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Author Topic: color labels - why a colored frame?  (Read 4659 times)
The View
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« on: September 27, 2007, 12:30:51 AM »
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Color labels could be great.

What is not great is the way it is being handeled.

It's actually color framing, not labeling.

I used red for shots that will go on my website.

It gave me a red frame around the thumbnail

I like using thumbnails, enlarged, to compare photos. (I wonder how correct the image display is on a thumbnail).

A red frame (or any other color frame) distracts from the photo, brings the colors into a wrong relation.

What I'd wish is to just have a red dot in some distance of the image. Not a frame.

I like the display in grid mode as it is, grey being neutral and not disturbing the images.

My wish? Stop color framing, do real labels like red dots or squares... or all kind of shapes.

Currently, I'm thinking to change my star rating system, so four and five stars are both the same value, four stars not going on the website because not being business related, and five stars going to the website.
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ranjans
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 02:55:37 AM »
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I too feel the colored frames are bit too much, instead a thin colored border (user selectable) will be better.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 09:41:50 AM »
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Why not use the compare mode or survey mode to compare photos instead? Plus, you can always turn off the color labeling scheme in the grid view, if you want to stick to the grid view. (i.e., your images will still be color-labeled but the borders won't be colored)
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 11:22:22 AM »
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To turn off the colored frame: In the Library View Options (command+J) uncheck "Tint grid cells with label colors" under the Grid View options.
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ranjans
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 12:11:38 PM »
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To turn off the colored frame: In the Library View Options (command+J) uncheck "Tint grid cells with label colors" under the Grid View options.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142229\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IN that case until you dont click on the thumbnail you wont know the color label assigned to that image. The color line is visible when selected.

LR brings lot of forced work flow issue, one of which I am starting a new post.
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 01:06:40 PM »
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In the grid view options you can set LR to show you the color label even without the whole cell being highlighted.

For Compact Cells: select either "Label" or "Rating and Label" from one of the drop-down menus.

For expanded cells check "Show rating footer" and then "Include color label."
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madmanchan
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 01:48:15 PM »
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Not sure why you want to know the color label. The purpose of color labeling is for easy filtering, e.g., you want to see only the red images, or only the yellow images, or just the red + yellow but nothing else.

Can you give a more specific example of why you need to know what the actual color is and how it would assist in your workflow? Maybe there's another way to accomplish what you're trying to do ...
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The View
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 10:31:04 PM »
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Not sure why you want to know the color label. The purpose of color labeling is for easy filtering, e.g., you want to see only the red images, or only the yellow images, or just the red + yellow but nothing else.

Can you give a more specific example of why you need to know what the actual color is and how it would assist in your workflow? Maybe there's another way to accomplish what you're trying to do ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Let's say I have a headshot shoot. The client selects his photos, and they get flagged.

I want to keep some for me, to post them on my website. As the flags are already used for the client, I need to use a label.

A simple red dot would do, as I will choose far less images than the client. The client might pick between 7 and 30, I will only pick 1 or 2, 3 maximum. But I need to see the photos that I picked when I look at the grid view.

Contenders could get another color, blue for example.

If I decide to make a hard copy of one of them: third color.

Imagine you use all six available colors. Your grid would be speckled as if you were shooting a job for easter bunny.


A color dot would be much less intrusive into one's color perception of the image than a colored frame.

Have you seen paintings sold in a gallery? They get a tiny red dot when they are sold. It's tiny, easily discernible if you are looking for it, but does not disturb your looking at the image.

Color labelling is great, but needs refinement, more choices for personal preferences.

I saw, that you can switch off the colored frames. Then you do not know, when you look, comparing, at the grid, which ones you already chose.
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Ian Lyons
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2007, 02:13:32 AM »
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I saw, that you can switch off the colored frames. Then you do not know, when you look, comparing, at the grid, which ones you already chose.


You need to be using the Expanded Cell view option.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2007, 05:47:25 AM »
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Out of curiosity, why is it helpful/useful to know, when looking at the grid view of all of the images, which ones are colored red (i.e., your picks) and which ones aren't? Isn't that the role of filtering? i.e., if you want to know which ones are your picks, you just enable the red filter, and then you will see only the images that you picked. Same goes with any of the other colors.

On a somewhat separate issue, I think one problem with your tagging methodology is that it doesn't allow overlaps, since you can only assign 1 color per image. For instance, what happens if you want to make hard proofs / test prints of some of the images, and you want all of these to be purple? But some of these images are contenders (blue) and others are your selects (red). Then if you assigned the hard proofs purple, then you could no longer tell whether they were originally contenders or your selects.

I think the cleanest way to implement your sorting and classification would be to use collections and sub-collections. An image can be part of multiple collections. You could have the parent collection contain all of the images from the shoot. A child collection could have the client's picks. Another child collection could have your picks. Another child collection could have images destined for test prints, etc. None of these need be mutually exclusive.
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2007, 11:26:21 AM »
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I use the color labels for temporary labeling. While yes, it can be used for filtering, it also denotes to me that something is different about those images when I am quickly scanning through a collection of images; visual filtering if you will.
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The View
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2007, 01:38:59 AM »
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Out of curiosity, why is it helpful/useful to know, when looking at the grid view of all of the images, which ones are colored red (i.e., your picks) and which ones aren't? Isn't that the role of filtering? i.e., if you want to know which ones are your picks, you just enable the red filter, and then you will see only the images that you picked. Same goes with any of the other colors.

