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Author Topic: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk  (Read 27126 times)
KeithR
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2007, 04:10:23 PM »
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Thank you Ernst.

Before sending my original message, I checked with Sihl USA and the salesman said he didn't show it listed in his catalogue. I'll try again after they reopen following the holidays.

Best wishes,

Fred
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Check B&H. I did a search on their site and found it. Not all sizes in stock, but they do list it.
[a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?shs=ilford+gold+silk+fibre&ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...earch&Q=*&bhs=t[/url]
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 04:12:55 PM by KeithR » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2007, 04:30:25 PM »
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Check B&H. I did a search on their site and found it. Not all sizes in stock, but they do list it.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...earch&Q=*&bhs=t
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162938\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]Thanks Keith. The thread opened up to include Sihl Professional Photo Baryt after Ernst commented on it.  That's what I'm looking for.

Best wishes,

Fred
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USA_Stewart
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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 06:48:11 PM »
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On the Z3100 Epson exhibion fibre  works very well on the z3100 with the gloss enhancer... almost perfect-no gloss differential to worry about and a very rich gamut. I believe even no rollermarks!
A very nice paper only unlucky - you cannot by it in rolls and very expensive
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162531\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Kers,

What calibration settings did you use when printing the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HP Z3100?

-Stewart
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bowa
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« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2007, 07:01:58 PM »
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This paper is STILL toooo glossy for me.

I long for the old silver papers like wet darkroom Gallerie or even better, EMACS Glossy when air dried.

Ilford Gold still seems to be an RC paper with a flat, glossy surface whenever you look at it from a few degrees angle.

It seems to me as if all semigloss papers are essentially the same. The give wonderful colors and deep DMAX, but they still give me a feeling of looking through a reflecting and FLATTENING window glass of some kind.

Matte papers are much worse considering 'pop' and DMAX, but the give a sense of DEPTH that I have not seen yet in a semigloss paper.

Give me Epson Velvet Fine Art with at smoother surface and a deeper DMAX, but without the plastic membrane or glossy 'window' that plagues the current semigloss papers!

BR / Bo
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kers
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2007, 10:53:52 AM »
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Kers,

What calibration settings did you use when printing the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HP Z3100?

-Stewart
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I did not have enough paper to make a profile so I used for a small test the profile I had from the ifford Gold silk paper and their paper settings-  Fine Art Pearl Paper (more ink)- and the provided ICC for the z3100- it looked allright.  
update: the paper has some gloos differential in colour prints and almost none in black and white.
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Pieter Kers
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2007, 08:32:34 AM »
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Give me Epson Velvet Fine Art with at smoother surface and a deeper DMAX, but without the plastic membrane or glossy 'window' that plagues the current semigloss papers!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Amen! Few reviews touched upon the non-matte papers' reflective surface. Perhaps that's why few users are aware of it, or bothered by it.

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21302&st=0&p=157244&#entry157244]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....44&#entry157244[/url]

If the manufacturers are not hearing from the masses, they sure won't produce such a paper, even if it is possible.
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USA_Stewart
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2007, 11:30:04 PM »
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(Regarding Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper) I did not have enough paper to make a profile so I used for a small test the profile I had from the ifford Gold silk paper and their paper settings-  Fine Art Pearl Paper (more ink)- and the provided ICC for the z3100- it looked allright. 
update: the paper has some gloos differential in colour prints and almost none in black and white.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163608\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Kers,

Since my last post, I have experimented more with printing Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HPZ3100 printer. I have eliminated the roller marks I was getting during calibration. My final prints look beautiful on this paper.

Here's what I have done because EEF is not documented on the Z3100 printer:
(I am using Firmware 6008, HP Utility 3.1, and Driver 5.1)

In the HP Print Monitor choose "manage papers."
Click on the plus sign. This brings up the "Add custom paper" dialogue box.
Type in "Epson Exhibition Fiber". Then click on "Paper Type."
Select "Fine Art Material" and under that select "Fine Art Pearl (more ink)".
Then click on "Change Printing Properties" and under Dry Time select "Extended".
Note that when I calibrated the paper with these settings I did get some roller marks on the calibration sheet. However, I then profiled the paper with "Gloss Enhancer" off. I printed out of Lightroom and selected "Best Quality", "GE OFF", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."
The resulting prints are excellent with NO roller marks. There seems to be no need for the gloss enhancer with this paper. The paper looks very much like an air dried fiber based print. Some may think it has a little more shine than they are use to, but when I was fiber printing, I learned from photographer Ruth Bernhard that you could steam fiber based prints to bring out more shine if they dried too dull. She said she steamed many of her prints. These EEF prints look to me like fiber based, air dried prints that have been steamed. They are quite beautiful.

