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Author Topic: H'blad drops the other shoe...  (Read 28244 times)
canmiya
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« on: October 11, 2007, 08:53:10 AM »
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i was just checking out michael's "what's new " page and came across this:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/
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Dustbak
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 09:16:58 AM »
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It has also been mentioned in another thread. I am not sure where that leaves me at the moment.

I use a CF39 and H2. I was thinking about upgrading towards multishot but will be holding of that decision until I can get some confirmation that I am not on a dead track.

I specifically went for the CF because of the adapterplate system. Now, I just wonder when Hasselblad will be leaving the CF route

I might be tempted to upgrade the whole thing towards the H3DII39MS if I can get a decent upgrade price but I have heard figures of upgrading an H3D39 to a H3D39II of over 15K USD which I find ridiculous!
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Caracalla
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 09:43:52 AM »
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It has also been mentioned in another thread. I am not sure where that leaves me at the moment.

I use a CF39 and H2. I was thinking about upgrading towards multishot but will be holding of that decision until I can get some confirmation that I am not on a dead track.

I specifically went for the CF because of the adapterplate system. Now, I just wonder when Hasselblad will be leaving the CF route

I might be tempted to upgrade the whole thing towards the H3DII39MS if I can get a decent upgrade price but I have heard figures of upgrading an H3D39 to a H3D39II of over 15K USD which I find ridiculous!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145315\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I was thinking of the same thing but decided to upgrade anyway to H3DII39MS only  the price tag I got quoted today for the Complete Kit is US$40,680 less the 80mm lens I already own, Delivery January 2008. If I upgrade, there is more room for comfortable price difference.

I have to say after looking at the H3DII39 model I was immpressed,
esspecialy now with MS you are basically looking at complete camera to fit any occasion.

The H3DII39/H3DII39MS back will work on Mamiya RZ67, View Cameras... perhaps locked, but compatible enough!!!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 10:00:16 AM by Caracalla » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 09:47:48 AM »
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Excuse me!!!Huh?? 40K USD as an ugrade from the H2CF39 to the H3D39IIMS?Huh

I know it works on quite a few bodies but the one I really like, it will not. I will have to get another back as well.

I got the CF for the plates and possibility to upgrade to multishot. Who in his right mind is upgrading towards a dead end and upgrading to the H3blablaMS is absurd for 40K!

It is starting to feel really painful somewhere in the back.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 10:35:04 AM by Dustbak » Logged
cerett
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 09:52:01 AM »
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Any thoughts on how this will impact the sale of used H1/H2's?
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MarkKay
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 09:56:19 AM »
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This makes me very angry.  Every few months or so Hasselblad changes their strategy on equipment that costs more than many automobiles. This is absurd.  I remember less than a year ago, the  Hasselblad  CEO stated they were going to continue the H2 line as they developed their closed H3D systems.  However, this might drive the prices of the used H2s up since there are still a lot of folks who like the non-hassy digital backs.

Quote
It has also been mentioned in another thread. I am not sure where that leaves me at the moment.

I use a CF39 and H2. I was thinking about upgrading towards multishot but will be holding of that decision until I can get some confirmation that I am not on a dead track.

I specifically went for the CF because of the adapterplate system. Now, I just wonder when Hasselblad will be leaving the CF route

I might be tempted to upgrade the whole thing towards the H3DII39MS if I can get a decent upgrade price but I have heard figures of upgrading an H3D39 to a H3D39II of over 15K USD which I find ridiculous!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145315\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Caracalla
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 09:58:56 AM »
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Excuse me!!!Huh?? 40K USD as an ugrade from the H2CF39 to the H3D39IIMS?Huh
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145321\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I mean, US$40,680 is not the upgrade but the Complete Kit. However, I already own the lens, perhaps they can replace it with HC150mm N with no additional cost.

I always negotiate the price as if I'm buying Complete Kit, after I negotiate the upgrade to see if there are any benifits to returning customers.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 10:04:14 AM by Caracalla » Logged
samuel_js
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 11:54:16 AM »
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[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']There's already a thread about this here:
[/span]
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20194



/Samuel
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 01:12:47 PM by samuel_js » Logged
Streetshooter
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 12:20:27 PM »
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Well I must say this comes as no surprise, it's been on the cards for a while hasn't it ? What does surprise me is the anger of those photographers who knew it was coming and still bought the H2.

