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Author Topic: 3100 Woes  (Read 14286 times)
Min
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« on: October 09, 2007, 11:40:57 AM »
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Ive been using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 for a while with my Z3100 with no problems. Now suddenly Im getting roller marks...from the rollers positioned just before the printheads. Called HP to discuss and was told that unless it occurs on an HP paper, they wont service it.

Buyers beware.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Im printing a very broad black area, night sky, and thats where the marks are visible. I had another job 4 weeks ago - very similar with nights skies too...no problems then.

Another question...can i adjust how much ink is laid down on the paper?

Epson has a dialog box for that, ink limits i think....but I cant figure out how to do it with my 3100. I also seem to remember theres a way to adjust ink using photoshop...dotgain?

please...anyone...whats a girl to do...

min    
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rdonson
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 11:52:59 AM »
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Tell HP you're using HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art Paper 310 gsm and see what they say about the marks.

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Another question...can i adjust how much ink is laid down on the paper?
There is no inkload adjustment in the HP drivers like there is in the Epson.  This is controlled by the selection of paper type.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 12:21:46 PM »
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You may need to clean the rollers. The starwheels are after the heads so if it is coming from the pre-head rollers you may benefit from cleaning them
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tomrock
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 04:05:32 PM »
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I have a package of Hahnemuhle sitting right here and under the "Printing on the paper" section it says -- "After several sheets have been printed, transporting problems can arise due to the slight build-up of coating material, which can be easily removed by feeding a standard uncoated sheet through the printer."

Maybe that's the issue?
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Colorwave
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 05:58:39 PM »
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I'm getting pretty frustrated with the paper transport on the Z3100 too.  

I had starwheel roller marks on the roll of paper that came with the printer, the Instant Dry Gloss, but didn't like the paper so figured that it was no big loss.  

Then I had issues with the HP Professional Satin Photo Paper having marks that were thought to be from the starwheels, but ultimately were from the transport rollers that grab the paper.  After replacing the starwheels, we discovered that the marks were coming from too much tension as it pulled the paper off of the roll in back.  Solution:  pull a bunch of paper off of the roll before each print.  PITA.

Now, I'm doing extremely prosaic printing, creating custom PMS color wrapping paper for a TV commercial using thin paper called HP Heavyweight Coated.  It seems to have a different issue.  The paper is getting ripples from the transport rollers that cause it to buckle just upstream of the head path.  I can see a raised ripple before the ink hits it, so it is not an ink load issue.  Because of the lump, I'm getting head strikes that leave the telltale zebra pattern.  The problem is intermittent and completely unpredictable, but very annoying.  

I love my printer when it works, but really think I would not buy another one unless there are significant changes in the paper transport system.  I'd love to run the new Harmon Baryta paper, but understand that it looks awful with roller marks when it passes through the Z3100.  The list of papers that are compatible with this printer is much smaller than Epson and Canon's, and it totally negates the selling point of APS if I can only run a handful of papers successfully.

Frustrated too,
Ron H.


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Min
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2007, 09:35:49 AM »
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"Tell HP you're using HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art Paper 310 gsm and see what they say about the marks."

When HP told me it had to happen on HP paper i told them they had to send me a roll of 42" (aargh its irritating their paper is only 42") and they obliged with a sample roll... should come today...but didnt think to tell them to be sure to send me the 310 gms. Friends and colleges here, DC area, say that HP will request I send them my test if I claim it happens on the HP paper.


"You may need to clean the rollers. The starwheels are after the heads so if it is coming from the pre-head rollers you may benefit from cleaning them"

It is the pre- head rollers...and I told HP that. But when they told me it was more than likely a hardware issue they didnt say anything about cleaning them, i think they are assuming its the star wheel assembly because they have had a lot of issues with it and it shows they weren't really listening...I find that astounding.


"I have a package of Hahnemuhle sitting right here and under the "Printing on the paper" section it says -- "After several sheets have been printed, transporting problems can arise due to the slight build-up of coating material, which can be easily removed by feeding a standard uncoated sheet through the printer."

