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Author Topic: Where To For Phase One?  (Read 55250 times)
Gary Ferguson
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« on: October 14, 2007, 10:15:18 AM »
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What's the future hold for Phase One?

I've no idea how many Pxx's ended up on the back of Hasselblad H cameras, but that door closing must hurt. And what rabbits can they possibly pull from hats to keep the upgrade cycle rolling? The IQ gap between MF digital and 35mm digital seems to be narrowing, but the price gap is as wide as ever. Plus their Capture One software doesn't seem to enjoy quite the gold standard reputation it once did, Hasselblad are beta testing a new raw converter and I believe their latest backs have gone the same heat sink/no fan route that used to be a unique advantage for Phase One.

As the owner of a P45+ I've a vested interest in their continued survival, but it's difficult to see many glad tidings for Phase One at the moment.
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jonstewart
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2007, 10:55:06 AM »
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Yeah, I have a P45, and have no worries about that fact, but I do think that if Phase aren't panicking right about.....now......... Then they have plans either to tie in with others, or develop their own platform.

I wonder if they dropped the price of their 22Mpixel backs would there be a whole swathe of new MF photographers?
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Jon Stewart

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mcfoto
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2007, 11:03:30 AM »
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Hi
I really think they will be working more closely with Mamiya. Imagine Phase getting involved with the ZD camera for the next model.
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Denis Montalbetti
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2007, 11:03:33 AM »
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I've no idea how many Pxx's ended up on the back of Hasselblad H cameras, but that door closing must hurt.

My poor friend Freddy bought a P30 to put on his Mamiya RZ67. He later changed his mind and decided to go for an H1. He had to pay 30,000 SEK ($4,630) just to change mount on the P30 after just 6 months. Now another 6 months later he feels he has to get the H3DII so that he won't be locked out in future. (He's also tempted by the H3D's large new LCD screen over the P30's). His dealer just quoted him 100,000 SEK for the swap ($15,400). Ouch. I urged him to take a look at the Hy6 before making such a big decision.

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And what rabbits can they possibly pull from hats to keep the upgrade cycle rolling?

Higher capture rate and better high ISO performance.

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The IQ gap between MF digital and 35mm digital seems to be narrowing, but the price gap is as wide as ever.

Have you checked prices of refurbished Sinar e22s or Phase P25s? I expect they are not a whole lot higher than the Canon 1DsMkIII will be and I'm willing to bet that even at the same resolution of 22MP the MFDB's files will be better.

Perhaps you forget that for some types of work the MFDB has several advantages. You can use the back on a view camera which is a killer app for some types of work. The viewfinders are so much better to work with. The lenses are generally top notch with much better build quality (this is a big deal!) The ratio of 4:3 is preferred by many (myself included). Sensor cleaning is easier, etc.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 11:06:49 AM »
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Hi
I really think they will be working more closely with Mamiya. Imagine Phase getting involved with the ZD camera for the next model.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145886\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mamiya is also in the business of selling backs, so I would not be surprised if the next Mamiya were somehow locked the same way the Hasselblad is. Or an integrated unit like the ZD camera. The Mamiya platform is also limited by the slow flash sync. I don't see this as a promising path for Phase.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
samuel_js
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 12:12:22 PM »
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I supose PhaseOne will develop the back for the next ADF and they'll make a new closed system. The ZD will disapear. Mamiya-PhaseOne like Hasselblad-Imacon. Just an opinion
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jonstewart
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 12:20:05 PM »
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I supose PhaseOne will develop the back for the next ADF and they'll make a new closed system. The ZD will disapear. Mamiya-PhaseOne like Hasselblad-Imacon. Just an opinion
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145904\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There was big money from Fuji for the purchase and link up between Hasselblad and Imacon. I don't see Mamiya or Phase One big enough to buy out the other, without a significant injection of outside money.
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Jon Stewart

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canmiya
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2007, 01:10:19 PM »
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There was big money from Fuji for the purchase and link up between Hasselblad and Imacon. I don't see Mamiya or Phase One big enough to buy out the other, without a significant injection of outside money.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

that's true about money, but necessity makes for strange bedfellows and strange relationships:   cooperative develoment does not necessarily mean one has to buy the other.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2007, 01:24:24 PM »
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A merger of (almost) equals is also a possibility.

Anyway if 2 parties want to get together there are many different ways to get there.

