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Author Topic: Testing backs for use in architectural photography  (Read 11416 times)
Dustbak
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2007, 02:50:58 PM »
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Thanks Steve.

I figured it must be something like that. I will give it another go this weekend. Will let you know how it went.
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Tomas Johanson
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2007, 03:38:13 PM »
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I tested the A75, P45 and H2/39; I did not test the Sinar backs (because they always have different parameters than the other backs: our 50 ISO is really 100 ISO and our highlight recovery is so much better, and bla. bla. bla.)

As an Architectural photographer I use the ISO range from 50-800, so I will suggest you also test your back on high ISO and not only on 50-100 ISO.

I am working with a P45+ and Contax 645 and Cambo with Schneider digital lenses, I am working together with another Architectural photographer and his setup is Leaf A75 and Alpa with Schneider digital lenses. When we compare our files they are very similar in quality. There is a lot of difference (pros and cons) between the backs and the software but the final result are very close.

Good luck

Torben
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Hi Torben,

Was the long exposure times an importent thing when you choose Phase One. I have nearly decided to buy Sinar eMoton75, but i thinking about the max 32s exposure time.

I don´t need 30 minutes but a few minutes would be fine.

Tomas
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mtomalty
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2007, 03:41:31 PM »
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I don´t need 30 minutes but a few minutes would be fine.


Ah!  But don't forget that 30 seconds on a Sinar back is like 60 seconds on any other back  :>))

MT
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TorbenEskerod
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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2007, 04:47:51 PM »
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xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 05:59:18 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
rainer_v
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« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2007, 06:35:32 PM »
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Hi Tomas

In architectural photography you can get by with the 30s exposure time in most situations, but in special situations it is nice to have the possibility to do even longer exposure time. For me it is not that important but a nice feature.

More important for me is high ISO when you need to capture people in Architectural spaces.

I would suggest you contact your dealers and try both backs and software side-by-side.

Cheers

Torben
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this is one reason i decided for the HR lenses, because i can use them without centerfilter at f4 or 4,5.
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rainer viertlböck
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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2007, 07:35:50 PM »
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MT,

you have got the point right in the middle!

 

Best regards,
Thierry

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Ah!  But don't forget that 30 seconds on a Sinar back is like 60 seconds on any other back  :>))

MT
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2007, 08:34:42 PM »
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MT,

you have got the point right in the middle!

 

Best regards,
Thierry
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When testing backs side by side I found that most had different sensitivities a the same 100 ASA setting.  The Aptus 22 was more than a half stop different than the Aptus 75.  The Aptus 75 was not the same as the P45.  This can make a side by side test a little more time consuming since it is ideal to evaluate the images with equal exposures.  You have to add into this running the Brumbaer tool, the LCC tool, and the Custom Gain Adjuster.  You might need to have some beer on hand.
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thsinar
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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2007, 09:04:22 PM »
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Dear Eric,

the Brumbaer tool is not just a tool to correct lens fall-off and colour cast issues. So in this it cannot be compared to the "Gain Adjuster" & "LLC" tools or SW features of those appications.

Brumbaer is a SW conducting you through the WHOLE workflow, from capturing through dng conversion, with all the steps being automatically applied: white references for colour casts and lens fall-off issues, colour calibrations, centerfold effect removal and highlight recovery are all steps in the DNG conversion which are conducted automatically, without the user having to care about it.

The important here is that this WHOLE process with all its steps described above takes exactly 13 seconds/image on a MBP 2.33 with 2 GB Ram. If you don't have to apply "White References", then it takes only 3-5 seconds per file.

This makes a huge difference when shooting many images and having to correct all this, then converting to DNG. It saves hours of work.

Nevertheless, the beer is always at hand!

Best regards,
Thierry

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When testing backs side by side I found that most had different sensitivities a the same 100 ASA setting.  The Aptus 22 was more than a half stop different than the Aptus 75.  The Aptus 75 was not the same as the P45.  This can make a side by side test a little more time consuming since it is ideal to evaluate the images with equal exposures.  You have to add into this running the Brumbaer tool, the LCC tool, and the Custom Gain Adjuster.  You might need to have some beer on hand.
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« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 09:06:14 PM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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M_M
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2007, 10:51:30 PM »
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Mariusz,

Yes, you can use another Brumbaer tool to shoot tethered, the "Brumbaer eMotion Tethered". I don't know if Stefan has already reeased this, but I have it and it works nicely. It is a simple tool, the images poping up as a preview, with the possibility to "white balance" them (pipette) and select the folder where you want them to be archived.

give me your email contact and I'll send it to you: it is only a few kb's.

edited for ADDENDUM and IMPORTANT remark: BTW, depending on the Mac used, you might perhaps have problems to connect the back. Use a 4.5m FW cable and put a full-charged battery in the eMotion back. This helps.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Thanks Thierry. I just sent you a PM with my email address.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 10:51:59 PM by M_M » Logged
thsinar
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« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2007, 10:54:39 PM »
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Welcome. Got it.

The Tool has been sent. Just un-zip it and drag it in your application folder.

All the best,
Thierry

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Thanks Thierry. I just sent you a PM with my email address.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2007, 11:07:46 PM »
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Hopefully MM you will have knowledgable dealers on each product as Steve Hendrix says.  It would be sad to make an important purchasing decision if you had some duff demos.

If you are doing architecture then probably the CF back is good to test compared to the H3D as then you can connect electronically with shutters from Schneider and Rollei.  If you intend to work with the H body as well then certainly the H3D would make more sense.

Take a look through the HCD28 - its a cracking lens.  Also look closely at the lens corrections in FlexColor in conjunction with this lens.  Look at the image before and after and see just how well corrected it is.  That could be a very valuable lens for your kind of work.

I would also compare how good the tethered workflow is between systems.  And in this respect I mean how simple it is from start to finish to deliver a near finished file.

Enjoy the test!

Jo S. x
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Thanks Jo.

Hasselblad is on my list - I know Flexcolor, I have been using it for years.
CF backs might be very nice, but I do not need electronic shutters, so an H3D is more tempting simply because I would not have to buy a medium format camera. However, I would not use this camera for architecture. I’ve been using a view camera for years and I could not live without movement.

Mariusz
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thsinar
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« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2007, 11:15:58 PM »
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Mariusz,

Your work is outstanding. I definitively understand that you can't be without a view camera!

Best regards,
Thierry

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I’ve been using a view camera for years and I could not live without movement.

Mariusz
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2007, 11:23:07 PM »
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MM

I did a similar test with all the backs about a year ago; I did the test over and over many times until I found the back I liked the most.

It is very difficult to do these tests because so much depends on the software, and it takes quite some time to get to know the software and your preferences. So you are really depended on the dealers know how.

I tested the A75, P45 and H2/39; I did not test the Sinar backs (because they always have different parameters than the other backs: our 50 ISO is really 100 ISO and our highlight recovery is so much better, and bla. bla. bla.)

As an Architectural photographer I use the ISO range from 50-800, so I will suggest you also test your back on high ISO and not only on 50-100 ISO.

I am working with a P45+ and Contax 645 and Cambo with Schneider digital lenses, I am working together with another Architectural photographer and his setup is Leaf A75 and Alpa with Schneider digital lenses. When we compare our files they are very similar in quality. There is a lot of difference (pros and cons) between the backs and the software but the final result are very close.

I chose the P45 back because the back gave me the best files out of the box with C1 software (with the other backs there was always something, we should tweak in the software to fix something I did not like, with C1 the final file was just there the first time and easy). I wanted a setup that just worked from day 1.

To be honest, the Phase rep was superior in knowledge (back and software) over the Leaf and Hasselblad rep. and if it had been the other way around I might have chosen a different back. So this is one IMPORTANT issue to be aware of.

I will suggest you simply shoot the same scene (I did a simple cityscape where I was certain I would run into moiré problems) with all the backs, and if possible side-by-side.

Good luck

Torben
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Thanks Torben,

So, how do you deal with moiré? Have you had any situations where it was impossible to fix it in post? That is one of the things to worry about.

Mariusz
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M_M
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« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2007, 11:33:02 PM »
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When testing backs side by side I found that most had different sensitivities a the same 100 ASA setting.  The Aptus 22 was more than a half stop different than the Aptus 75.  The Aptus 75 was not the same as the P45.  This can make a side by side test a little more time consuming since it is ideal to evaluate the images with equal exposures.  You have to add into this running the Brumbaer tool, the LCC tool, and the Custom Gain Adjuster.  You might need to have some beer on hand.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143482\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Beer might be necessary to digest the results.
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M_M
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« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2007, 11:33:58 PM »
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Mariusz,

Your work is outstanding. I definitively understand that you can't be without a view camera!

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143506\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Thierry. A Sinar P2, I might add. Not a light camera to carry around, but the best there is. I will definitely miss it.
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