This I will do this evening... or maybe I'll do it after I run HPs paper. If this works I wonder if HP wil ever think to sell cleaning sheets?


Ron H. - Have you spoken to HP about your rippled HP paper?

Since I was one of the 'first kids on the block' around here to have this machine there are many observing my progress... when i first had it and produced great prints they all wanted one.... now they are all just waiting for Epson to catch up before they buy.


"I love my printer when it works"

i've said the exact thing! Its a fine machine but unreliable and unpredictable, and who can make money with such a thing. I wont even go into the unbelivable software issues i've had. When i told HP about those they said they couldnt help and it was a Dell problem. So, what, now I have to buy an HP box to run my HP paper only HP printer?! Are they next going to require that I tattoo HPs logo on my... sorry....

thanks for the suggestions and support!

min
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rdonson
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2007, 09:56:03 AM »
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My 24" Z3100 has been a very reliable printer on a number of papers.  That said, I don't make my living printing with it so I'm sure you have an entirely different perspective.  

That last firmware/software update was a bit of a challenge and I hope that's why they're taking so long to release version 6.  I hope its a trouble free install.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
f64digital
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2007, 12:01:06 PM »
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"Tell HP you're using HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art Paper 310 gsm and see what they say about the marks."

When HP told me it had to happen on HP paper i told them they had to send me a roll of 42" (aargh its irritating their paper is only 42") and they obliged with a sample roll... should come today...but didnt think to tell them to be sure to send me the 310 gms. Friends and colleges here, DC area, say that HP will request I send them my test if I claim it happens on the HP paper.
"You may need to clean the rollers. The starwheels are after the heads so if it is coming from the pre-head rollers you may benefit from cleaning them"

It is the pre- head rollers...and I told HP that. But when they told me it was more than likely a hardware issue they didnt say anything about cleaning them, i think they are assuming its the star wheel assembly because they have had a lot of issues with it and it shows they weren't really listening...I find that astounding.
"I have a package of Hahnemuhle sitting right here and under the "Printing on the paper" section it says -- "After several sheets have been printed, transporting problems can arise due to the slight build-up of coating material, which can be easily removed by feeding a standard uncoated sheet through the printer."

This I will do this evening... or maybe I'll do it after I run HPs paper. If this works I wonder if HP wil ever think to sell cleaning sheets?
Ron H. - Have you spoken to HP about your rippled HP paper?

Since I was one of the 'first kids on the block' around here to have this machine there are many observing my progress... when i first had it and produced great prints they all wanted one.... now they are all just waiting for Epson to catch up before they buy.
"I love my printer when it works"

i've said the exact thing! Its a fine machine but unreliable and unpredictable, and who can make money with such a thing. I wont even go into the unbelivable software issues i've had. When i told HP about those they said they couldnt help and it was a Dell problem. So, what, now I have to buy an HP box to run my HP paper only HP printer?! Are they next going to require that I tattoo HPs logo on my... sorry....

thanks for the suggestions and support!

min
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145093\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This problem is HP's known issue. I have reported this problem to HP aboyt six months ago. The problem is the hard surface and excesive pressure of the puntch rolls, or transport rolls. I had the same problem on the same papers. The marks have nothing to do with the in limit, nor dirty surfaces (I cleaned the rolls with isoprophylic alcohol, and still the same problem, and had marks also with new transport rolls)

HP changed my transport rolls, but did not solve the problem. I reported it again and they said that the problem was the high relative humidity conditions in the Canary Islands, so they could not solve the problem. It is very important to print on HP hahnemühle papers.

I also owm an Epson7800, and never had this problem with any papers I used, even with third party papers, so I sent prints form the Z3100 and the Epson7800 to HP in Madrid... and two of them were printed on de HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art paper. I told them that I dindn't understand why epson could print with no roller marks and HP could not on its own branded paper with no marks.

It is possible to print on Fibre-based glossy papers with no marks puttin some tape on the rollers, but I still had the marks on the smooth fine art paper...

The onlly solution that HP gave me was the "buy back option"... the HP has gone to HP France last week, and we are wating the money back from HP soon.

We are planning to buy another Epson as preplacement for the Z3100 44''. Will have problems on ink swapp if wy buy a 9880, or will have to pay a lot more to buy a 11880...

HP has done it right, they buyed this machine back, but I preffered they solved the problems with the marks. I think than on some conditions, specially living near the coast with high humidity, this machine thoes not work because is very agressive with the delicate surface of ther art papers....


The Z series need a lot of improvements... HP Barcelona has done it too fast... yes the HP Vivera claims 200 years, but... this inks have an extremelly poor scratch resistance compared to the K3 inks, Z2100 and Z3100 leave roll marks with high humidity conditions, and leave star wheel marks with low humidity conditions....


My English is not very good sorry.

Carlos E.
www.f64digital.com[attachment=3549:attachment]
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 12:09:52 PM by f64digital » Logged
dandeliondigital
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2007, 04:16:10 PM »
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Called HP to discuss and was told that unless it occurs on an HP paper, they wont service it.

Buyers beware.

Has anyone had a similar experience?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi,
I've gotten roller marks too. After running well over 20 different types of media through the printer I got around to trying the sample roll of HP Premium ID Instant Dry Glossy that came with the machine. I got roller marks that made the prints unacceptable. That shocked me because...

1) This paper was included as a sampler
2) Performance was unacceptable. Not just subtle but awful.
3) HP had no comments or interest in solving that one for me. (I have spent the better part of over 10 hours with HP tech on the phone regarding mainly other issues. They are clever).
4) I printed on a different day with a twist and got results that were fine on ID Glossy. I printed successfully on the ID Glossy by reprinting a job that had originally been printed on canvas and used canvas settings (if said settings are remembered in the file---I am guessing they are. Does anyone know for sure?) I tried to get clarification from HP Support but they would not comment.

So then I was ready for doing some exhibition style photo prints (not on RC type paper). So I wanted to try some papers that would lend themselves to B&W photos. Sad to report that on all Fiber Gloss RAG type photo papers I've tried, I've gotten bad marks. (Fiber RAG Glossy F-type surface papers - all that I have tried--3 different brands--LexJet-Innova-Moab). The paper litterally gets crushed by the rollers. HP Support - No response.

They held out hope for me with the firmware update (I have the Z3100ps GP version of the printer). I am waiting for delivery anytime between SEP>DEC, they said.

This threads interests me because it so shocking! Buy Back Program? Wow! This is big news? Xtreme~!

BTW, good photo f64 of how it looks in real life.

I like that comment..."I love my printer when it works." All I can say is "Me too."

It has been a grueling 4.5 months so far. Never boring and never less than challenging.

I just posted a thread RE: HP APS Error Help Needed, so if you know anything about HP APS please look into it. Thanks.

So long for now, TOM
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www.dandeliondigital.com posters and prints
Roscolo
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2007, 08:12:28 PM »
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for f64digital

What is the climate like in your printing area? Do you have air conditioning? Seems putting the printer in a room with an AC unit or dehumidifier would solve the excess humidity that appears to be the cause of your problem.

I'm in the deep South of the United States. We have near tropical humidity here in the summer, but I have my printer in a sealed room and I haven't had these problems. The AC was almost always on on hot, humid days.
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Min
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2007, 09:30:48 PM »
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I was wondering about humidity too. I printed a job a month ago on hahnemuhle photo rag 308...the photos were of the wash dc monuments at night, very large areas of black and the prints were beautiful. a month later i go to print another job, more dc mons at night, big black areas, same paper, printer ink profiles etc, but then these horrible roller marks appear. The only diff was the humidity...it was very high a week ago when the problem started. I got the humidity in the room down to 55%...dont know where it was before that, i just cranked up the ac. but it didnt help the situation at all.

