Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: New Hasselblad back  (Read 20156 times)
Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2007, 07:02:39 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Really?? Where?? I know of a 50mm, 80mm, 150mm, 180mm and 60-140mm zoom. They're listed in the 6008AF brochure. Rollei 6008AF PDF

Hy6 literature that I've seen never mention any lenses.

I must be missing something. I'd like to look at the rest of the autofocus Hy6 lens line, if you'd be kind enough to point me towards them.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140620\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Hy6 will take any lens, AF or MF, that works with the 6008AF. The lens mount is not new. Schneider is bringing out a range of improved AF 'digital' lenses too. Hard to imagine they will be much better than the existing models.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 07:18:20 AM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
SecondFocus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 463


WWW
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2007, 08:01:26 AM »
ReplyReply

The new H3D was introduced yesterday at the Hasselblad Pro Tour in Santa Monica (L.A.). Very impressive ideas for using the GPS metadata with Google Earth. And the new 3 inch screen is very impressive.

Also there will be new RAW  software now called "Phocus which was also demo'd.
Logged

Ian L. Sitren
SecondFocus
hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 729


WWW
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2007, 10:34:22 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Now I don't normally reply on the MF board but I do my fair share of lurking... I must say TechTalk, you come across as disingenuous. It's almost as if your being paid by HasselBlad to take up for them. I have never seen a poster/photographer take up for a maker with as much zest as you have. Your subtle/not-so-subtle attacks on those who disagree with your idolation is bringing the level of quality discussion down a notch.
Which is rather disheartening for us peeking over the MFDB fence. I think we all want the best out of our equipment and as such take time out of our schedules to congregate on these types of forums.

That said, guys keep up the conversation, as I will now recuse myself from this particular debate.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140766\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I completely disagree. I think the guy, whoever he is, has been rational, balanced and FACTUAL in his comments. I don't see it as a defense of Hasselblad. He just rejects  "opinions" about Hasselblad and its products  that are rants disguised as factual observations and is calling out those who do it.  In all candor, I think what is troubling you is that it is Hasselblad for whom he is setting the record straight. I am sure you have lots of company.
Logged

pss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 960


WWW
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2007, 12:00:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I think he was responding to one particular person, rather than "pushing" Hasselblad. I won't name the person but he's pretty easy to spot. Simply look at almost any post about Hasselblad and he's there, almost the next post, saying something negative. Seems like a personal crusade by that guy rather than objective/constructive criticism. I must admit, it annoys me a lot too.

I'm all for having a go at manufacturers when they deserve it, in fact I had a go at H myself when they messed up a demo for me of the H3D, was about to buy with the cash arranged but was so annoyed I "politely declined". Posted here and got a huge, positive response and I know H were aware of it. Serves them right and hopefully they will tighten up in that area.

But IMO Hasselblad are trying, within the constraints of a narrow user base and high material costs, to be innovative. Their distortion correction software actually works, every time. Flexcolor, although its GUI is awful, also works well and has many good features. H were the first (I think) with a 28mm lens for MFDB and it's a good lens. They also seem to be responsive to user requests - unlike Phase. Michael was annoyed when they went for the closed system - I would have been too - but if they only do that once, and if the benefits are tangible, then maybe that's just about ok. Do it a second time and I imagine that would be curtains, deservedly so.

I'm not a Hasselblad owner though I might be fairly soon. Equally, I might go the Mamiya/Phase, or some other route. Because I'm still fence-sitting I also enjoy the conversation and hope they continue but I also hope personal crusades, for whatever product, are seen to be that and dismissed as worthless.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


i am just assuming he was referring to me....
i don not have a personal crusade against hasselblad...i have owned and used my fair share of their product and i am sharing my opinions....

just like i don't have any stake in praising systems i like and like to work with at this moment....this is a forum  for sharing experiences and opinions and i am sharing mine....
i have my name, website, even phone number next to my posts....and i have been attacked much more viciously here because of my opinions then i would attack one brand or another...we all have different ways of shooting and we all work differently....

one of the regulars here just posted that he is giving up DMF for DSLR...good for him...less weight to carry, much less hassle....and working AF.....
i just sold my M645 and use the RZ exclusively now, because that is what i like and that is how i work....personal opinion....

someone coming here and making his first posts under "techtalk" praising the latest hasselblad and going on to take the time to defend "ultra focus" seems to me like reading a brochure that sells you the "best dslr"...take it with a grain of salt....we are all sharing opinions and if you read mine, check out my work, and you can look at that opinion with that information and base your own opinion on that.....
Logged

izaack
Guest
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2007, 12:41:46 PM »
ReplyReply

I must be missing something here, Paul, but didn't you just form an opinion albeit negative by reading the same brochure? It certainly did not stop you from venturing an opinion seeing that you have not even handled it yet.  So why take techtalk to task?

