Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: How does Aptus 75 compare to Sinar eMotion 75 ?  (Read 21905 times)
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2007, 06:17:19 PM »
ReplyReply

That is our true opinion and working guidance as well:

- to leave it to the photographer to filter the noise or not, unlike others
- to never apply any sharpening in the raws, unlike others

Thierry

Quote
noise is very personal but i use the P30 at 400 and 800 quite a bit...and i ahve heard that the P30+ brings that up one more stop....i find the "noise at 800 to be very "grain-like" reminds me of TRI-X (for all who can remember)...i absolutely hate noise reduction software (almost as much as i hate sharpening software)....i have tried all, but i prefer a "grainy" look over a smudged mushy any day....
of course if you want clean, base iso is it.....but remember that any film (even velvia) shows a lot of grain/noise when scanned and blown up....

it really depends on your personal preference...

one of the things i did not like about the aptus (and my valeo before that) was the seemingly always applied noise reduction (just like phase always seems to have some kind of sharpening on in C1, even when it is turned off...)...the emotion does not seem to have that...

comes down to the same old thing: test them all, there are too ma ny things to consider, most of them personal preference....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143013\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
TechTalk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 296


« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2007, 07:02:44 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
comes down to the same old thing: test them all, there are too many things to consider, most of them personal preference....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143013\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree.
Logged
yaya
Guest
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2007, 03:49:23 AM »
ReplyReply

May I suggest that anyone who does not use the 2 mentioned backs in their current incarnations on a regular base, with current software and firmware, will avoid commenting on the features and qualities of the "other brand".

The OP shoots fashion, for which you need speed (tethered/ un-tethered), quick previews on screen (tethered), good skin tone rendition, good iso range (from base with flash to high with available light.
You also need to know that there's support and backup (rental?) when something goes wrong, be it a user error or a software/ hardware issue. Is there a dealer nearby that can help and how fast the turnaround is, should something break.

With regards to using a fan or not. I suggest taking a fast series of 100 frames and then comparing the first to the last. I believe that you will be able to appreciate the advantage of the fan. The other area where it helps is with Live Video (which is less relevant to the OP) and leaving it ON for long periods.

If you shoot tethered and for whatever reason wish to use a 3rd party software (Lightroom or Aperture being two examples) for processing, then you will appreciate the fact the the Leaf files can go straight into these two programmes through hot folders.

However if you choose to use LeafCapture 11, then you will appreciate the large, hi-quality previews, especially when they come up on the "Preview Monitor", set in full screen mode on a 30" ACD. Your clients will like them as well...

External battery can be an advantage should you need/ want a larger one, and being a standard Samsung videocam battery, it is fairly easy to get hold of cheaply.

The large touch-screen LCD allows for advanced functionality on location, such as entering copyrights and notes, spot metering, selecting various image parameters including curves and crops and so on.

Last, the Bluetooth feature can serve well in a fashion environment where the client/ assistant can use an iPaq for viewing, checking and editing files from upto 6-7 metres away, without having to touch the camera while you are shooting.

But as many others already suggested: testing is the best way for finding out which back is the best for you.

Good luck!

Yair
Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2007, 04:16:40 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Yair,

may I kindly suggest that your comment is misplaced: why should others not have the right to give their opinion? Or then, please be so fair and "jump-in" EACH time when others do this in your "favour" and when not using the back on a REGULAR base, like you say: I have never seen you doing this, so far.

This being said, there is at least one user having posted here who knows for having tested both and dealt with their respective files and workflow.

I think anyone buying a back would be aware about what he needs and what is important for him, and that testing and comparing (if possible side by side) is the most important.

Sorry Yair, you simply cannot deny somebody to give his input because you don't agree with it.

Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
May I suggest that anyone who does not use the 2 mentioned backs in their current incarnations on a regular base, with current software and firmware, will avoid commenting on the features and qualities of the "other brand".

The OP shoots fashion, for which you need speed (tethered/ un-tethered), quick previews on screen (tethered), good skin tone rendition, good iso range (from base with flash to high with available light.
You also need to know that there's support and backup (rental?) when something goes wrong, be it a user error or a software/ hardware issue. Is there a dealer nearby that can help and how fast the turnaround is, should something break.

With regards to using a fan or not. I suggest taking a fast series of 100 frames and then comparing the first to the last. I believe that you will be able to appreciate the advantage of the fan. The other area where it helps is with Live Video (which is less relevant to the OP) and leaving it ON for long periods.

If you shoot tethered and for whatever reason wish to use a 3rd party software (Lightroom or Aperture being two examples) for processing, then you will appreciate the fact the the Leaf files can go straight into these two programmes through hot folders.

However if you choose to use LeafCapture 11, then you will appreciate the large, hi-quality previews, especially when they come up on the "Preview Monitor", set in full screen mode on a 30" ACD. Your clients will like them as well...