HP talked with me about it the marks but never asked about the humidity and i didnt volunteer. They literally said i was out of luck if the marks didnt appear on the HP hahnemuhle...said they would send me some but when i called back to ask if it had been shipped they said they cant send me paper so they wont send me paper unless i buy it. i had choice words for them.

so i bought it. and had the marks on it too (thank goodness!) although they arent as bad, but still unacceptable. the 'problem' paper is 308 gms and the hp paper is 310 gms with not a huge diff in thickness. i ran the hp paper with the profile i generated with for the problem paper and the marks were far worse...seems like a pressure problem.

i my opinion, if you cant get anywhere with a tech on the phone ask to speak with a supervisor...it worked with my battle with Alienware over a malfunctioning laptop and with HP (sorta)

I have an HP tech coming on monday.

what is ideal humidity? my friend who works at the national gallery doing all the digital magic there has the humidity at 50%...of course they are using all epsons.

so glad to hear that a buy back program maybe out there somewhere.

min
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Min
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 09:38:22 PM »
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the photo from carlos is exactly what im getting.

min
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Colorwave
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2007, 09:51:21 PM »
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Since transport marks seem to be the number one issue with this printer we really need to keep enough heat on HP that they address this problem for this model, not the next Z iteration.  I know that it is quite different, but Adobe just caved in to the groundswell of negative feedback and reverted their forums to the old version, so user feedback can get results sometimes.  

I think that as many calls to tech support as you can stomach and continued reporting and exchange of information on forums is our only hope of keeping this issue on the front burner for HP.

-Ron H.
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f64digital
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2007, 02:55:22 AM »
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for f64digital

What is the climate like in your printing area? Do you have air conditioning? Seems putting the printer in a room with an AC unit or dehumidifier would solve the excess humidity that appears to be the cause of your problem.

I'm in the deep South of the United States. We have near tropical humidity here in the summer, but I have my printer in a sealed room and I haven't had these problems. The AC was almost always on on hot, humid days.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The relative humidity is between 35-65 %. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower... The temperature is about 22 ºC all year. I think the problem could be solved with an AC on all the time... too wastefull isn't it?.

The rolls of paper were stored on a separate room always inside their bags.

Nevertheless I have to say that I haven't had this roller marks with the epson.

Carlos E
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f64digital
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2007, 03:01:38 AM »
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Since transport marks seem to be the number one issue with this printer we really need to keep enough heat on HP that they address this problem for this model, not the next Z iteration.  I know that it is quite different, but Adobe just caved in to the groundswell of negative feedback and reverted their forums to the old version, so user feedback can get results sometimes. 

I think that as many calls to tech support as you can stomach and continued reporting and exchange of information on forums is our only hope of keeping this issue on the front burner for HP.

-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think they couls solve this problem easy... redesigning the rollers with a soft surface, and lower the pressure of the springs used to pressure the paper.

When I was talking to one of the HP technicians in Madrid, they told me that they tried to do this in Barcelona, but had problems with thin papers as normal paper for cad. They told me that the most of their market are CAD-clients and they mostly use thin paper....

Carlos E.
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Rob C
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2007, 05:29:07 AM »
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Carlos E

I live in the Baleares where the humidity is very high too. I have the smaller B9180 fromm HP, and do not find your sort of problem  (yet - tocando madera) with papers. I use Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Bright White 310gsm.

I didn´t know which built-in profile to use with it, so I contacted Hahnemuehle and downloaded their profile for the HP printer and this paper: it was terrible, and produced what looked like banding. So, I used the built-in profile for HP Smooth Fine Art and it works well enough without any sign of banding.

The black/white prints from this printer are superb, and I speak with professional experience of printing my own b/w in a wet darkroom since 57´or so. I find the use of Jessops Heavyweight Photo Matt 230gsm gives lovely prints with this machine. I don´t think this paper is available in Spain - I have a neighbour bring it out from the UK - and it is manufactured in Germany by I don´t know whom. The only reason I do not use it for everything is that only the Hahne paper appears to have a long-life guarantee...

Don´t worry about your use of English - if only my Spanish were half as good!

