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Author Topic: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk  (Read 27124 times)
Josh-H
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« on: October 10, 2007, 07:45:09 AM »
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Anyone tried it yet?
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John R Smith
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 02:30:42 AM »
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Read about it here -

My Review

John
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Hasselblad 500 C/M, SWC and CFV-39 DB
and a case full of (very old) lenses and other bits
Josh-H
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 06:18:59 AM »
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Read about it here -

My Review

John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you - that was a great write up.
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thierryd
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 08:39:38 AM »
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Anyone tried it yet?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I bought a box with 10 A4.
I have a Z3000. Enough for the calibration, but too small for the profile. I used Ilford profile and I made a profile with PrintFixPro too.
I'm note sure I used the best calibration parameters and I didn't had enough paper to try different calibration.
I used the black and white test print from Keith Cooper. The Ilford and PrintFixPro profile were about the same (PrintFixPro is a bit warmer). Not bad, but too much ink in the dark areas. I just change a bit the PrintFixPro profile and I have something quiet good.
I like the feeling you have when you touch the paper. Does it really look like an old silver halide paper, at least you have the feeling when you touch the paper.  
I made 2 prints with real black and white photographs. Both of them had a very light gray as background. Looking carefully, on an angle I can notice some vertical marks. I don't know if it's the ink or the gloss, and I didn't have any longer paper to make an other test.  
Writing my post with the print next to me, I realize I have marks (obviously gloss) on the back of the print. Time to clean the printer.

A strange thing to notice, I'm very used to print A4 with the Z3100 and I don't have trouble usually. But with this paper it's really a pain in the ass. I must do 6 or 7 try before succeeding in the loading process.
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thierryd
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 09:18:22 AM »
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I find 5 more A4 sheets.

- I change the paper thickness from normal to thick and I don't have any longer trouble with the loading process. (That was my mistake, it's a 310g paper)
- I change the drying time to "extended"
No more glossy marks on the front and the back of the print.
- I print to 600 and 1200 dpi with this trouble:
(see photo 1)
- Then I check the "more passes" options (only with 1200 dpi) and it's perfect:
(see photo 2)
- Because it could be a printhead trouble if I need this option, I do a diagnostic test on Ilford Gold paper, but the print head is fine.

So very good results on Ilford Gold paper but  drying time "extended" and "more passes"

Photo1 [attachment=3572:attachment]
Photo2 [attachment=3573:attachment]
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rdonson
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 09:49:33 AM »
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Thierry,

Thanks for including the photos.  That tells me a lot about the surface of the Ilford paper.  Its not a smooth as I thought it would be.

I wish the reviews of the various papers included shots like that as well.  It would be much easier then to decide on which ones to test.

I'm still disappointed that everyone has reported that the Harman marks up so easily on the Z3100.  I was hoping to test that but now I won't waste my time and money.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
dkeyes
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 01:29:18 AM »
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Tried the Ilford Gold Silk on my z3100, was excited to try because it has a nice, fairly smooth surface. Looks like a satin finish with a slight texture similar to Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl if that makes sense. The gamut and dmax also seem similar between these two papers. What I don't like is that the ink sits right on top and the gloss ink soaks right in. In fact, it's barely perceptible where the gloss overprints the image into the white of the paper. Because of this, the gloss differential is unnacceptable to me. In fact, it's the worst paper for gloss differential I've tried. I also tried without the gloss (just to be sure) and was worse, with added bronzing.

I hope this isn't a trend for Bayarta papers performance on the z3100, as I like how these papers look. Haven't tried the Harmon or Hahnemuhle yet.

- Doug
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Christopher
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 03:19:44 AM »
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Tried the Ilford Gold Silk on my z3100, was excited to try because it has a nice, fairly smooth surface. Looks like a satin finish with a slight texture similar to Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl if that makes sense. The gamut and dmax also seem similar between these two papers. What I don't like is that the ink sits right on top and the gloss ink soaks right in. In fact, it's barely perceptible where the gloss overprints the image into the white of the paper. Because of this, the gloss differential is unnacceptable to me. In fact, it's the worst paper for gloss differential I've tried. I also tried without the gloss (just to be sure) and was worse, with added bronzing.