External battery can be an advantage should you need/ want a larger one, and being a standard Samsung videocam battery, it is fairly easy to get hold of cheaply.

The large touch-screen LCD allows for advanced functionality on location, such as entering copyrights and notes, spot metering, selecting various image parameters including curves and crops and so on.

Last, the Bluetooth feature can serve well in a fashion environment where the client/ assistant can use an iPaq for viewing, checking and editing files from upto 6-7 metres away, without having to touch the camera while you are shooting.

But as many others already suggested: testing is the best way for finding out which back is the best for you.

Good luck!

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1131


WWW
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2007, 04:22:54 AM »
ReplyReply

----
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 04:26:34 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1131


WWW
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2007, 04:24:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
May I suggest that anyone who does not use the 2 mentioned backs in their current incarnations on a regular base, with current software and firmware, will avoid commenting on the features and qualities of the "other brand".

Good luck!

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

do you use the two backs on a regular base?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 04:24:16 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
yaya
Guest
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2007, 05:12:26 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Dear Yair,

may I kindly suggest that your comment is misplaced: why should others not have the right to give their opinion? Or then, please be so fair and "jump-in" EACH time when others do this in your "favour" and when not using the back on a REGULAR base, like you say: I have never seen you doing this, so far.

This being said, there is at least one user having posted here who knows for having tested both and dealt with their respective files and workflow.

I think anyone buying a back would be aware about what he needs and what is important for him, and that testing and comparing (if possible side by side) is the most important.

Sorry Yair, you simply cannot deny somebody to give his input because you don't agree with it.

Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143098\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry I think you have missed my point or maybe I wasn't clear enough.

This is a free public board and every opinion is welcome and is useful as long as it's backed up by relevant and current information. That's all I am saying.

If one of your customers has tested other backs some time ago in a certain environment, his/ her conclusions are not necessarily relevant to what the OP of this thread is looking for.

I don't see the point in shoulder tapping anyone who posts in my product's favour as it is not my style. If the product does the job then that's good and if it doesn't, then it is my job to make sure that it works or that its limitations are known.

Yair
Logged
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1131


WWW
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2007, 05:31:08 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
If one of your customers has tested other backs some time ago in a certain environment, his/ her conclusions are not necessarily relevant to what the OP of this thread is looking for.


Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143104\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i can not see which right you have to qualify or disqualify my posts.
as usual you prefer not to say whom you mean, but i suppose you talk about me.
i can tell you that - even if i do not work on a "regular base " with your products i have enough contacts with friends/ collegues/ and even distributers of leaf to know how far your efforts resulted.
Btw it seems so that you still have not dissolved your centerfold issue for all customers,- or would you claim the opposite than you are free to do it. lets see who will jump in the discussion.

as last time, when you felt it adequate to write that it might be "dangerous" for me posting about your products i am missing, one time more, your point.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 05:40:18 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2007, 05:48:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Yair,

And I think you have missed my point as well. I don't see it as your right to make such a comment to somebody posting, whatever he is posting and whoever is posting, being it in favour of one or another, it doesn't matter. It is about the "kind of forbidding"-style which does not come very sound for me.

If your main concern in this is that each member here making comments HAS TO have an experience with the mentioned back, product or topic he is speaking about, then you will not have finish to jump-in.

And by the way: it is not "one of our customers" who has tested a Leaf back and it is not who you are thinking. You missed this one.

We agree on one point: "shoulder tapping" is not our style.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry I think you have missed my point or maybe I wasn't clear enough.

This is a free public board and every opinion is welcome and is useful as long as it's backed up by relevant and current information. That's all I am saying.

If one of your customers has tested other backs some time ago in a certain environment, his/ her conclusions are not necessarily relevant to what the OP of this thread is looking for.

I don't see the point in shoulder tapping anyone who posts in my product's favour as it is not my style. If the product does the job then that's good and if it doesn't, then it is my job to make sure that it works or that its limitations are known.

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143104\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2007, 06:01:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Yair,

I would appreciate your answer on this, since André does not seem to answer or know about it.

Can you jump in here?

Thank you.

Best regards,
Thierry



Quote
May I ask if this is the case with other MF bodies, means do they have adapters for "Contax 645", "Mamiya 645", "Mamiya RB", "Rollei 6008", "Hass V", etc.... for a back with dedicated "H" mount?

Also, can you say if this is the case with all dedicated mounts, that they have adapters for all the above brands and MF camera models?

FYI: it is a long time that there is no need to shim anymore the eMotion backs (except for the Rollei 6008). The other Sinarbacks had never to be shimmed.

Thanks for a clarification.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142839\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
yaya
Guest
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2007, 06:11:13 AM »
ReplyReply

Anyone who wishes to be taken seriously when posting and commenting on a product's pluses and minuses should be prepared and able to provide sound reference or otherwise it turns into just another post.

