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Author Topic: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II  (Read 18376 times)
pprdigital
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« on: September 23, 2007, 12:13:48 PM »
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This past Friday I attended the Hasselbald Dealer Summit for the Americas in Santa Monica, CA.

This is a hands-on report from my experience with the camera and my discussions with Hasselblad management:

H3D Camera Improvements

*New 3" Screen
I compared this to the screen from a Canon 40D outside. They are very similar. Similar brightness, similar feel and texture. The 40D seems to have a wee bit more resolution. This could be due more to the generated preview file itself, rather than a screen limitation, in fact I am told by Hasselblad this is the case. I haven't looked at the data sheet of the 40D, but they could indeed be the same screen. If not, they could be mistaken for each other. UPDATE: Both screens are 230,000 pixels.

There are actually very few manufacturers of screens in the world. It is much like the production of Blue Jeans or Flat screen TV's that get re-badged. This makes the task of buying these screens even more difficult. You can imagine Hasselblad calling up Dupont Screen Makers and trying to order 2,000 screens and being told that the minimum order is 15,000,000.

*There is a new and improved IR Filter.

*The Firewire port has been enhanced to make it easier to plug in the 800 firewire (via guides) and also more difficult for it to fall out (via additional gripping).

*The CF Door has been replaced by a sturdier version and the clasp has been significantly reinforced.

*The rubber covers over the flash  and sync ports are a  more robust material.

*Ultra Focus is now in it's second iteration.

Killer App 1
*GPS capability is now enabled with the GPS unit, which plugs into the left side of the camera body. While some may yawn at this feature (thinking aerial photography), there are actually quite a number of different applications for this feature. Scouting is an obvious one. The ability to GPS search for that street with the cool door you used as a background comes to mind, and I imagine users will find new uses for this feature. From the new Phocus software, Google Earth automatically launches from the software and the location can be mapped and all files shot with those coordinates can be brought up with a simple command. Very cool. The GPS unit is compatible with H3DII and backward compatible with the H3D, H2D and any Hasselblad CF or CFH on H2 camera. Pricing is not yet set but should be announced shortly.

*Enhanced menu access is now available by double clicking the release button. This enables complete control of the digital back menu in the back via the thumb-wheel dials surrounding the camera grip. Very nice. This is backward compatible to the original H3D. Also, the Drive button has been replaced with ISO/WB, so you can set ISO/WB directly without any menus. Not sure where Drive settings went. This function is backward compatible with every Hasselblad digital capture unit combined with any H camera.

*You can now display battery status by double clicking the light button on the camera. Not only does it show a graphical view of remaining battery life, it gives you the actual percentage. Yeah!

Phocus Software
I spent some time with Phocus. Like Capture One, it has also adopted a very Lightoom/Aperture look and approach. This, I think is a good thing in some ways, one being that learning curves for these software packages should be reduced due to familiarity with the latter applications.

Most of what you can do in Flexcolor seems to be present in Phocus. What is different is obviously, the interface, the ability to rez images 100% in preview mode, ability to compare multiple images, much more intensive metadata input mode, ability to operate from multiple folders, ability to drag -n-drop thumbnails to those folders, ability to freely re-size thumbnails just by grabbing and pulling, etc.

*Killer App 2
I was shown a new Anti-Moire tool. If this tool works the way that I saw it on all images with the problem, this is a true killer app for Hasselblad. What I saw was amazing in how color moire and pattern moire were eliminated. This is accomplished directly on the raw file - before any raw conversion takes place. What's more, this tool will be able to be used on any legacy .fff files from any Imacon/Hasselblad capture unit.

*Niche Killer App
With the new Phocus software, an H3D camera can be manually or auto-focused from the software. This then becomes a great solution when combined with Live Video for complete control of the camera from the software.

Phocus will enable exposure times up to 64 seconds and extend the ISO range by one stop on all Hasselblad products going back to the iXpress series. It is likely the lack of noise will be superior in the newer H-based product, but the fact that someone who bought an iXpress 132C four years ago now has ISO 800 and 64 second capability FOR FREE is, I think, very significant.

Other Goodies
Spare backup bodies are now an option for H3D-II, H2D. I assume H3D, but the data is unclear. Not sure why there would be available backup body for H2D and not H3D, so for now, I am assuming H3D too, but it is not confirmed.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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jonstewart
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2007, 12:31:29 PM »
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This past Friday I attended the Hasselbald Dealer Summit for the Americas in Santa Monica, CA.