I hope this isn't a trend for Bayarta papers performance on the z3100, as I like how these papers look. Haven't tried the Harmon or Hahnemuhle yet.

- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157821\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer
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thierryd
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2007, 07:47:16 AM »
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What I don't like is that the ink sits right on top and the gloss ink soaks right in. In fact, it's barely perceptible where the gloss overprints the image into the white of the paper. Because of this, the gloss differential is unnacceptable to me.
Have you seen so the called "baryta" papers on other printers ? Until now all the prints I saw on those papers looked as traditional fiber paper if you were looking at the back of the print or if you were looking at the feeling when you were touching the papers. But the gloss was something new, neither traditional paper, neither digital paper. And the most disturbing look to my eyes was Harman FB prints made on an Epson I have seen in a photoshow. (And the Innova was strange too.) It's like pearl with a glossy look.
But everyone around me was happy and convinced it was like traditional fiber paper. Long time I made baryta prints, and prints were different between paper and chemical brands, but I can't remember baryta prints which had such aspect.
So just look at these papers like something new and not like "baryta like" papers. You like them or you don't. Choice is one of the great thing of the digital area.
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This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer smile.gif
But I'm not convinced it has something to do with the printer.
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TylerB
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2007, 11:53:55 AM »
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I've tried samples of all these new papers, and I like this one best so far.
There are a lot of silver prints lying around here too, and it's surface is closest to Portriga of any of them. It is also not blue.
The others have their attributes as well, but the B&W fanatics around here seem to gravitate towards the Ilford. All of the comments about the Harman have been that though it is impressive, it looks like a gloss RC paper.
They have some 5 sheet packages, I'd recommend trying it for yourself.
The new F types have all been through here, I don't think there is an offering I haven't yet seen... perhaps the Moab.
Seeing Doug's informative post, I have to say my tests have all been on an Epson.
Tyler
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 01:26:59 PM »
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I've tried samples of all these new papers, and I like this one best so far.
There are a lot of silver prints lying around here too, and it's surface is closest to Portriga of any of them. It is also not blue.
The others have their attributes as well, but the B&W fanatics around here seem to gravitate towards the Ilford. All of the comments about the Harman have been that though it is impressive, it looks like a gloss RC paper.
They have some 5 sheet packages, I'd recommend trying it for yourself.
The new F types have all been through here, I don't think there is an offering I haven't yet seen... perhaps the Moab.
Seeing Doug's informative post, I have to say my tests have all been on an Epson.
Tyler
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Tyler,

I think you have not seen the Sihl Professional Photo Baryt 290 gsm which I like, semi matte and a bit warm. Then there is the Fuji Fine Art Museum Baryte Paper 300 sqm that is more white and glossier but curls like the Innova Type F gloss. Of the Fuji I only have a 7x7 cm sample, trying to get proof sheets.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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TylerB
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2007, 02:29:17 PM »
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Thanks Ernst, I'll look for them. If you have tried the Ilford, did you see the problems Doug did? You both have the same printer, right?
I don't want to be spouting off about it if there are problems...

In fact, I have no HP experience, and curious about how all these papers look on HP.
Tyler
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2007, 03:01:58 PM »
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Thanks Ernst, I'll look for them. If you have tried the Ilford, did you see the problems Doug did? You both have the same printer, right?
I don't want to be spouting off about it if there are problems...

In fact, I have no HP experience, and curious about how all these papers look on HP.
Tyler
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I still have to get the Hahnemuhle range of fibers but I rather wait till I can get all of them and I have to get the Ilford range as well.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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dkeyes
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 02:49:56 AM »
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This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No printer will work with every paper. I think the paper manufacturers are going to have to design papers for specific printers to get optimal performance, like Hahnemuhle has done for HP. Up until this year, most professional photo papers were probably made with Epson in mind, thus many more have performed well on Epson printers than HP (or Canon for that matter). I imagine it's much harder to make a good paper that works on all three printers (canon, epson, hp).