Financing is a very interesting area of expertise. People with a bit of creativity in this area can make the previously considered impossible happen.
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Caracalla
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2007, 01:26:24 PM »
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Hi
 Imagine Phase getting involved with the ZD camera for the next model.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145886\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would love to see that and it could probably be done fast/Matter of Mutual-Agreement!
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2007, 01:31:22 PM »
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Here's another reason why I'm sceptical of a Phase/Mamiya future: that combination has already been on the market for years. Every who wants to use a Phase back on a Mamiya 645 is already doing so! But for whatever reason the majority of Phase customers chose another camera platform. That doesn't bode well for Phase's future if they are ONLY compatible with the M645.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
Steve Kerman
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2007, 01:34:24 PM »
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Whatever happened to the purported Phase/Rollie cooperation that was being discussed on the "H'blad drops the other shoe..." thread?  Did we determine that that news was in error?


(Edited to make it less accusatory.)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 01:43:39 PM by Steve Kerman » Logged
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2007, 01:39:47 PM »
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Whatever happened to the purported Phase/Rollie cooperation that was being discussed on the "H'blad drops the other shoe..." thread?  Did we determine that that news was posted by a prankster?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145932\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

iirc, he predicted that evidence would appear at trade show this coming week, so we'll soon know either way.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
TechTalk
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2007, 01:43:51 PM »
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There was big money from Fuji for the purchase and link up between Hasselblad and Imacon. I don't see Mamiya or Phase One big enough to buy out the other, without a significant injection of outside money.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Interesting that you say Fuji was involved in the merger of Hasselblad and Imacon. I've searched and can't find any reference to any Fuji investment. Can you supply a link or source for this? Thanks in advance for any reference you can supply as I'm interested in the business aspects as well as the technology.

As far as the financial resources required for Phase One to merge with Mamiya, the camera/optical division of Mamiya was sold last year to an IT company in Japan for less than one million dollars in cash (plus transfer of an undisclosed amount of debt).
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 02:46:42 PM by TechTalk » Logged
sanvandur
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2007, 02:23:59 PM »
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I've heard rumors (from a very reliable source) that Phase One is currently working on putting out their own camera system. If true, this would be awesome.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2007, 02:29:23 PM »
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I've heard rumors (from a very reliable source) that Phase One is currently working on putting out their own camera system. If true, this would be awesome.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Which lens mount would it use? I can't believe they would bring out an entire new system with at least 6 new lenses which everyone would have to buy new. Crazy.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
samuel_js
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2007, 02:35:52 PM »
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I've heard rumors (from a very reliable source) that Phase One is currently working on putting out their own camera system. If true, this would be awesome.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'd really like to see that happen!!
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2007, 03:00:27 PM »
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They will probably be putting the contax 645 back on the map. Carl zeiss is cut-off to a channal for selling their fine lenses, but still own the Contax 645 brand and designes.
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samuel_js
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2007, 03:04:45 PM »
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They will probably be putting the contax 645 back on the map. Carl zeiss is cut-off to a channal for selling their fine lenses, but still own the Contax 645 brand and designes.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145956\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
 

That would be a dream!
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pss
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2007, 03:06:46 PM »
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afaik phase is still selling more backs then anyone else....of course a good amount has been as H mounts....somehow i cannot imagine that this has hit phase completely by surprise....a "secret" collaboration with rollei/F&H would be the best "revenge.....i just don't see everybody who has made a desicion to buy a phase back will now just say: "well, i guess it is the H3D for me then"....especially if they were just screwed by hasselblad after just buying a H2 (and a P45 or whatever)....
unless mamiya comes out with a completely new camera, (could be the same mount, to keep it in line ith 645afd and RZ), i don't see that phase would go exclusive with mamiya....the lens/shutter/sync issue still remains....
Hy6 is the only logical solution...and as the biggest player in the back market, i can't see why rollei/F&H would NOT want phase with them.....leaf and sinar can sell a lot of bodies, but with phase n board, those sales would double or triple, especially after the H announcement.....and this system has it all....latest technology, to a certain extent even proven technology (it is a step up from the 6008AF), the best lenses in the market with the widest range of lenses (compared to any system) and the biggest system (X-Act,....).....also to consider: rollei/F&H will make more money on selling the rollei Hy6....i am sure sinar and leaf get their bodies (more or less) for free in order to sell lenses....
anyone who bought a back made (in a way) 2 commitments...one to the back and one to the camera....we will see which one holds up....again: the hasselblad camera buyers just got seriously burned.....so i am not sure how they feel about another commitment....

for the rental market: i am sure that THE most rented combo in the US is H with a phase back....this won't change..the rental houses will ride their H1/2s into the ground.....and photographers and ADs(!!!!) will still demand a phase back.....

or phase just rolls over and dies.....
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