This is a hands-on report from my experience with the camera and my discussions with Hasselblad management:

H3D Camera Improvements

<snip>

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So, basically, nicer to use....but what about improvements in image quality?
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Jon Stewart

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pprdigital
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2007, 12:32:38 PM »
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So, basically, nicer to use....but what about improvements in image quality?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jon:

Can you be more specific?

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2007, 01:14:30 PM »
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There are actually very few manufacturers of screens in the world. It is much like the production of Blue Jeans or Flat screen TV's that get re-badged. This makes the task of buying these screens even more difficult. You can imagine Hasselblad calling up Dupont Screen Makers and trying to order 2,000 screens and being told that the minimum order is 15,000,000.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Steve,

With all due respect, I've heard this argument, (ie, justification), for years now, and it's just a bullshit excuse. Either these companies need to get into the "screen reselling business" and buy the fifteen million upfront, and use good ones and resell the rest to some cell phone company, or else, they need to get into the Tony Soprano business, and buy two thousand "that fell off the back of a truck, somewhere in Queens".

While Canon, and every other Terry Richardson point-and-shoot companies are using 3 inch LCDs, and probably larger ones soon, these MF companies are crying like a baby, and using 2.2 inch units, and they're looking like fools. They can't see the forest for the trees. The size of the LCD is a BIG DEAL, and so is the quality of it. Not every job has the luxury of being able to shoot tethered, if you're out in a field somewhere and not able to drag a kart and a Honda.

Hasselblad finally bought enough off the back of a truck to equip the new back. Thank God, welcome to the year 2007. Let's not even discuss Phase, and their out-of-date mullet haircuts.

So can we stop this silly justification now, and agree that, if you're selling me a $32,000.00 digital back, that you can pony up enough money to buy a quality LCD? Because, if you don't, then Canon will. All these MF companies, wanting $32k for a back, and then they want you to listen to their violin music, as they cry about not being able to fit them with a modern LCD. Please.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 01:23:23 PM by Mark_Tucker » Logged
Mark_Tucker
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2007, 01:18:04 PM »
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...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 01:18:36 PM by Mark_Tucker » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2007, 01:25:15 PM »
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Steve,

With all due respect, I've heard this argument, (ie, justification), for years now, and it's just a bullshit excuse. Either these companies need to get into the "screen reselling business" and buy the fifteen million upfront, and use good ones and resell the rest to some cell phone company, or else, they need to get into the Tony Soprano business, and buy two thousand "that fell off the back of a truck, somewhere in Queens".

While Canon, and every other Terry Richardson point-and-shoot companies are using 3 inch LCDs, and probably larger ones soon, these MF companies are crying like a baby, and using 2.2 inch units, and they're looking like fools. They can't see the forest for the trees. The size of the LCD is a BIG DEAL, and so is the quality of it.

Hasselblad finally bought enough off the back of a truck to equip the new back. Thank God, welcome to the year 2007. Let's not even discuss Phase, and their out-of-date mullet haircuts.

So can we stop this silly justification now, and agree that, if you're selling me a $32,000.00 digital back, that you can pony up enough money to buy a quality LCD? Because, if you don't, then Canon will. All these MF companies, wanting $32k for a back, and then they want you to listen to their violin music, as they cry about not being able to fit them with a modern LCD. Please.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

They dont need to be in a market position to buy a truckload of screens

they could just buy some of these from thier local store..

[a href=\"http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/13159/face_recognition/]http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/13159/face_recognition/[/url]

And pull them apart for the screens.

They could grab the face recognition software too!

ps I am (half) joking

pps the H3D2 looks cool

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2007, 01:32:44 PM »
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This is a severe dissapointment since in my opinion, the 40D LCD is horrible in terms of resolution.  It is not possible to get any indication if your shot is close to be focused.  I would rather have a smaller LCD with more reasonable resolution.

Quote
*New 3" Screen
I compared this to the screen from a Canon 40D outside. They are very similar. Similar brightness, similar feel and texture. The 40D seems to have a wee bit more resolution. This could be due more to the generated preview file itself, rather than a screen limitation, in fact I am told by Hasselblad this is the case. I haven't looked at the data sheet of the 40D, but they could indeed be the same screen. If not, they could be mistaken for each other. UPDATE: Both screens are 230,000 pixels.