Just as you questioned how techtalk knew it to be 'good', how do you know that it is 'bad'? How can anybody venture an opinion on something that he has not handled?

Remember: Rational, Balanced, FACTUAL. If you cannot be all that, may I humbly suggest it is best not to venture anything.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 12:45:58 PM by izaack » Logged
bwpuk
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


WWW
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2007, 12:51:23 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I completely disagree. I think the guy, whoever he is, has been rational, balanced and FACTUAL in his comments. I don't see it as a defense of Hasselblad. He just rejects  "opinions" about Hasselblad and its products  that are rants disguised as factual observations and is calling out those who do it.  In all candor, I think what is troubling you is that it is Hasselblad for whom he is setting the record straight. I am sure you have lots of company.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140977\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think people are getting rants mixed up with strong opinions. How can we know if people are giving us the facts when they hide behind an alias. Hasselblad themselves should come out of the closet and rebut any criticisms of their products or actions. Thierry and Yair do this on a regular basis on this forum for Sinar and Leaf, and win a great deal of admiration from me for taking much flak from all and sundry on occasions.

Once again I personally would much prefer to hear the strong opinion from a working pro at the top of his game. These guys shoot with this gear day in and day out. They are the ones that know if it functions as it should, as we are told it does when we buy the stuff in the first place.

Barrie Watts
Logged

hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 729


WWW
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2007, 01:25:19 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I think people are getting rants mixed up with strong opinions. How can we know if people are giving us the facts when they hide behind an alias. Hasselblad themselves should come out of the closet and rebut any criticisms of their products or actions. Thierry and Yair do this on a regular basis on this forum for Sinar and Leaf, and win a great deal of admiration from me for taking much flak from all and sundry on occasions.

Once again I personally would much prefer to hear the strong opinion from a working pro at the top of his game. These guys shoot with this gear day in and day out. They are the ones that know if it functions as it should, as we are told it does when we buy the stuff in the first place.

Barrie Watts
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141018\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Please, it's not that difficult to differentiate between a strong opinion and a rant. How about describing "Ultra-Focus" as pure marketing BS when you haven't spent 5 seconds to understand it and assess the merits of the concept on any sort of objective basis. I am not a mechanical engineer and had no idea what it was all about till Nick T explained it. If one take's the time to understand something and truly test out it's validity, or at least question its validity on some sort of objective basis, fine. You want to question whether the Digital APO Correction in Flexcolor is effective or marketing BS, good, go test it with the Hassy 28mm lens and let me know. While you are at it, please test the Mamiya 28mm lens and see how it compares at almost twice the price. OTOH, lobbing in gratuitous, sniping comments in a thread about the new features in the H3D-II is out-of-place and does not add one cent to the advancement of our collective knowledge. That it is coming from a working pro who has useful views about those things he does work with on a regular basis is no defense.
Logged

PatrikR
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 116


WWW
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2007, 01:36:54 PM »
ReplyReply

When Hasselblad realized they couldn't get a full frame sensor they decided to change the rules and came up with a new viewfinder. Wonderfull idea. It's like putting 20 inch alloys on a ride to make it into a much better car. Thus the slogan World's best DSLR.

Digital backs are professional product not iPods, and they need their serious marketing. But maybe we forumists are all wrong. We are obviously rather enlightened users not to buy into Hassie marketing bs. But maybe others aren't. Maybe most of their clients really believe what they say, meaning it's not so sure everybody nows how big the sensors are or even care. This makes me wondering that maybe the UltraFocus is their 22 inch alloys. It makes H3D2 look so much cooler. UltraFocus sounds so utterly cool that it makes me think of things like ultra clean... Tide!

But I do hope that Phase One wont enter the feature war. So do I hope for Sinar. The best thing in my Phase One P45+ is it's useability. It's UltraSimple design is amazing and the back works day in day out. Just a super tool for me. I don't care for bells and whistles all I need is simple userface both from camera and software and reliability. This ofcourse does not mean any other brand is not reliable.