Nobody is forbidding anyone here and I'll appreciate it if in the future you refrain from accusing me for doing so.

Thanks

Yair

PS don't worry I didn't miss Paul's post and I have all the respect for him, his work and his choice of product.
Logged
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1131


WWW
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2007, 06:13:25 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Anyone who wishes to be taken seriously when posting and commenting on a product's pluses and minuses should be prepared and able to provide sound reference or otherwise it turns into just another post.

Nobody is forbidding anyone here and I'll appreciate it if in the future you refrain from accusing me for doing so.

Thanks

Yair


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143112\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
what you mean? could you be somehow more clear?
Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
Dustbak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2372


« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2007, 06:21:23 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
If you shoot tethered and for whatever reason wish to use a 3rd party software (Lightroom or Aperture being two examples) for processing, then you will appreciate the fact the the Leaf files can go straight into these two programmes through hot folders.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yair,

Hotfolder?  

Could you define your definition of hot folder? I have not found hot folders in Leaf V11 sofar. A folder where my files come in that I shoot tethered and that get immediately processed with parameters pre-defined by me.

I have not found this in Bridge of Lightroom either. Lightroom has a folder that gets imported when something enters but this doesn't process the files and is a PITA when you have to get rid of the files that do not get past the final approval afterwards.

I would love to see a hot folder in LC (I have actually asked for it several times on the Leaf Forum). A folder that spits out Tiff, JPG's with predefined parameters as soon as new files enter. Actually this would be a big asset for more brands as well. It is not just Leaf that needs to get this IMO.


BTW. No experience with the A75. Other Leaf products, I have been tearing apart the software and portable solutions quite extensively just to see how it works and what can and cannot be done with it.

Anyway, my advice would be as well. Test it yourself or prepare to find out the hard way (which I did and which is also a lot of fun between the periods of utter dispair, disgust and frustration). I have yet to use (for at least a year to 2 years) a Sinar back to be able to say that I have worked with all 4 MFDB's and their respective work flows.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 06:34:49 AM by Dustbak » Logged
yaya
Guest
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2007, 06:43:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
what you mean? could you be somehow more clear?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143113\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If someone says that brand X is better than Brand Y for fashion for instance, we would like to hear his/ her opinion about capture speed, skin tone rendition, high iso performance and his/ her chosen workflow in the brand's own software and/ or 3rd party apps.

If we're talking about another environment, such as architecture, then we'd like to hear about sharpness (not sharpening), DR and dealing with artefacts such as colour casts and vignetting and how these corrections are implemented into the workflow i.e can the files after corrections be processed in the back's own software etc. Which is what you have done but that was quite a while ago and things have moved a bit since then.

Yair
Logged
yaya
Guest
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2007, 06:56:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Yair,

Hotfolder?   

Could you define your definition of hot folder? I have not found hot folders in Leaf V11 sofar. A folder where my files come in that I shoot tethered and that get immediately processed with parameters pre-defined by me.

I have not found this in Bridge of Lightroom either. Lightroom has a folder that gets imported when something enters but this doesn't process the files and is a PITA when you have to get rid of the files that do not get past the final approval afterwards.

I would love to see a hot folder in LC (I have actually asked for it several times on the Leaf Forum). A folder that spits out Tiff, JPG's with predefined parameters as soon as new files enter. Actually this would be a big asset for more brands as well. It is not just Leaf that needs to get this IMO.
BTW. No experience with the A75. Other Leaf products, I have been tearing apart the software and portable solutions quite extensively just to see how it works and what can and cannot be done with it.

Anyway, my advice would be as well. Test it yourself or prepare to find out the hard way (which I did and which is also a lot of fun between the periods of utter dispair, disgust and frustration). I have yet to use (for at least a year to 2 years) a Sinar back to be able to say that I have worked with all 4 MFDB's and their respective work flows.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143115\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hello Ray,

By hot folder I mean LR and Aperture can be set to watch the shots folder as they come in. BTW in LR you can set it to "import" the files in their original location so you don't have to deal with extra storage space.
Apple provide a script called "Aperture Hot Folder" that allows Aperture to import RAW files automatically into its library.

The hot folder that you are referring to is something we have in V8's batchProcessor and that we intend to bring back in one of LC11's next versions.

Yair
Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2007, 07:09:59 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Yair,

I have been polite and I shall remain. And I am patient as well.

However, I wish to repeat myself: I sincerely put in doubt your right to write and deny somebody to post. "Suggesting" somebody like you did it, is certainly not what can be understood as gentleman-like. And even less when you are not "naming" the person whom you have in mind.

That's all my point, nothing more, but also nothing less.