Just wait until they're the last man standing, and see how much their upgrade prices are then !  Quite frankly the new Canon 1Ds 111 is looking more appealing every day.

Pete
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Dustbak
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 12:33:17 PM »
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It is not so just the H2, it is also the fact that Hasselblad is closing out everybody that has a Hasselblad/Imacon back that is not a H3 back.

I own a Hasselblad back but find myself soon unable to mount it on a current Hasselblad body. There are a lot of people that are in the same situation. I was just starting to enjoy using the H. I guess for my next upgrade I will be seriously considering a Sinar Hy6 multishot (unless they want to drop the adapterplate system as well).

It feels like Hasselblad is screwing over everybody including their current customer base, everybody but new owners.

I can understand people to be upset.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 12:34:07 PM by Dustbak » Logged
ixpressraf
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 01:02:52 PM »
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I do not agree with this vision.
First: hasselblad is now creating the best possible DSLR in Mf. In film days you could not mount a mamiya back on a bronica and others.
The HY6 platform also is a " closed " platform just in the way the H2F seems to be.
Phase is surely re-vitalising a well know medium format system that vanished some time ago, or they are building a new one themselves ( with carl zeiss i think as CZ has no possibillities anymore to sell their lenses but has the legal rights for the contax 645 stuff.)
mamiya will soon when their ZDII wil appear also close their system: that is the only way t survive.
Second: When you do an upgrade to a new back, the body-upgrade is almost always included. So i think it is not that bad thing as many like to think.
It is a very small and competative marked in wich we have to much players at the moment and some will have to go.....
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 01:04:03 PM by ixpressraf » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 01:12:05 PM »
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We will see, when Hasselblad is on the level they should provide really appealing upgrade deals.

As I said. I might be tempted to swap my CF for a H3MS but it better be a good deal since that also means giving up a system that I rapidly grew in love with (the adapter plates.).

Otherwise I wished Hasselblad would make the CF fit the H3, now that would make me really happy.
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2007, 01:39:47 PM »
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I do not agree with this vision.
First: hasselblad is now creating the best possible DSLR in Mf. In film days you could not mount a mamiya back on a bronica and others.
The HY6 platform also is a " closed " platform just in the way the H2F seems to be.
Phase is surely re-vitalising a well know medium format system that vanished some time ago, or they are building a new one themselves ( with carl zeiss i think as CZ has no possibillities anymore to sell their lenses but has the legal rights for the contax 645 stuff.)
mamiya will soon when their ZDII wil appear also close their system: that is the only way t survive.
Second: When you do an upgrade to a new back, the body-upgrade is almost always included. So i think it is not that bad thing as many like to think.
It is a very small and competative marked in wich we have to much players at the moment and some will have to go.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145354\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In the film days you could put any film you liked in your back, why would you put another camera back on your body ? That comparison can't be made here.

Hasselblad might be " creating the best possible DSLR in MF " but that's a matter of personal opinion. What they are undoubtedly doing is creating the most expensive. As their unit sales drop the prices are going to have to rise. They can't keep screwing around with their current users, the market is not that big. They are playing a dangerous game. The way all the MF makers are behaving at the moment is bad for the MF market in general. Prospective MFDB buyers are just going to buy the latest high megapixel SLR from Nikon or Canon at a fraction of the price and still be able to use their old lenses at the same time. Irrespective of the fact they will not be getting the MF look.

Not everyone is fooled by slick marketing bull.... all the time.

Pete
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2007, 02:00:02 PM »
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In the film days you could put any film you liked in your back, why would you put another camera back on your body ? That comparison can't be made here.

Hasselblad might be " creating the best possible DSLR in MF " but that's a matter of personal opinion. What they are undoubtedly doing is creating the most expensive. As their unit sales drop the prices are going to have to rise. They can't keep screwing around with their current users, the market is not that big. They are playing a dangerous game. The way all the MF makers are behaving at the moment is bad for the MF market in general. Prospective MFDB buyers are just going to buy the latest high megapixel SLR from Nikon or Canon at a fraction of the price and still be able to use their old lenses at the same time. Irrespective of the fact they will not be getting the MF look.