TSteve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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jonstewart
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2007, 02:08:25 PM »
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Jon:

Can you be more specific?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, you just talked about features which seem to me to more related to making the system easier to use, perhaps to broaden appeal beyond the current audience, but you seemed to say nothing about how the image quality has improved. I am assuming that this new camera has better image quality than it's predecessor, and would be interested in YOUR opinion as to how it is better.

Perhaps I'm wrong in making any assumptions about improvement in image quality, but I would have thought that this (even for a small improvement) would be a priority, when releasing a new model (Thinking of Canon 1Ds 2/3 here).

Thanks in advance.
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Jon Stewart

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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2007, 02:55:02 PM »
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Well, you just talked about features which seem to me to more related to making the system easier to use, perhaps to broaden appeal beyond the current audience, but you seemed to say nothing about how the image quality has improved. I am assuming that this new camera has better image quality than it's predecessor, and would be interested in YOUR opinion as to how it is better.

Perhaps I'm wrong in making any assumptions about improvement in image quality, but I would have thought that this (even for a small improvement) would be a priority, when releasing a new model (Thinking of Canon 1Ds 2/3 here).

Thanks in advance.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141441\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jon:

Well, there are no new sensors that will be hitting the street for some time, so as has been the case with Leaf and with Phase One earlier in the year, Hasselblad has focused on making improvements in other areas.

Leaf increased speed, and Phase One increased long exposure, ISO and provided an improved LCD screen.

There will be ISO and noise improvements - ISO now going to max 1600 and long exposure to 64 seconds - you may also find noise overall is reduced in general. It is notable, that this improvement will cost nothing to existing Hasselblad users. All Hasselblad users from the 4 year old iXpress backs foreward will benefit from the extra stop of ISO, the longer exposures and the reduced noise.

I did not view any of this because these changes will be in association with the release of Phocus. In the past year, Hasselblad has increased capture speeds and (now) ISO and long exposure at ZERO cost to their existing users. These enhancements have all been produced through software/firmware upgrades which are free. I feel that is very significant.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2007, 03:13:04 PM »
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Steve,

With all due respect, I've heard this argument, (ie, justification), for years now, and it's just a bullshit excuse. Either these companies need to get into the "screen reselling business" and buy the fifteen million upfront, and use good ones and resell the rest to some cell phone company, or else, they need to get into the Tony Soprano business, and buy two thousand "that fell off the back of a truck, somewhere in Queens".

While Canon, and every other Terry Richardson point-and-shoot companies are using 3 inch LCDs, and probably larger ones soon, these MF companies are crying like a baby, and using 2.2 inch units, and they're looking like fools. They can't see the forest for the trees. The size of the LCD is a BIG DEAL, and so is the quality of it. Not every job has the luxury of being able to shoot tethered, if you're out in a field somewhere and not able to drag a kart and a Honda.

Hasselblad finally bought enough off the back of a truck to equip the new back. Thank God, welcome to the year 2007. Let's not even discuss Phase, and their out-of-date mullet haircuts.

So can we stop this silly justification now, and agree that, if you're selling me a $32,000.00 digital back, that you can pony up enough money to buy a quality LCD? Because, if you don't, then Canon will. All these MF companies, wanting $32k for a back, and then they want you to listen to their violin music, as they cry about not being able to fit them with a modern LCD. Please.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141432\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Okay.

So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?

I'd like to know what the theories are.

To me, first off, yes affordably buying these things in the quantities they do presents a challenge. And even if that is surpassed, it is also true that if you put a 3" - 4" screen on a MFDB, it will look like crap. There is insufficient resolution in those preview files to provide an image that looks as good as a Canon LCD preview does. With the extra intelligent controllers they have in their camera, they can provide a preview with sufficient resolution on these screens.

Perhaps the integration with the H camera has helped facilitate the enhancement of the preview on this 3" Hasselblad screen. I don't know. All I know is that I have a hard time assuming that these guys are idiots or stupid or just plain unwilling to have done anything about this knowing the advantage it would give them in the marketplace.

Every technology has it's limitations.

Why didn't Canon have an LCD like Nikon has with 900, something thousand pixels? That screen looks awesome. What the hell is wrong with Canon?

Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2007, 07:51:36 PM »
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I always thought the screen thing was a heat related issue - a significant change in all the backs seems to be heat management from CCD's as CMOS runs much cooler. I guess improved power management would help as well.
I'm looking forward to the iso increase on my 132, not that I would use it a lot but the 400 iso setting  which became viable a while back has proven useful a few times and capture speed took a leap recently ( virtually no more waiting for the buffer to clear ) but I thought that has something to do with a new laptop.

Thanks for the report Steve.



Quote
Okay.

So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?

I'd like to know what the theories are.

To me, first off, yes affordably buying these things in the quantities they do presents a challenge. And even if that is surpassed, it is also true that if you put a 3" - 4" screen on a MFDB, it will look like crap. There is insufficient resolution in those preview files to provide an image that looks as good as a Canon LCD preview does. With the extra intelligent controllers they have in their camera, they can provide a preview with sufficient resolution on these screens.

Perhaps the integration with the H camera has helped facilitate the enhancement of the preview on this 3" Hasselblad screen. I don't know. All I know is that I have a hard time assuming that these guys are idiots or stupid or just plain unwilling to have done anything about this knowing the advantage it would give them in the marketplace.

Every technology has it's limitations.

Why didn't Canon have an LCD like Nikon has with 900, something thousand pixels? That screen looks awesome. What the hell is wrong with Canon?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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marc gerritsen
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2007, 09:30:49 PM »
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Thanks as well for that report.
Just one thing regarding the new software phocus.
When I export an fff file to dng, I can recoup about 2-3x more blown highlights and shadows than
using flexcolor; do you know if there is any change on that front as well.
Do you actually know the reason for this
cheers
Marc


Quote
Okay.

So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?

I'd like to know what the theories are.

To me, first off, yes affordably buying these things in the quantities they do presents a challenge. And even if that is surpassed, it is also true that if you put a 3" - 4" screen on a MFDB, it will look like crap. There is insufficient resolution in those preview files to provide an image that looks as good as a Canon LCD preview does. With the extra intelligent controllers they have in their camera, they can provide a preview with sufficient resolution on these screens.

Perhaps the integration with the H camera has helped facilitate the enhancement of the preview on this 3" Hasselblad screen. I don't know. All I know is that I have a hard time assuming that these guys are idiots or stupid or just plain unwilling to have done anything about this knowing the advantage it would give them in the marketplace.

Every technology has it's limitations.

Why didn't Canon have an LCD like Nikon has with 900, something thousand pixels? That screen looks awesome. What the hell is wrong with Canon?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dustbak
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2007, 03:20:54 AM »
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This past Friday I attended the Hasselbald Dealer Summit for the Americas in Santa Monica, CA.

This is a hands-on report from my experience with the camera and my discussions with Hasselblad management:

H3D Camera Improvements

*New 3" Screen
I compared this to the screen from a Canon 40D outside. They are very similar. Similar brightness, similar feel and texture. The 40D seems to have a wee bit more resolution. This could be due more to the generated preview file itself, rather than a screen limitation, in fact I am told by Hasselblad this is the case. I haven't looked at the data sheet of the 40D, but they could indeed be the same screen. If not, they could be mistaken for each other. UPDATE: Both screens are 230,000 pixels.

There are actually very few manufacturers of screens in the world. It is much like the production of Blue Jeans or Flat screen TV's that get re-badged. This makes the task of buying these screens even more difficult. You can imagine Hasselblad calling up Dupont Screen Makers and trying to order 2,000 screens and being told that the minimum order is 15,000,000.

*There is a new and improved IR Filter.

*The Firewire port has been enhanced to make it easier to plug in the 800 firewire (via guides) and also more difficult for it to fall out (via additional gripping).

*The CF Door has been replaced by a sturdier version and the clasp has been significantly reinforced.

*The rubber covers over the flash  and sync ports are a  more robust material.

*Ultra Focus is now in it's second iteration.

Killer App 1
*GPS capability is now enabled with the GPS unit, which plugs into the left side of the camera body. While some may yawn at this feature (thinking aerial photography), there are actually quite a number of different applications for this feature. Scouting is an obvious one. The ability to GPS search for that street with the cool door you used as a background comes to mind, and I imagine users will find new uses for this feature. From the new Phocus software, Google Earth automatically launches from the software and the location can be mapped and all files shot with those coordinates can be brought up with a simple command. Very cool. The GPS unit is compatible with H3DII and backward compatible with the H3D, H2D and any Hasselblad CF or CFH on H2 camera. Pricing is not yet set but should be announced shortly.

*Enhanced menu access is now available by double clicking the release button. This enables complete control of the digital back menu in the back via the thumb-wheel dials surrounding the camera grip. Very nice. This is backward compatible to the original H3D. Also, the Drive button has been replaced with ISO/WB, so you can set ISO/WB directly without any menus. Not sure where Drive settings went. This function is backward compatible with every Hasselblad digital capture unit combined with any H camera.

*You can now display battery status by double clicking the light button on the camera. Not only does it show a graphical view of remaining battery life, it gives you the actual percentage. Yeah!

Phocus Software
I spent some time with Phocus. Like Capture One, it has also adopted a very Lightoom/Aperture look and approach. This, I think is a good thing in some ways, one being that learning curves for these software packages should be reduced due to familiarity with the latter applications.

Most of what you can do in Flexcolor seems to be present in Phocus. What is different is obviously, the interface, the ability to rez images 100% in preview mode, ability to compare multiple images, much more intensive metadata input mode, ability to operate from multiple folders, ability to drag -n-drop thumbnails to those folders, ability to freely re-size thumbnails just by grabbing and pulling, etc.

*Killer App 2
I was shown a new Anti-Moire tool. If this tool works the way that I saw it on all images with the problem, this is a true killer app for Hasselblad. What I saw was amazing in how color moire and pattern moire were eliminated. This is accomplished directly on the raw file - before any raw conversion takes place. What's more, this tool will be able to be used on any legacy .fff files from any Imacon/Hasselblad capture unit.

*Niche Killer App
With the new Phocus software, an H3D camera can be manually or auto-focused from the software. This then becomes a great solution when combined with Live Video for complete control of the camera from the software.

Phocus will enable exposure times up to 64 seconds and extend the ISO range by one stop on all Hasselblad products going back to the iXpress series. It is likely the lack of noise will be superior in the newer H-based product, but the fact that someone who bought an iXpress 132C four years ago now has ISO 800 and 64 second capability FOR FREE is, I think, very significant.

Other Goodies
Spare backup bodies are now an option for H3D-II, H2D. I assume H3D, but the data is unclear. Not sure why there would be available backup body for H2D and not H3D, so for now, I am assuming H3D too, but it is not confirmed.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Steve,


I just got the peace to read through your post. Lets start by saying thanks! Very much appreciated you take the time to sum up new features.

Great to hear the new software has a killer anti-moire tool. This will save time for me on virtually every assigment!

The extended ISO range and exposure time is very welcomed! Any ideas about the noise reduction that has to come with both. Has that undergone any change (read: improvement)?

One other thing that is annoying the hell out of me. The histogram on the CF back. When I compare it with Leaf it is horrible. Leaf has a very nice and clear histogram together with the option of showing how much over or under you are. The CF has a histogram where it is very difficult to see where your endpoints are and can only show areas that are (almost) blown out. Any improvements in this? Probably when there is, this will not come along with the firmware update (hope..hope..hope..).
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 03:22:00 AM by Dustbak » Logged
Mark_Tucker
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2007, 06:46:14 AM »
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So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Steve,

Obviously, I'm just a bit sensitive when it comes to LCD screens. I started out, with digital, with a 1ds, and while it was small, when you looked at it, you could "feel" the light. Then I wrote a much larger check for Phase, and while the size of the check went radically up, the quality of the LCD went radically down.

Then, I see ads for Leaf, and Yair's stripping in images into the LCD area, and then later, he's actually got three-dimensional little people actually jumping out of the screens.

It just makes me wonder sometimes if these manufacturers really know the FEAR that surrounds the quality of the LCD. When you're doing major lighting situations, with six or eight heads, or if you're doing backlit situations, with window light flare, it's crucial that a photographer be able to perceive the subtleties in light quality. Sometimes I wonder if they don't just think, "Oh, they're shooting RAW; they'll be able to fix it in post; all they need to do is get close". This is true about the overall exposure, but where it gets tough is when you're judging window light, or the relation of one head to another, in a scene.

When you don't have Polaroid any more, you've got to be able to have a large quality screen. I'd love to give one of these manufacturers one of those old-timey NPC Polaroid backs that mounted onto a 35mm film camera, and let them shoot a lighting job, and light the set by using 35mm Polaroid. Maybe then, they'd understand the fear.