As for "forbidding": it was simply how it sounds to my ears, and it is my full right to express my feeling. I am may be very sensitive, but I maintain that it does not sound very polite and respectful for me.

As for Paul: I did neither speak about him! Nor did I say that this person has posted in this particular tread. And it doesn't actually matter. My point is simply that anyone has the right to post here, period. And it should be your duty not to put somebody in doubt by suggesting him not to post and at the same time not naming him, but rather to address him directly with your facts and your knowledge, which should actually be pretty easy.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Anyone who wishes to be taken seriously when posting and commenting on a product's pluses and minuses should be prepared and able to provide sound reference or otherwise it turns into just another post.

Nobody is forbidding anyone here and I'll appreciate it if in the future you refrain from accusing me for doing so.

Thanks

Yair

PS don't worry I didn't miss Paul's post and I have all the respect for him, his work and his choice of product.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143112\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Dustbak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2372


« Reply #56 on: October 01, 2007, 07:14:11 AM »
ReplyReply

That is good news!

Indeed I am aware of the Lightroom hotfolder. As I said that is only meant to import images into the Library. It doesn't process files.

For me (naturally this can be totally different for someone else) it is not always that usefull.

Every file I shoot needs to be processed and output (mostly in JPG). Not every file needs to be in a library. I don't know how others do this but I do not save RAW files for my catalogue/packshots. I have between 50K & 100K of these annually. The hot folder that I mentioned would save a lot of time for me, especially if it can invoke scripts that can make photoshop run actions as well.

Yair, please ask the developers to put in the option of running a Photoshop droplet just after saving the file from the hotfolder!

Free work or other work I find interesting enough to keep in libraries will be made, processed (basic), evaluated, processed further, stored and catalogued. This can be done with the hotfolder of Lightroom.

I still find it not very handy but going into that would probably go to far.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 07:29:41 AM by Dustbak » Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2007, 07:31:47 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Yair,

BTW: nowhere did the OP mention that he is shooting fashion, but people. Which might not be that far away from each other, but which certainly isn't the same.

And his main concern was when shooting at higher ISO, which I did address by answering as clearly as possible, and colour rendition, which others did address.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
The OP shoots fashion, .....
Yair

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
godtfred
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 293



WWW
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2007, 07:45:09 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Indeed I am aware of the Lightroom hotfolder. As I said that is only meant to import images into the Library. It doesn't process files.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143129\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I can not agree with you more on everything you said about hotfolders!

I have been wanting automatic processing of files with "photoshop type" actions while shooting tethered for several years, and it seems nobody provides this in any adequate fashion... everybody just assumes that a folder being "watched" for incoming files is everything anybody could ever need, but the software importing from the folder does not automatically do something with the file!?

-axel
Logged

Axel Bauer
godtfred.com
H2|M679CS|P45+
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1131


WWW
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2007, 08:13:51 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
If someone says that brand X is better than Brand Y for fashion for instance, we would like to hear his/ her opinion about capture speed, skin tone rendition, high iso performance and his/ her chosen workflow in the brand's own software and/ or 3rd party apps.

If we're talking about another environment, such as architecture, then we'd like to hear about sharpness (not sharpening), DR and dealing with artefacts such as colour casts and vignetting and how these corrections are implemented into the workflow i.e can the files after corrections be processed in the back's own software etc. Which is what you have done but that was quite a while ago and things have moved a bit since then.

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143119\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


yaya.
that lc11 is out and people seems to be content with it has nothing to do with the advantages i am claiming in favour of the emotion backs and its faster ( and i.m.o. better ) workflow.
i know where is the actual "state of the art" of the aptus75 backs, your gain adjuster and lc11.

btw,- aside tethered shooting - i cannot see much sense that every maker tries to invent the wheel again in spending lots of money to write its own software.
i would understand that, if the file quality would be higher than in third party sw,- but this seems not to be the case as far i can see,- although of course everybody is free to like one sw more than another and lc11 seems to be successfull and most people who use it, like it.

i am not comparing lc11 and capture shop because both are not interesting me.
i dont like the camera-makers software , neither from sinar, nor from leaf, nor from hasselblad/ imacon. i am tempted to make an exception here for phase, mainly because it is an "open" software and supports many 35mm cameras as well as the phase backs.

i compare sinar + leaf here in terms of workspeed, workflow, quality and issues ( CF ),- if white references have to be taken and applied to various files, as it should be done with architecture systems, as long shift lenses are used.
i cannot see how this changed with lc11 in a way that you could reach in practical environments even the half of the speed you can get with the sinar/brumbaer workflow.
again: i am not talking abut lc11or cs. i am comparing ALL software workflows which are available for these two backs,- in case of sinar i speak about brumbaer tools not about captureshop.

did you try it out with - lets say 20 files with different white files? do it and measure the time instead of  claiming that "others" dont know what about they write.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 08:31:12 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad