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Author Topic: .xmp sidecar file from smart layer  (Read 5920 times)
Wayne Fox
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« on: September 30, 2007, 10:33:15 PM »
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I've been experimenting with a little bit of an odd workflow, doing most of my inital RAW conversions in Lightroom. When I'm ready to work on images, I load up bridge, and from there open the image in photoshop.  I have lightroom set to save sidecar files, and Bridge reads them in just fine.

I open the file in photoshop as a smart layer, in case I want to go back into the RAW converter to make any tweaks, such as density or color.  Probably not any better than just using a simple adjustment layer, but seems like it should be.

This works great, but presents a slight challenge when I'm working on a panorama.  My normal process there is to work with one of the images, from the RAW conversion all the way through to a test print to try and make sure I feel the RAW conversion is as good as I can get it, before I go through the process of stitching the images, which I do from the RAW files now in CS3.

I've found that if I reopen the smart layer in ACR and make adjustments, the XMP sidecar file isn't updated.  Since my goal is to sync the new settings to the other files for the panorama, I'm wondering if there is anyway at all to force an update to the sidecar file if you modify the RAW settings from a smart layer?
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 12:48:37 PM »
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Found an answer to this question today, in case anyone cares.  I find myself more and more using the raw file as a smart object and avoiding adjustment layers when I can reopen the RAW file to make the adjustment.

Anyway, I found clicking on the drop down menu in ACR there is a choice I've just never noticed before ... Export Settings to XMP.  Just have to remember to do that if you come back into ACR RAW from the smart object.
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santa
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2007, 12:07:31 PM »
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Wayne,

   I have missed this basic LR ability and don't see how to set LR so that Bridge can read the data. When I make an adjustment in LR, Bridge does not see it. I have set Catalog Settings/Metadata to Offer Suggestins.../Write Develop settings../Automatically write changes into XMP. I have  folder of .cr2 files from my camera and I do indeed see two .xmp files within but I'm not sure what I had set to get them there because the above settings are not working for other files I develop in LR in such a way as to allow Bridge to see them.
    I see that opening the folder within Bridge creates .xmp files within the folder for each of the files and it honors the changes made in LR. Somehow a few of the .xmp files made in LR were set within the .xmp files in that folder but not others. Any tips? I've looked at the LR help file...
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2007, 06:49:55 PM »
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Quote
Wayne,

   I have missed this basic LR ability and don't see how to set LR so that Bridge can read the data. When I make an adjustment in LR, Bridge does not see it. I have set Catalog Settings/Metadata to Offer Suggestins.../Write Develop settings../Automatically write changes into XMP. I have  folder of .cr2 files from my camera and I do indeed see two .xmp files within but I'm not sure what I had set to get them there because the above settings are not working for other files I develop in LR in such a way as to allow Bridge to see them.
    I see that opening the folder within Bridge creates .xmp files within the folder for each of the files and it honors the changes made in LR. Somehow a few of the .xmp files made in LR were set within the .xmp files in that folder but not others. Any tips? I've looked at the LR help file...
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I have found some challenges with my workflow, apparently from how LR and Bridge regard the .xmp files.  I'm trying to confirm the exact behavior but from what I can tell these are circumstances that present a challenge.

Lightroom will update a .xmp file as long as no other editor has made changes to the file.  If you have made changes with ACR, then it seems LR will then not overwrite  changes made in LR to the .xmp file even if you have LR set to do so.  You can force LR to write the changes into the .xmp by choosing Save Metadata to file.  It will actually confirm you want to overwrite the other applications changes to this file.

As far as LR is concerned it seems to write all changes to any .xmp file that hasn't been modified by another editor, but it doesn't read any changes made using an external RAW editor, since it stores it's own changes inside it's database.  Here again you can use the Read Metadata from File menu command to read in the .xmp file that you have modified in ACR and sync those with LR's internal settings.

It has me a little confused right now, and I"m still trying to understand exactly what happens when. I really like using a smart layer inside photoshop, but it appears it requires some babysitting to make sure any changes made in ACR get back into the LR library.
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worldburger
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2009, 01:52:30 AM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
I have found some challenges with my workflow, apparently from how LR and Bridge regard the .xmp files.  I'm trying to confirm the exact behavior but from what I can tell these are circumstances that present a challenge.

Lightroom will update a .xmp file as long as no other editor has made changes to the file.  If you have made changes with ACR, then it seems LR will then not overwrite  changes made in LR to the .xmp file even if you have LR set to do so.  You can force LR to write the changes into the .xmp by choosing Save Metadata to file.  It will actually confirm you want to overwrite the other applications changes to this file.

As far as LR is concerned it seems to write all changes to any .xmp file that hasn't been modified by another editor, but it doesn't read any changes made using an external RAW editor, since it stores it's own changes inside it's database.  Here again you can use the Read Metadata from File menu command to read in the .xmp file that you have modified in ACR and sync those with LR's internal settings.

It has me a little confused right now, and I"m still trying to understand exactly what happens when. I really like using a smart layer inside photoshop, but it appears it requires some babysitting to make sure any changes made in ACR get back into the LR library.

I've run into a similar problem:
Like you (and perhaps, most) I'm trying to get as much editing done in the ACR conversion.  Then I'll edit as Smart Object in PS so that I can correct perspective.  Then when I get back to Lightroom I've got the original file plus a XYZ-Edit.TIF as well.  Here is the rub: say, I want to make a change to the color or something that I want in both files.  You'd think I'd just go to the original raw file and edit on that...I hoped that the raw file would update in the Smart Object next time I'd open the file in PS, however, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Anyone else experience this?  Or perhaps have a solution?
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2009, 04:24:35 AM »
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I suspect what you're missing is that the Smart Object layer contains its own copy of the raw file - not a link back to the original raw file. I can see why the latter would make sense, but that's not how they've done it.

In ACR, you could always save your settings as a preset, then edit "the other" raw file and apply them.

John
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worldburger
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2009, 07:53:53 PM »
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Quote from: johnbeardy
I suspect what you're missing is that the Smart Object layer contains its own copy of the raw file - not a link back to the original raw file. I can see why the latter would make sense, but that's not how they've done it.

In ACR, you could always save your settings as a preset, then edit "the other" raw file and apply them.

John

Thanks, John.  I guess I should have read up more on the specs of Smart Objects.

So am I really that strange wanting to do this?  I can see so many practical applications for smart objects like this (like creating a design with a reference to an external file still being edited by a photographer).  Is there another simpler way to make a PS smart object which references an XML file created or edited by lightroom for live updating (without resorting to saving preset settings)?
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