If you or anyone else have done something different and had good results, please let me know.

-Stewart
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Colorwave
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« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2008, 01:20:08 AM »
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Check B&H. I did a search on their site and found it. Not all sizes in stock, but they do list it.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...earch&Q=*&bhs=t
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162938\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Has anybody managed to find the Sihl paper Ernst mentioned in the US in roll form?  All B&H carries is 13"x19".  Sihl never replied to my request for a US dealer, and seems to focus almost exclusively in signage media vs. fine art in our market.
-Ron H.
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deanwork
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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2008, 12:54:35 PM »
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Stewart,

This method of eliminating the roller marks still working for ya, with the gloss enhancer channel turned off? I am very interested in using the Ilford Gold this way. The Epson is way too expensive.

John

PS- I visited Ruth Bernhard in her studio in San Francisco 1978 and  bought one of those prints for $60.00. Man if I had only bought a dozen of the nudes back then! She was using Portriga Rapid and Brovira at that time. That is when I started using Portriga with Benzatriazole restrainer in the developer, and toned in Selenium after seeing her prints. That was before Ilford Gallery came out. I know what you are talking about, but didn't know that was how she got her Portriga papers to shine more. Interesting. You learn something every day.





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Kers,

Since my last post, I have experimented more with printing Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HPZ3100 printer. I have eliminated the roller marks I was getting during calibration. My final prints look beautiful on this paper.

Here's what I have done because EEF is not documented on the Z3100 printer:
(I am using Firmware 6008, HP Utility 3.1, and Driver 5.1)

In the HP Print Monitor choose "manage papers."
Click on the plus sign. This brings up the "Add custom paper" dialogue box.
Type in "Epson Exhibition Fiber". Then click on "Paper Type."
Select "Fine Art Material" and under that select "Fine Art Pearl (more ink)".
Then click on "Change Printing Properties" and under Dry Time select "Extended".
Note that when I calibrated the paper with these settings I did get some roller marks on the calibration sheet. However, I then profiled the paper with "Gloss Enhancer" off. I printed out of Lightroom and selected "Best Quality", "GE OFF", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."
The resulting prints are excellent with NO roller marks. There seems to be no need for the gloss enhancer with this paper. The paper looks very much like an air dried fiber based print. Some may think it has a little more shine than they are use to, but when I was fiber printing, I learned from photographer Ruth Bernhard that you could steam fiber based prints to bring out more shine if they dried too dull. She said she steamed many of her prints. These EEF prints look to me like fiber based, air dried prints that have been steamed. They are quite beautiful.

If you or anyone else have done something different and had good results, please let me know.

-Stewart
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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TylerB
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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2008, 05:01:28 PM »
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Stewart,

...

PS- I visited Ruth Bernhard in her studio in San Francisco 1978 and  bought one of those prints for $60.00. Man if I had only bought a dozen of the nudes back then! She was using Portriga Rapid and Brovira at that time. That is when I started using Portriga with Benzatriazole restrainer in the developer, and toned in Selenium after seeing her prints. That was before Ilford Gallery came out. I know what you are talking about, but didn't know that was how she got her Portriga papers to shine more. Interesting. You learn something every day.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OT, this-
I had come to the same combination of materials via different mentors, and had noticed the gloss or lack of it was uneven in the prints. So, after squeegying and laying out on the racks, I'd hit the lot of them with a hair dryer, you could watch the gloss sheen rise very quickly, then let them dry the rest of the way on their own.
When she looked over my prints at a workshop, she imediately told me exactly what I was using, including the additives, and she as right. It's a beautiful and unique look. One of my favorite teachers, few left on the planet.
Tyler
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thierryd
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« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2008, 10:22:36 AM »
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Stewart,

This method of eliminating the roller marks still working for ya, with the gloss enhancer channel turned off? I am very interested in using the Ilford Gold this way. The Epson is way too expensive.