Not everyone is fooled by slick marketing bull.... all the time.

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145357\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You still can perfectly use all your lenses and even more when time goes by. So why all the fuss. You upgrade every 3 to 5 years so there is no reason for panic. The upgrade possibilities are perfect and backs always get better. Perhaps you can upgrade to the new Phase camera....
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josayeruk
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2007, 02:05:48 PM »
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But you could put any film of choice in your back. And everytime a new film emulsion came out you could upgrade at the cost of the new film only.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Its becoming pointless to keep comparing film to digital.
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jonstewart
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2007, 02:28:35 PM »
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It's very interesting, in light of the other threads where I have expressed my dislike of such a closed system, to read other responses on this thread.

At the end of the day, Hasselblad are going to lock everybody who wants to shoot Hasselblad into 1 or 2 camera bodies, 1 small range of backs, 1 set of lenses, and then dictate when you upgrade and what you upgrade to, helping you in that choice by discontinuing your current system, and therefore sending resale prices though the floor, unless, of course, you spend huge amounts of money upgrading through their 'official upgrade path'.

This would be more acceptable if they were producing a camera system which was much better than any other camera at everything... but lets face it, it's the real world, and while the product will be very good, it won't be that good.

I got the impression some people thought I was being a little cynical about Hassleblad's developments, in light of apparent marketing strategies. I wonder do they think that now?

Anyway, it's only money...but not mine!  
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Jon Stewart

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godtfred
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2007, 02:28:43 PM »
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But you could put any film of choice in your back. And everytime a new film emulsion came out you could upgrade at the cost of the new film only.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
How much did the (film)back maker get every time you bought some Kodak or Fuji stock? And could you "upgrade" your film back when a new technology arrived (to one that held the film flatter, maybe with that cool new vacuum technology everybody was raving about?)

On another note, I don't support the "new" strategy from Hasselblad at all. There will always be full support for open standards from my camp. It just seems I will not have that luxury (sadly.)

-axel
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 02:31:16 PM by godtfred » Logged

Axel Bauer
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PatrikR
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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2007, 03:00:11 PM »
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You still can perfectly use all your lenses and even more when time goes by. So why all the fuss. You upgrade every 3 to 5 years so there is no reason for panic. The upgrade possibilities are perfect and backs always get better. Perhaps you can upgrade to the new Phase camera....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145361\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I believe that Phase One is simply too strong competition and such a power player in this camera war. Now that H1 and H2 has become the vehicle for Phase Ones recent success Hasselblad is cutting Phase One off.

Hasselblad knows that H2 is currently the best platform for Phase One backs. Just forcing people to use a sync cable is a dirty enough trick to handicap H2 as a Phase One platform of choice. Phase One probably sells more H-series systems than Hasselblad currently their DSLRs and this must be a big embarassement and scare for Hasselblad. Since Phase One is still the strongest and owned by some very rich people and companies, Hasselblad can't even buy them from distorting the market. Time will tell. These are ofcourse my guesses only.

But as a H1 user I feel totally betrayed, but who cares. Just some months ago avid Hassie defenders flagged here how Phase users can still buy H2 and so on but now we see that even this is no longer an option...
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Patrik Raski - Espoo, Finland
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2007, 03:13:00 PM »
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You still can perfectly use all your lenses and even more when time goes by. So why all the fuss. You upgrade every 3 to 5 years so there is no reason for panic. The upgrade possibilities are perfect and backs always get better. Perhaps you can upgrade to the new Phase camera....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145361\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Can you use the new 28mm with your H1/2 ?  Also why do I have to upgrade every 3/5 years ? I didn't have to with my Hassleblad V system !

Pete
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pss
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2007, 03:18:26 PM »
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here is a system for everybody:
available with ALL Dbacks

2 different bodies, one smaller, handheld, one more for studio use, neither need any cable to communicate with (most of) the backs...all can still use film

unparalelled range of lenses for both bodies, older style lenses still work with sometimes limited functionality, new lenses coming out

vast system including T/S, macro,...

dirt cheap compared to other systems

full integration with existing 4x5 systems

makes and sells its own Dback at much cheaper cost then all others

anything i am missing?
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