Hasta luego

Rob C

Edit: I would remark that it takes Hahne papers a longish while to dry properly and to reveal their final colours. Printed one day, I find it is possibly two days later before colour seems settled. This COULD be due to high humidity... makes printing a frustratingly long process.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 06:38:15 AM by Rob C » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2007, 07:24:20 PM »
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I live in the Yucatan peninsula. It can get any more humid than here during the rainy season. Nontheless, my 7600 it's been flawless for 4 years. Sometimes the printer goes without use up for 3 weeks, No clogs after a rutine clean.
No marks, no dings, no banding , no issues.
Too bad Epson-Mexico is a distasteful joke.
Nice try for HP, but I guess they have to go back to the drawing board.
I'll keep my 7600 till Epson comes with a 24" model that does both blacks.
Vivid magenta... my butt!

Eduardo

...........

Quote
Carlos E

I live in the Baleares where the humidity is very high too. I have the smaller B9180 fromm HP, and do not find your sort of problem  (yet - tocando madera) with papers. I use Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Bright White 310gsm.

I didn´t know which built-in profile to use with it, so I contacted Hahnemuehle and downloaded their profile for the HP printer and this paper: it was terrible, and produced what looked like banding. So, I used the built-in profile for HP Smooth Fine Art and it works well enough without any sign of banding.

The black/white prints from this printer are superb, and I speak with professional experience of printing my own b/w in a wet darkroom since 57´or so. I find the use of Jessops Heavyweight Photo Matt 230gsm gives lovely prints with this machine. I don´t think this paper is available in Spain - I have a neighbour bring it out from the UK - and it is manufactured in Germany by I don´t know whom. The only reason I do not use it for everything is that only the Hahne paper appears to have a long-life guarantee...

Don´t worry about your use of English - if only my Spanish were half as good!

Hasta luego

Rob C

Edit: I would remark that it takes Hahne papers a longish while to dry properly and to reveal their final colours. Printed one day, I find it is possibly two days later before colour seems settled. This COULD be due to high humidity... makes printing a frustratingly long process.
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Min
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2007, 09:24:47 PM »
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If the humidity is an issue, its an issue for the paper not the printer...theoretically. I just looked at the specs for the printer...

Humidity recommended operating range     20 to 80% RH
Recommended operating temperature (Celsius)    15 to 35 ° C
Recommended operating temperature (Fahrenheit)    59 to 95 ° F

that seems like a pretty broad range of conditions so even in the real high humidity areas (summer in wash dc is brutally humid) shouldn't be having these problems at all...according to the specs anyway

Too bad for HP...this machine made me money but it was because of the flexibility it offered...so wonderful to not have to purge! but whats the alternative? epson cant offer me that. Canon i guess.

but if its a pressure issue which changes depending on paper couldnt that be address with firmware? course v6 is long passed the promised delivery date....

min
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2007, 04:42:45 AM »
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Quote
If the humidity is an issue, its an issue for the paper not the printer...theoretically. I just looked at the specs for the printer...

Humidity recommended operating range     20 to 80% RH
Recommended operating temperature (Celsius)  15 to 35 ° C
Recommended operating temperature (Fahrenheit)  59 to 95 ° F

In the booklet "HP Designjet Z3100ps GP Photo Printer - Using your printer" under the heading Environmental Specifications you see this:

Operating for standard printing
Temperature range 15°C to 35°C (59°F to 95°F)
Humidity range 20% to 80%

Operating for optimal print-quality
Temperature range 22°C to 26°C (72°F to 79°F)
Humidity range 30% to 60%

Best
George
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2007, 05:40:55 AM »
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From the manual for the base Z3100, HP Designjet Z3100 Photo Printer Series
"Using your printer"  click here



Table 17-10 Printer environmental specifications

Operating for optimal print quality 22°C to 26°C (72°F to 79°F) 30% to 60% RH

Operating for standard printing 15°C to 35°C (59°F to 95°F) 20% to 80% RH

Printer without consumables 5°C to 40°C (41°F to 104°F)

Non-operating packed consumables and printer: -40°C to 60°C (-40°F to 140°F)
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
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