John

I'm using the Ilford Gold on sheet and roll with gloss enhancer and without roller mark, until now, on Z3100 with the same selections than Steward.
Dry Time select "Extended".
 "Best Quality", "GE ON", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."
I printed many A4, a few A3 but anything bigger until now.
There is cotton gloves inside the roll box, I use them for loading and unloading the roll,  and I'm very cautious during 24h for fingerprint on the prints.
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TylerB
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« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2008, 01:16:52 PM »
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This paper is STILL toooo glossy for me.

I long for the old silver papers like wet darkroom Gallerie or even better, EMACS Glossy when air dried.

Ilford Gold still seems to be an RC paper with a flat, glossy surface whenever you look at it from a few degrees angle.

It seems to me as if all semigloss papers are essentially the same. The give wonderful colors and deep DMAX, but they still give me a feeling of looking through a reflecting and FLATTENING window glass of some kind.

Matte papers are much worse considering 'pop' and DMAX, but the give a sense of DEPTH that I have not seen yet in a semigloss paper.

Give me Epson Velvet Fine Art with at smoother surface and a deeper DMAX, but without the plastic membrane or glossy 'window' that plagues the current semigloss papers!

BR / Bo
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163477\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm sure the last thing you'd want to hear is yet another paper recommendation, I've certainly spent way too much time testing all these new offerings, and still turning back to the beauty and richness of the coated fine art papers for my personal work.
However, if the Ilford is still a bit too glossy for you, you might take a look at FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte, in many ways it's the closest to some silver prints I have over the years and deserves more attention. The other thing I'm much more sensitive to now with that kind of comparison- there was actually more variety in those surfaces than we may remember.
My old Portriga prints have a very different surface then my old PAL prints, both lovely.
Tyler
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deanwork
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« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2008, 01:45:44 PM »
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Well that is exactly where I am right now. The Innova Semi-Matte (Satin) is to me the best surface of all these papers and I love it's gamut and sharpness. However...the damn base is just too blue. We've talked about that. The Ilford Gold has a nice surface but a little too glossy as stated, more like rc but the gamut is killer and the sharpness amazing. I dare say though that most of my clients would not know the difference between the Gold and the thick HP Satin rc for instance even when held in ones hands. Behind glass, you are loosing any difference completely.

I think the Innova and Silver Rag are different, they actually feel and look like fiber papers. The texture of Silver Rag and Hahnemuhle Pearl are a bit strange, the Innova is too blue ( put a rag matte around it and see what I am talking about, and that is just way too much oba content for long term dependability in my view), the Ilford is a tad too slick. Man we're a hard bunch to please! Heaven help me maybe I'll have to try the Epson fiber.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Ilford Gold, because of the outstanding gamut ,  look, who is going to pay that much for the others. I simply can't afford it. They are almost twice the price. I  can't stock all these things and once you start with clients they want to continue with your choice for shows and editions. And, it isn't an easy choice because they keep moving the goal post on us.

john









Quote
I'm sure the last thing you'd want to hear is yet another paper recommendation, I've certainly spent way too much time testing all these new offerings, and still turning back to the beauty and richness of the coated fine art papers for my personal work.
However, if the Ilford is still a bit too glossy for you, you might take a look at FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte, in many ways it's the closest to some silver prints I have over the years and deserves more attention. The other thing I'm much more sensitive to now with that kind of comparison- there was actually more variety in those surfaces than we may remember.
My old Portriga prints have a very different surface then my old PAL prints, both lovely.
Tyler
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TylerB
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« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2008, 04:43:20 PM »
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...Heaven help me maybe I'll have to try the Epson fiber.

...

john
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165474\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't want to diminish anyone's enthusiasm for this paper, but it really is the F Type Ultrasmooth just a hair thicker.
It measures identically, values look identical, the surface is identical, gloss differential and bronzing are identical.
It's great if the increased thickness makes it more desirable to some users, but in your case, you saw the Innova, so you've seen the Epson. Nice paper.
Tyler
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 04:43:52 PM by TylerB » Logged
Kenneth Sky
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« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2008, 08:04:35 PM »
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Info for Canucks: It's here but not at the retailers yet. Apparently it arrived in early Dec. but retailers were reluctant to stock it during the Xmas rush. Retailers in the Toronto area are now ordering it from the distributor. The distributor says there is a difference with Ilford in that the baryta is not a surface coat but mixed in with the fibres.
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deanwork
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« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2008, 08:14:45 PM »
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Tyler,

