart on a print.

Still, you'd probably have an easier time telling cameras apart with a landscape or such, where there is really small and distant detail to render.

Thanks for the test shots.

-ron
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 03:09:23 PM by ronno » Logged
samuel_js
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2007, 03:40:42 PM »
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Here we go again...   There's nothing wrong with the mirror in the H2. Most of what you see is in the hands of the photographer (no offense). 1/60 won't give you the sharpest pictures anyway.
I put a simple example here:
- H2 with P21 (18Mpx).
- Handeld, f5.6 1/125 ISO 100.
- Hasselblad HC 210mm (a big one...). Please, note that this lens are sharpest at f8-f11, not f5.6.
- No flash.
- Processed in Capture One with very little sharpening.
- No adjustements, almost out of the box.
- Compressed web jpegs...

« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 03:49:16 PM by samuel_js » Logged
eronald
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2007, 03:56:29 PM »
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Samuel, I think you need one of my profiles, and a camera different from an H series

The color there looks really strange.

Edmund
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Colorwave
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2007, 04:14:15 PM »
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Nobody seems to have commented on the differences in the texture of the dark fabric in the lower right.  I see much more color noise on the image in the left, and assume that it is the Canon, but . . . ?
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samuel_js
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2007, 04:16:54 PM »
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Samuel, I think you need one of my profiles, and a camera different from an H series

The color there looks really strange.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As I wrote, the picture is not retouched. I took it today in the afternoon...  I don't see it so bad anyway...
About the profiles, I'll be glad to send you a few files.
What makes you say I need another camera?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 04:18:29 PM by samuel_js » Logged
rainer_v
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2007, 04:26:11 PM »
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Nobody seems to have commented on the differences in the texture of the dark fabric in the lower right.  I see much more color noise on the image in the left, and assume that it is the Canon, but . . . ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140018\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

and i would not be surprised if the phase was the left one. i see some magenta discoloration in the black fabrics, which could be caused by color moiré for nor having AA filter. could be also my monitor. i just see it on may laptop monitor.
but i agree. it does not make too much sense this 1:1 comparisions here in the web. in my field of work ( architecture ) the quality difference is clear under normal circumstances.... so i can be happy that i dont have to go so deep in this comparisions, because the things are clear.

-edit-seeing it now on better monitor i think also the right one has to be the phase file for not having noise , the left one has ...
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 05:30:45 PM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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SeanPuckett
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2007, 04:49:43 PM »
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Phase on the right.  The image on the left looks like it was shot through a lens right at the limit of its resolving power.  The image on the right seems to have resolution to spare.  The colour on the left looks more "honest" which suggests Canon also (ahem). Point being, I'd be happier printing the image on the right at 30x40 than the image on the left.

... and now is where you tell me I have it wrong.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2007, 04:55:16 PM »
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The image on the right is significantly better in terms of detail, so I assume that's the Phase.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
gehle
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2007, 05:23:56 PM »
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The image on the right is significantly better in terms of detail,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140029\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Significantly?

I would say a bit better but saying "significantly" is pushing it.

Just my .02

Ken Gehle
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 05:25:46 PM by gehle » Logged
psp
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2007, 05:32:36 PM »
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Significantly?

I would say a bit better but saying "significantly" is pushing it.

Just my .02

Ken Gehle
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140041\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Spoken like a true small-format owner....

;-)
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ericstaud
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2007, 05:41:28 PM »
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Just thought I'd shoot a quick comparison between Phase vs Canon as there has been so much talk about it as of late.  I wont say which Canon or Phase these shots are taken with (can you guess).  Phase was H2 100mm 2.2   Canon 85 1.2.  Both about the same exposure.  One was at F12 the other F13 at 1/160.  Processed in Phase One.    I wouldn't use either image as is, but wanted to leave them at mostly the same settings for comparison sake.   Resized down.   Not exacting in anyway, but you get the idea.  Is it clear what was shot with what?

[attachment=3289:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139996\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why resize down?  You are eliminating one of the important advantages of the MFDB?  Why not process both to the 20"x30" at 300dpi and see which one holds up?  My D2x looks like crap when compared to the P45, a soft mushy mess.  If I size both images down to 5x7 inches at 300dpi, it is hard to see the difference though.  It is luminous landscape after all.  Sharp eyelashes are sort of a parlor trick for clients.  Get outside and shoot a field of grass and watch the Canon turn it to mush.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2007, 05:43:05 PM »
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I see a black line running along, between the cheek/jaw line and sweater in the left picture.
This tells me, that perhaps this pic has more sharpening or some, while the other one has les sharpening or none at all. I have no guess whicj is which, since I don't own a dmf.
The right pic is definetely sharper and with better color.

Eduardo
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espressogeek
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2007, 06:06:38 PM »
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It would be nice if the eyes were visible in both shots or if you were shooting a static subject. I agree with the other poster that you should uprez the smaller of the two and give us a 100 percent crop so that we can see the difference if any.
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gehle
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2007, 06:31:52 PM »
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Spoken like a true small-format owner....

;-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140047\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My comment is about the statement, not the format.

Ken Gehle
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 02:06:51 PM by gehle » Logged
psp
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2007, 06:57:43 PM »
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My comment is about the statement, not the format.

I use the format that gets the job done. Why don't you google my name to find out who & what I shoot. And all of the awards that come with my work.

Ken Gehle
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140061\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Easy Ken... I'm on your side here.... that smiley, winking face is there to show that I'm just teasing....

Cheers!
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Caracalla
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2007, 07:09:32 PM »
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Just thought I'd shoot a quick comparison between Phase vs Canon as there has been so much talk about it as of late.  I wont say which Canon or Phase these shots are taken with (can you guess).  Phase was H2 100mm 2.2   Canon 85 1.2.  Both about the same exposure.  One was at F12 the other F13 at 1/160.  Processed in Phase One.    I wouldn't use either image as is, but wanted to leave them at mostly the same settings for comparison sake.   Resized down.   Not exacting in anyway, but you get the idea.  Is it clear what was shot with what?

[attachment=3289:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139996\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I assume you intentionally processed the image on the right to look like Canon 1Ds MkII straight from the box "More RED looking" So all I can say is, nice try!!!

Anyhow, if I am wrong and the image on the right happens to be Canon, than good for all of us but I doubt it.

When the game is over, don't forget to mention Phase model P20, P21, P30, P45 etc.

Your title of the thread should have been:

                               [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']   35mm Dollar vs MF Dollar & Let the Games Begin[/span]

So we can keep throwing more examples..............
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