Maybe the true innovation is to understand the user. Maybe they all understand their users thus giving us so many choices. But I must say that when Hassie pulled the rug underneath many of their H1 clients that was a nasty thing. Ofcourse H2 will be around and will work for years like Contax does but to close users out from future development who have invested in their expensive system is absolutely discusting.

Patrik
Logged

Patrik Raski - Espoo, Finland
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5129


« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2007, 01:58:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Hasselblad ... came up with a new viewfinder. Wonderfull idea. It's like putting 20 inch alloys on a ride to make it into a much better car.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No, it doing what every decent DSLR does: making the best use possible of the VF image size by not having irrelevant stuff around the edges that does not get recorded by the camera. As a result, the size of the relevant image is larger that of the corresponding crop within the VF that one has to deal with on every other DMF option except the Mamiya ZD.

Remember, the VF magnification is higher in the 48x36 VF than the 645 VF, to give the same total image size; it is not just masking off the rest of the frame.
Logged
bwpuk
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


WWW
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2007, 02:16:24 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Please, it's not that difficult to differentiate between a strong opinion and a rant. How about describing "Ultra-Focus" as pure marketing BS when you haven't spent 5 seconds to understand it and assess the merits of the concept on any sort of objective basis. I am not a mechanical engineer and had no idea what it was all about till Nick T explained it. If one take's the time to understand something and truly test out it's validity, or at least question its validity on some sort of objective basis, fine. You want to question whether the Digital APO Correction in Flexcolor is effective or marketing BS, good, go test it with the Hassy 28mm lens and let me know. While you are at it, please test the Mamiya 28mm lens and see how it compares at almost twice the price. OTOH, lobbing in gratuitous, sniping comments in a thread about the new features in the H3D-II is out-of-place and does not add one cent to the advancement of our collective knowledge. That it is coming from a working pro who has useful views about those things he does work with on a regular basis is no defense.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141031\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well it's his opinion and he's entitled to it. I personally want to hear the good and the bad so I can make an informed decision. At least he doesn't hide behind an alias!

Barrie Watts
Logged

pss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 960


WWW
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2007, 02:33:41 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I must be missing something here, Paul, but didn't you just form an opinion albeit negative by reading the same brochure? It certainly did not stop you from venturing an opinion seeing that you have not even handled it yet.  So why take techtalk to task?

Just as you questioned how techtalk knew it to be 'good', how do you know that it is 'bad'? How can anybody venture an opinion on something that he has not handled?

Remember: Rational, Balanced, FACTUAL. If you cannot be all that, may I humbly suggest it is best not to venture anything.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i am not venting about how good or bad the H3DII is, i am venting about hasselblad's marketing.....
someone here compared this to apple/ipod marketing....which really shows what's wrong with it....this is a 30000$, highly specialized tool, which has to turn to ipod style mass marketing tricks.....i find that very sad....

i have said it before....there is a lot of good in the H system, there is a lot of innovation...i don't need to have that coated in marketing hogwash to understand it...i prefer a different brand (for many reasons) and that most of the applaudable features are lost on me (because i do not need a corrected 28mm)......

the H3DII has shown up all over the web and it seems to be that very wealthy amateurs are the likeliest market for it....and for that crowd you need "ultra focus".....

as far as facts go: we have all been through this....the H3 is not full frame, the H3DII is not the first 3" DMFback, also not the first OLED..no matter what mr.techtalk says....
i would never say that the phase P30 is the best back out there....it might be the best FOR ME, but others look for different things....so if some company keeps calling their product the "best DSLR" it pisses me off.....
especially when (FACT) there is no way to prove that it is.....the FACT is that no test has in any way shown that any of the available backs have any serious advantages over a competitor.....different features, higher asa,...blablabla...but in the end it is a very personal choice....

i find it absolutely amazing that anytime i (or someone else) comes here to say anything negative about hasselblad, there is a whole army unleashed to defend....a COMPANY! for christ's sake this is nuts....
people go on and on about all kinds of products but forwhatever reason this seems like a mac vs PC issue......
i don't DEFEND mamiya if someone says that the RZ is heavy, old, outdated and a joke....it works for me....people write that the M645 is plastic and a toy....fine with me...phase sucks...but oh boy don't say anything against hasselblad.....because after years they came out with a SOFTWARE SOLUTION for mirror slap.....
i talked to a mamiya techguy...they are planning a software solution to make the RZ half the weight.....i can't wait....
Logged

izaack
Guest
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2007, 02:56:08 PM »
ReplyReply

So it seems you have a problem with the copywriter. Why turn it into a Hasselblad bash-fest?