When it comes to glossy or satin/pearl papers (fiber or otherwise) there are only a few papers that work great for each printer out there right now. (at least that's my experience with HP and Epson)
My definition of great is no gloss differential, bronzing or metamerism; with large color gamut and great blacks. Not to mention on a neutral white base with a smooth surface. (no curling, heavy weight and durable are nice too). Oh yea, 44" rolls.

- Doug
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Hendrik
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 03:07:12 AM »
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I made a first print on a R2400 and profiles from Ilford. I still have to inspect more closely and haven't decided yet.

I compared against the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss 285gsm. The surface of the Ilford is more like their pearl paper. It's smooth and flat. The Innova paper has more texture, neutral white and (very subjective) looks more high class. Both are very good, although the Ilford profile is not neutral, so I have to make profiles if I want to use it.

... at this moment I lean to the Innova paper.

Some mention the problems with gloss differential, but if you spray the surface with a product like PremierArt Print Shield, would it not improve this aspect?
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Fred Ragland
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2007, 09:24:50 AM »
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Tyler,

I think you have not seen the Sihl Professional Photo Baryt 290 gsm which I like, semi matte and a bit warm...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157979\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Any idea of where to get this in the U.S.?

Thanks,

Fred
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deanwork
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« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2007, 01:27:10 PM »
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Because of the nature of the totally different ( and innovative) glop channel on the Z3100 it is critical that the amount of glop be linearized specifically for that emulsion. Hp has their basic set up standard for their Satin and Gloss rc papers that are even different than Epson rc emulsions and perform perfectly with the Z without any spraying needed. The Ilford Gold is totally a new animal. And, I agree, it was surely created with Epson K3 in mind because that is major market at this point in time, especially for desktop units, but also for mid sized and large format models.

john



Quote
No printer will work with every paper. I think the paper manufacturers are going to have to design papers for specific printers to get optimal performance, like Hahnemuhle has done for HP. Up until this year, most professional photo papers were probably made with Epson in mind, thus many more have performed well on Epson printers than HP (or Canon for that matter). I imagine it's much harder to make a good paper that works on all three printers (canon, epson, hp).

When it comes to glossy or satin/pearl papers (fiber or otherwise) there are only a few papers that work great for each printer out there right now. (at least that's my experience with HP and Epson)
My definition of great is no gloss differential, bronzing or metamerism; with large color gamut and great blacks. Not to mention on a neutral white base with a smooth surface. (no curling, heavy weight and durable are nice too). Oh yea, 44" rolls.

- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158877\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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kers
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2007, 02:22:11 PM »
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This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
On the Z3100 Epson exhibion fibre  works very well on the z3100 with the gloss enhancer... almost perfect-no gloss differential to worry about and a very rich gamut. I believe even no rollermarks!
A very nice paper only unlucky - you cannot by it in rolls and very expensive
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 02:54:04 PM by kers » Logged

Pieter Kers
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2007, 09:52:45 AM »
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Any idea of where to get this in the U.S.?

Thanks,

Fred
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[a href=\"http://www.sihlusa.com/home/Dealer-locator.htm]http://www.sihlusa.com/home/Dealer-locator.htm[/url]

specs of the baryta paper:
http://www.sihl.com/content/Products.aspx?...ID=42&FamID=214


Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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Fred Ragland
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2007, 10:05:26 AM »
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http://www.sihlusa.com/home/Dealer-locator.htm

specs of the baryta paper:
http://www.sihl.com/content/Products.aspx?...ID=42&FamID=214
Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162684\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you Ernst.

Before sending my original message, I checked with Sihl USA and the salesman said he didn't show it listed in his catalogue.  I'll try again after they reopen following the holidays.

Best wishes,

Fred
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