On a somewhat separate issue, I think one problem with your tagging methodology is that it doesn't allow overlaps, since you can only assign 1 color per image. For instance, what happens if you want to make hard proofs / test prints of some of the images, and you want all of these to be purple? But some of these images are contenders (blue) and others are your selects (red). Then if you assigned the hard proofs purple, then you could no longer tell whether they were originally contenders or your selects.

I think the cleanest way to implement your sorting and classification would be to use collections and sub-collections. An image can be part of multiple collections. You could have the parent collection contain all of the images from the shoot. A child collection could have the client's picks. Another child collection could have your picks. Another child collection could have images destined for test prints, etc. None of these need be mutually exclusive.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142393\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The collections and subcollections are definitely a good idea to sort images.

But often one changes one's mind and so I want to see the "chosen" next to the "contenders" and the not chosen.

I just had the case of an image that somehow always attracted me for a certain facial expression, but it never got a pick flag.

When I reworked that shoot, I found out that with different cropping the image was great. I could see that, as I was going through all the photos, and so seeing the chosen and the contenders, and suddenly I had that idea how that non-contender would work out.

If you separate images in collections, you do your decision, but you can't refine or rework it over time, which I always do.
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The View
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2007, 01:40:34 AM »
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I use the color labels for temporary labeling. While yes, it can be used for filtering, it also denotes to me that something is different about those images when I am quickly scanning through a collection of images; visual filtering if you will.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142449\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


"Visual Filtering" is a good term.

And I would like to have those indicators visible.

The extended cell version, proposed by ilyons, doesn't change anything about the red frame.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 01:45:09 AM by The View » Logged

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61Dynamic
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2007, 12:06:51 PM »
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You can set LR to show you the color labels without the frame being tinted. The only time you can't see the color labels is with the cells set to no information with the tint off. Maybe this screenshot example will help clear the air at to what's available:
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seanmcfoto
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2007, 10:25:42 PM »
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I'd agree that using collections is probably a better way to achieve what you.
Flags are local to the folder, so you could easily create 2 collections of the same images: Client Picks, My Picks. Let the client flag their images as normal in the Client Picks collection, then flag your own in the My Picks collection. Because flags are local to the collection, they won't interfere with each other. As you're using the same choosing technique for both yourself and the client, I think this will simplify things, without needing to use Labels at all.
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ranjans
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2007, 11:13:14 PM »
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I'd agree that using collections is probably a better way to achieve what you.
Flags are local to the folder, so you could easily create 2 collections of the same images: Client Picks, My Picks. Let the client flag their images as normal in the Client Picks collection, then flag your own in the My Picks collection. Because flags are local to the collection, they won't interfere with each other. As you're using the same choosing technique for both yourself and the client, I think this will simplify things, without needing to use Labels at all.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Quite true, till now I never tried collections, but yesterday found a video on [a href=\"http://www.lightroomkillertips.com/]http://www.lightroomkillertips.com/[/url]
"Real World Collections" which made me use collections & found that its a better solution when the images are overlapped with your choice & client choice.

Now my work flow is to rate the images & switch the filter ON, so now I would only see selected images from which I can make collections further as
"my 1st choice"
"clients choice" etc.

Collections can have nested collection too & you can make a collections of virtual copies too.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 11:15:02 PM by ranjans » Logged
seanmcfoto
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2007, 11:17:04 PM »
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There are issues with showing flags in nested collections of the same images if 'Include Photos from Subitems' is switched on.

In my blog post referring to Matt's video, I mention that there are a few things Matt doesn't mention about collections, like that Presets tie to collections. EG if you use a collection with a Web Preset, LR remembers this and uses that the next time you open Web with that collection selected.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 11:17:31 PM by seanmcfoto » Logged

The View
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« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2007, 01:05:37 AM »
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You can set LR to show you the color labels without the frame being tinted. The only time you can't see the color labels is with the cells set to no information with the tint off. Maybe this screenshot example will help clear the air at to what's available:
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142695\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So you have to set it for the compact cells in the expanded cells dialogue in the view options.

That was nifty!

Thanks!
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The View
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« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2007, 01:09:37 AM »
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I'd agree that using collections is probably a better way to achieve what you.
Flags are local to the folder, so you could easily create 2 collections of the same images: Client Picks, My Picks. Let the client flag their images as normal in the Client Picks collection, then flag your own in the My Picks collection. Because flags are local to the collection, they won't interfere with each other. As you're using the same choosing technique for both yourself and the client, I think this will simplify things, without needing to use Labels at all.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142813\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Flags are local to the collection. That's great.

But still, I am glad that I found this "muted" color labelling now. As long as the decision is not made, I want all the images together with the presumed picks.

Then, when it's decided, I can move it to collections.
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