I hope for your sake that you're not an advertising or commercial photographer. God help us. You must have a moral stance against Photoshop. Make-up artists? Who needs them? We want real looking mugs. No flashes, no artificial lights. In fact, sell your cameras, Paul, because, don't you know it, photography is one big lie.

I do not defend Hasselblad. I don't shill for the company. The trouble is not with criticising Hasselblad per se. It is criticising Hasselblad in an unfair, irrational, imbalanced manner without relying on an iota of facts.

Unless you are willing to stand up to the same scrutiny of being factual in your opinions and criticisms, you have no right imposing the same standard on Hasselblad or rather, its copywriter.

You have not answered my question about how you could possibly form a negative opinion about the H3D-II that you have not handled before. Or is that opinion based on copywriting that pissed you off? So much for facts, huh?

As for the whole army of Hasselblad 'defenders', honestly, I don't see any here. Tell me who they are and how they have 'defended' Hasselblad.
 
You seem to think it is all right to make irresponsible diatribes. If you have such high regard for facts, you wouldn't be saying the things that you did.

If you wish to jump on Hasselblad, good form dictates that you at least wait till the camera is available before slagging it. I would do the same for the Hy6 too.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 06:23:50 PM by izaack » Logged
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5129


« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2007, 03:28:33 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Why wouldn't Nikon license their AF technology to Hasselblad? They have also licensed the technology for their number one money-maker to Fuji (D200 to S5). The S5 is even a direct competitor for Nikons own D200.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nikon does not license in that case; it sells bodies or components to Fuji.

And Fuji DSLR uses use Nikon (mount) lenses, whereas the H system used Fuji lenses! So Nikon effectively keeps both the body and the lens sales, with the main difference being some sensor sales moving from Sony to Fuji. If the alternative was Fuji going to another lens mount, Nikon is better off this way. (Maybe Fuji joined the Fourth Thirds consortium as a threat to leave Nikon mount, and negotiate better access to Nikon body components.)
Logged
hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 729


WWW
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2007, 04:05:31 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
i am not venting about how good or bad the H3DII is, i am venting about hasselblad's marketing.....
someone here compared this to apple/ipod marketing....which really shows what's wrong with it....this is a 30000$, highly specialized tool, which has to turn to ipod style mass marketing tricks.....i find that very sad....

i find it absolutely amazing that anytime i (or someone else) comes here to say anything negative about hasselblad, there is a whole army unleashed to defend....a COMPANY! for christ's sake this is nuts....

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141047\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The  hypocrisy displayed here is just overwhelming. Please go the Phase One web page for P45+ backs and look at ITS marketing BS about "Opticolor" and "X-Pose Technology".
Is there anything to it? Who knows. But point me to one, one reference here to anyone who called Phase on the carpet about its gimmicky marketing slogans.  A patent double standard.
Are people jumping in to "defend" Hasselblad? Hell no. They are jumping in because they want to have an intelligent, constructive exchange  about the new features of the H3D-II. They also are  put off by someone implicitly suggesting they are fools for buying Hasselblad digital products on the basis of empty advertising slogans.
Logged

Jonathan Wienke
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5759



WWW
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2007, 04:20:02 PM »
ReplyReply

Buying anything solely on the basis of marketing hype is kind of like marrying a woman based solely on her breast size. There's a certain wisdom in getting to know the actual product before making a long-term (and expensive) commitment.
Logged

ynp
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 245


WWW
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2007, 05:07:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Hasselblad marketing works. Yesterday I visited a Hasselblad/Alpa dealer and met a guy who was there to place an order for a new H3D-39. He had wads of cash on him. We talked and he explained that new camera is the best and the biggest camera in the world with the biggest screen and a must to own. He owns a Leica M8 as well. He was surprisesd that I have a Sinar MFcamera, he never heard of Leaf. Phase One is the back he had been planning to buy before he saw a new Hasselblad with the 3 inch screen.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 12:46:17 AM by ynp » Logged
Ken R
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 459


WWW
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2007, 06:52:14 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
The difference between 24x36 and 48x36 is not that big.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Its double the size, thats a pretty significant diff. I think its basically like going from a Canon EFS sensor (1.6x) to full frame, or even slightly more of a diff.