I used the Innova US Gloss and liked it. It's colder isn't it? Or do they have a warmer version.

john




Quote
I don't want to diminish anyone's enthusiasm for this paper, but it really is the F Type Ultrasmooth just a hair thicker.
It measures identically, values look identical, the surface is identical, gloss differential and bronzing are identical.
It's great if the increased thickness makes it more desirable to some users, but in your case, you saw the Innova, so you've seen the Epson. Nice paper.
Tyler
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Peter Frahm
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« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2008, 08:16:40 PM »
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I don't want to diminish anyone's enthusiasm for this paper, but it really is the F Type Ultrasmooth just a hair thicker.
It measures identically, values look identical, the surface is identical, gloss differential and bronzing are identical.
It's great if the increased thickness makes it more desirable to some users, but in your case, you saw the Innova, so you've seen the Epson. Nice paper.
Tyler
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165511\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tyler,

I agree with what you are saying, the Epson Fiber is very similar to the Innova Ultra Smooth gloss in terms of the finished, printed look..d-max, tonality etc.

 The thickness isn't the only difference though..the other difference is that the Epson paper sits flat and stays flat. I find that the Innova gloss papers are all over the place they curl and they buckle. The Epson Fiber's flatness makes handling, storage and presentation a lot easier, not to mention, no head strikes. I had frequent head strike issues with the Innova papers.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 08:17:49 PM by Peter Frahm » Logged
deanwork
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2008, 08:41:07 AM »
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Tyler,

I believe he is right about that. All the Innova papers curl a lot and this one of the issues when they were used in the Z series printers. But the Epson could very well be made by Innova with something added to keep them flat. They made a similar arrangement with Premiere Art a while back.

Is the Epson base warmer or not?  I'm holding several of these in my hands right now and both the Innova Ultrasmooth Gloss and the Innova Satin are way bluer than the Ilford and Harmon papers. Way bluer. I don't have any of the Epson here. The bluer papers just look artificial to me, for black and white in particular. For some color things I don't mind it as much, but it isn't ideal.

john




Quote
Tyler,

I agree with what you are saying, the Epson Fiber is very similar to the Innova Ultra Smooth gloss in terms of the finished, printed look..d-max, tonality etc.

 The thickness isn't the only difference though..the other difference is that the Epson paper sits flat and stays flat. I find that the Innova gloss papers are all over the place they curl and they buckle. The Epson Fiber's flatness makes handling, storage and presentation a lot easier, not to mention, no head strikes. I had frequent head strike issues with the Innova papers.
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TylerB
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2008, 09:51:20 AM »
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Peter, I have no doubt that you are right. I was not thinking of paper handling in my comments, I'm only looking at measurements, tests, at this point. The points you make are obviously important.
John, you've seen the image quality exactly, and the base is still blue. I have letter size prints of the Atkinson test image on both side by side. If they were not labeled you would not be able to distinguish them. I'm sure the thicker base was to help with the issues Peter mentions.
Tyler
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picnic
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« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2008, 10:39:00 AM »
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Tyler,

I agree with what you are saying, the Epson Fiber is very similar to the Innova Ultra Smooth gloss in terms of the finished, printed look..d-max, tonality etc.

 The thickness isn't the only difference though..the other difference is that the Epson paper sits flat and stays flat. I find that the Innova gloss papers are all over the place they curl and they buckle. The Epson Fiber's flatness makes handling, storage and presentation a lot easier, not to mention, no head strikes. I had frequent head strike issues with the Innova papers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165538\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tyler (or anyone else that has experience with a number of these papers), above you mentioned the Innova F Semi Matte.  I had earlier settled on this paper of all the F types I sampled (Innova, Museo, Hahnemuhle) but have packs of the new Harman, Ilford, EEF on order.  I haven't yet ordered the new Hahnemuhle.  My question is about the coldness/blue factor.  I like a warmer paper--thus am hoping I like the Ilford.  But--looking at my samples of the Innova Semi matte, I find it a bit warmer than say, the Hahnemuhle FAP.  I can't find my other samples from Innova at the moment--and don't think I had the F USG, but I'd like you or someone, if they can, to give me their opinions on the base color of all of these--how you see them.  I read Michael's review--which was why I felt the Ilford may be the paper (all other things considered) I'd prefer, but I am going to do my own samplings (3800).

TIA, Diane
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