While shooting tethered is an obvious solution to this, sometimes you just don't want that Ball-And-Chain magliner cart behind you, fitted with the G5 or Imac, battery backups, backup drives, etc. At that point, the LCD becomes VERY IMPORTANT.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud Hasselblad for using their business acumen to acquire the 3" LCDs, whether they got them in Queens or wherever. The important thing is they GOT THEM. Hasselblad continues to make progress; my prediction is, they'll be the only man standing, in medium format.
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2007, 01:05:36 PM »
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the screen issue still amazes me....of course there are minimum orders...if you want to pay 1$/unit....if you are selling a 30000$ camera it really should not matter if you have to pay 50$ per unit....

looks like this is the P+ version of the H3D....which brings up what someone else asked here: how is the image quality? any better?....probably not, an extra stop (which means less noise) added features, a better (but still how much more useable, really?) screen...the real improvements will come with the next generation chips....

the GREAT news about all this is the free upgrades to loyal users and that all this does not seem to come at any added cost.....are you listening phase? if hasslblad can give older backs an extra stop, so could phase....the P20 could do 800....but phase chooses to charge 8000$! for this.....truly a joke.....

a moire removal that works sounds great.....i really haven't had any moire problems since i got the P30, but phase is lagging on this one as well.....i guess adobe will come up with something for LR anyway.....
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jonstewart
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2007, 01:42:55 PM »
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Jon:

Well, there are no new sensors that will be hitting the street for some time, so as has been the case with Leaf and with Phase One earlier in the year, Hasselblad has focused on making improvements in other areas.

Leaf increased speed, and Phase One increased long exposure, ISO and provided an improved LCD screen.

There will be ISO and noise improvements - ISO now going to max 1600 and long exposure to 64 seconds - you may also find noise overall is reduced in general. It is notable, that this improvement will cost nothing to existing Hasselblad users. All Hasselblad users from the 4 year old iXpress backs foreward will benefit from the extra stop of ISO, the longer exposures and the reduced noise.

I did not view any of this because these changes will be in association with the release of Phocus. In the past year, Hasselblad has increased capture speeds and (now) ISO and long exposure at ZERO cost to their existing users. These enhancements have all been produced through software/firmware upgrades which are free. I feel that is very significant.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141448\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm happy that there are minor tweaks, and that those are considered to be an improvement. As someone else pointed out, it does seem similar to  the recent Phase upgrades. I also like the fact that loyal customers are getting some upgrade for nothing, but I wonder whether this promotes a culture of 'jam tomorrow' ie Buy a certain make not because of what it can do now, but the feature set it can have at some point in the future. Nice marketing strategy, if it doesn't backfire.

I wholeheartedly agree that little is going to change until bigger sensors arrive, and lastly, thanks for posting that summary: I did appreciate it, even if it didn't sound like that!
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Jon Stewart

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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2007, 03:39:54 PM »
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how is the image quality? any better?....probably not
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141598\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There is a newly designed IR filter, it may change the image quality (for better or worse...)

Anyways, I don't see HB images standing back on IQ from any of the competitors. They all have their areas of "best performance" and their share of weaknesses.

-axel
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Axel Bauer
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2007, 06:26:24 PM »
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the screen issue still amazes me....of course there are minimum orders...if you want to pay 1$/unit....if you are selling a 30000$ camera it really should not matter if you have to pay 50$ per unit....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141598\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

One more area where the MFDB manufacturers could benefit a lot from collaborating with each others instead of playing solo...

Cheers,
Bernard
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LA30
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2007, 08:03:38 PM »
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When I look at the back of my P30+ I am looking to see if the eyes are open or closed, that's it.  The screen sucks.  I should just "polaroid" with my 5D.  What the hell phase?!!

Ken
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jjj
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2007, 10:14:15 PM »
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I always thought the screen thing was a heat related issue - a significant change in all the backs seems to be heat management from CCD's as CMOS runs much cooler. I guess improved power management would help as well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When I spoke to a Hasselblad rep in 2005 about the crappy screen that was on a par with a 2000 P+S camera, I was given some dubious sounding marketing woffle about heat. Didn't buy into it myself. Making camera back very slightly deeper woud have solved issue described and would have made very little, if any noticable difference to size.
Using a H3 this year, I could check framing but screen was a bit useless otherwise.

Mind you the Canon S60 Screen was better than a 5D's screen for for checking focus. That could be software related though. Both shooting RAW BTW.
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