Anyway, Hasselblad stands alone in its market. It is the only one with a quasi integrated medium format digital solution that offers up to 39mp models. Also, it is the only one that syncs w/ flash up to 1/800 sec. It also basically has built in DXo correction for its lenses. The new lcd on the H3D II doesnt go unoticed either, looks awesome and finally a MFDB/DSLR has a lcd worthy of the format.
Logged
pss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 960


WWW
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2007, 08:41:54 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
The  hypocrisy displayed here is just overwhelming. Please go the Phase One web page for P45+ backs and look at ITS marketing BS about "Opticolor" and "X-Pose Technology".
Is there anything to it? Who knows. But point me to one, one reference here to anyone who called Phase on the carpet about its gimmicky marketing slogans.  A patent double standard.
Are people jumping in to "defend" Hasselblad? Hell no. They are jumping in because they want to have an intelligent, constructive exchange  about the new features of the H3D-II. They also are  put off by someone implicitly suggesting they are fools for buying Hasselblad digital products on the basis of empty advertising slogans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141064\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i actually was going to add that in...pisses me off just as much...opticolor and x-pose..what BS...i own a P30, will probably end up with a P+ back sometime, but there is just no proof that any of these "features" actually give me a better image...michael wrote about a slight increase in DR and there is obviously an extra stop to play with (and the better screen, which is imo not any more useful then the old one...)
besides i use LR anyway to process my files, so all the x-color and optipose probably are lost on me anyway....sorry i find it sad if DMF makers have to turn to marketing BS....let me know when the next generation chip comes out and i will be interested....
Logged

pss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 960


WWW
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2007, 08:51:49 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Its double the size, thats a pretty significant diff. I think its basically like going from a Canon EFS sensor (1.6x) to full frame, or even slightly more of a diff.

Anyway, Hasselblad stands alone in its market. It is the only one with a quasi integrated medium format digital solution that offers up to 39mp models. Also, it is the only one that syncs w/ flash up to 1/800 sec. It also basically has built in DXo correction for its lenses. The new lcd on the H3D II doesnt go unoticed either, looks awesome and finally a MFDB/DSLR has a lcd worthy of the format.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141108\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


rollei has synced at 1/1000 for years...they just did not call it superduperspeedysync....

in which way is the P45 less integrated with a M645...other then the seperate batteries?

as for the DXo correction...i have said before if i needed a 28 (without movements, which kinda defeats the purpose) i might look at the hass for it's automatic correction....i have yet to see any shot from any other hass lens that is actually better because of that technology...i would take any schneider lens uncorrected via software over any H system lens....

do you actually own a DMF back? have you actually ever shot with one?have you ever shot with a MF system? i am sorry but a 3" screen is a very welcome addition (about time!) but hardly worthy of DMF....judge a 39mpix file on a 3" screen?
Logged

marc gerritsen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 299


WWW
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2007, 09:50:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
rollei has synced at 1/1000 for years...they just did not call it superduperspeedysync....

in which way is the P45 less integrated with a M645...other then the seperate batteries?

as for the DXo correction...i have said before if i needed a 28 (without movements, which kinda defeats the purpose) i might look at the hass for it's automatic correction....i have yet to see any shot from any other hass lens that is actually better because of that technology...i would take any schneider lens uncorrected via software over any H system lens....

do you actually own a DMF back? have you actually ever shot with one?have you ever shot with a MF system? i am sorry but a 3" screen is a very welcome addition (about time!) but hardly worthy of DMF....judge a 39mpix file on a 3" screen?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141124\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I use the correction software with both my 35mm and my 50-110mm nearly everyday and have posted shots way back when that particulare feature of the flexcolor soft ware came out.
I do a lot of architectural and interior work and need to show the documented work without any distortion. This feature works 100% and it does it in the background without me doing anything.

All this aside I do agree there is a continuing Has bashing in this forum which I detest.
Maybe there is a tall poppy syndrome played out here?

I love my H3D and when I see the new Leaf system, I drewl over that as well.
Finally some competition in the intergrated system league.
Never quite understood why anyone wants to combine  components of different manufacturers, especially if something goes wrong they start pointing fingers at each other.

Marc
Logged

Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad