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Author Topic: Where to find PhillipsNatural Light+ track lights?  (Read 9732 times)
ternst
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« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2007, 04:20:52 PM »
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One part of this that is lurking in the background is the fact that Michael just went through picking a gallery lighting setup last spring - and he picked the larger par 30 Phillips lamps, which is how I got interested in them in the first place. I wonder why he choose the par 30 lamps over the solux system?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2007, 02:52:20 AM »
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I feel that there is way too much discussion of color temp and not enough discussion of CRI. In the end, it's CRI that is important and Solux delivers.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


True, the inksets have less metamerism these days so prints are less fixed on one color temperature if the Kruithof curve is respected in lighting them and the lamps used have a continuous spectral distribution, both in the studio and gallery.

I'm a bit more sceptic on the light at homes, offices, the trend is towards saving energy and that means (compact) fluorescents and LED light here in Europe. At best both get several layers of broadband fluorescents but that will not hide their one to three band spectral origin, not if they still have to save energy.

BTW, few artists know what kind of lighting is used for their prints even if their prints go to major exhibitions. Often you print for more shows after another and at the end the art buyer will not use the same light when that print gets its place on the wall. I think we have an obligation to add a lighting advice on paper with the print. Probably a better service to the customer than adding a chop mark or certificate.

I should make changes here too, still working with the Just Normlights and Philips 950 fluorescent overall lighting where the printers are. Added some 3000K halogene lamps to mix and switch between them on the final proof check. Will add the Philips Diamondline 4100K and see if that's the better compromise.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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juicy
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2007, 06:13:35 AM »
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Hi!

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I should make changes here too, still working with the Just Normlights and Philips 950 fluorescent overall lighting where the printers are. Added some 3000K halogene lamps to mix and switch between them on the final proof check. Will add the Philips Diamondline 4100K and see if that's the better compromise.


Ernst Dinkla

Have you noticed differences between Just Normlicht 5000K and Philips 950? I have been using Just tubes  and have been quite happy with them but lately I have started to suspect they give a slight greenish tint. Maybe the tubes have come to their end. Also the Gretag Color Checker gives a color temp of about 5000K but the tint is +13 when photographed with 1Ds and processed in ACR. Unfortunately I do not have any photos of the GM CC with the same camera taken when the tubes were new.
Also I feel the neutrals on my screen look slightly magenta-tinted when viewed under Just-light and I don't remember this being the case  a year or two ago. (This might be because of the difference between 6500K screen and 5000K light???)

I didn't find much info about Philips Diamond line Pro and the only color temp seems to be 4100K. Have you seen 4700K or 5000K? And what about prices? Solux seems to be very expensive in EU.
For some prepress work I would be most interested in near 5000K bulbs.

Regards,
J
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Woodcorner
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« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2007, 06:28:29 AM »
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I didn't find much info about Philips Diamond line Pro and the only color temp seems to be 4100K. Have you seen 4700K or 5000K? And what about prices? [{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I found a bit more information on the german version of the Philips website:
[a href=\"http://www.prismaecat.lighting.philips.com/ecat/Light/ApplicationRouter.aspx?fh_reffacet=categories&fh_location=%2f%2fprof%2fde_DE%2fcategories%3c%7bfepplg%7d%2fcountries%3e%7bde_DE%7d%2fstatus%3e%7bact%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0002fepplg_75_ep01%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0012fepplg_1116_ep01lhal%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bc_0002fepplg_1127_ep01ldir%7d%2fcategories%3c%7bf_0052fepplg_1127_phl_hdiaml%7d&fh_refview=summary&fh_refpath=de_DE_facet_7384357181&fh_eds=&left_nav=de_de&]Philips Diamondline[/url]

The bulbs come 18 versions: in 4700K, 4100K, 3500K, and various versions of them (10, 24, 36, and 50W, 35W).

Prices around 7 to 10 Euros.

Cheers,

Andrew
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juicy
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« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2007, 06:35:13 AM »
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Hi!

Thank you very much!

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I found a bit more information on the german version of the Philips website:
Philips Diamondline

The bulbs come 18 versions: in 4700K, 4100K, 3500K, and various versions of them (10, 24, 36, and 50W, 35W).

Prices around 7 to 10 Euros.

Cheers,

Andrew

Cheers,
J
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2007, 09:06:35 AM »
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No spectral distribution chart for the Philips Diamondline Pro range but there's some other information on the lamps on pages 58-59 of this PDF:

http://www.lighting.philips.com/ch_de/oem/...de_halogen4.pdf


On the greener output of the Just Normlight, I see less red light component compared to the Gretag Macbeth fluorescents in this article:

http://www.babelcolor.com/download/Light_u..._2005-11-08.pdf

and a slightly higher cyan peak in the spectral distribution chart of the Just lamps in that article if compared to the rough chart of the Philips 950 in this PDF, red drop off the same though:

http://www.pixelpad.nl/downloaden/lichtbronnen.pdf

On camera sensors for measuring spectra: there's an article (with flaws) on sensor sensibility differences that could explain why a fluorescent's spectral peak fits one of the sensor RGB filters better on one camera than on the other. Something that will not be easily compensated with software filters. Nobody will like to get white balance tables in his camera for every fluorescent lamp on the market:

http://photoclubalpha.com/2007/09/10/kms-u...ur-vs-the-rest/

The 1Ds is a special case on itself.


The Babelcolor article is a good guide for studio lighting.



Ernst Dinkla

try:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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juicy
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« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2007, 11:47:23 AM »
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Hi!

Many thanks for pointing out these sources!
I had read the Babelcolor article  but naturally forgotten that already  . I probably have to learn to use Google...

Btw, has anyone tried Osram Decostar 51 Cool Blue (12V 50W 38) halogen bulbs? Osram lists it as 4500K light and markets it especially for jewellery shops etc (like Philips Diamond line pro).

Cheers,
J
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marcsitkin
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« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2007, 12:19:53 PM »
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Thanks, Mark. Are you using the solux fixtures too, or just the bulbs? I suspect they are the same, although since each fixture has its own transformer there might be some quality issues. The track would be the same no matter. And are you using the 35w or 50w bulbs? Thanks...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142027\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm using the 50w bulbs. The fixtures and track are standard Home Depot gear.
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Regards,

Marc Sitkin
www.digitalmomentum.com
ThePhotoDude
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2007, 06:36:20 AM »
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OK I am confused ....

I was ready to purchase this ....

6500K full Spectrum

for colour proofing beacuse I thought the light has to be as pure white as possible.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2007, 07:02:21 AM »
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OK I am confused ....

I was ready to purchase this ....

6500K full Spectrum

for colour proofing beacuse I thought the light has to be as pure white as possible.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


First of all it will not be a pure white light, none of the fluorescents are perfectly white and white is relative to the daylight variations in K. Secondly, few places will have 6500 K lighting for pictures on the wall but outdoor shows. 6500K could be a sensible choice for sign printshops. The 5000K standard (offset printing etc) used before was a compromise between outdoor and indoor lighting, the trend for exhibition pictures goes to warmer colors hence the discussion about the use of 3500 <> 5000 K.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 07:02:47 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
rdonson
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« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2007, 07:08:44 AM »
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OK I am confused ....

I was ready to purchase this ....

6500K full Spectrum

for colour proofing beacuse I thought the light has to be as pure white as possible.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What Ernst, Andrew and others have been sharing is that you need to look at the spectral analysis to understand the light source not just the claim to be daylight or "pure white".

[a href=\"http://www.solux.net/comparison.htm]Solux comparisons[/url]
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Regards,
Ron
ThePhotoDude
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« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2007, 06:13:29 AM »
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OK Thanks Ernst and Ron,

Perhaps the 'pure white' reference was wrong, my wording ..

But if I was printing for different clients who would display their pictures in a wide range of lighting conditions ... in their home (too many lighting combinations to think about), gallery etc etc, then would I not want my proof lighting to be as, what can I use here,... compatible as possible? And not to introduce a color cast on my prints that shouldn't be there?

Your help with this is appreciated.
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Jason F
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« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2007, 09:09:23 AM »
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I'm using the 50w bulbs. The fixtures and track are standard Home Depot gear.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am using the same thing here- standard Home Depot track & fixtures with Solux bulbs. They're great! I've had no problems at all with the track/fixture/bulb combo. So save yourself some money and get at least the track from Home Depot/Lowes.

The one nice feature of the Solux fixture is that closed/black back- the fixtures I have have an open back (to dissapate heat I'd assume), and it's not a major annoyance, but if you look up, you definitely see all the spilled light all over the ceiling coming out of the backs of the fixtures. So I guess the Solux fixtures would just be a cleaner installation once you're finished.

But in my office, not a big deal. If I was using them in a gallery space, or a place in my studio to show off prints, I might want the slightly nicer (albeit pricier) Solux fixtures just for the aesthetic reason.
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ternst
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« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2007, 09:52:28 AM »
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Jason:

I think the solux fixtures also have the vented backs so the light from normal bulbs will spill out of them as well. They sell a "black back" bulb that is painted black and there is no light out the back, but that is due to the bulb and not the fixture. These painted bulbs are twice the price of their normal bulbs ($15 vs. $7).

I probably am going to go with the Solux bulbs and will get track/fixtures I found online (cheaper than Home Depot, and Lowes no longer stocks these 12volt fixtures). Michael told me that he got the Phillips Natural Light Bulbs simply because that is what they had in stock at the local Home Depot - I thought it had been as a result of years of testing!
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