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Author Topic: Where To For Phase One?  (Read 55998 times)
canmiya
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« Reply #220 on: November 04, 2007, 07:34:56 PM »
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On the contrary. Sinarback users won't have to sell their backs if they change their minds - just change adapter. For the same reason, Sinarbacks will always retain their value the best. Anyone can buy one for any platform and just add the adapter.

Phase owners can be stung very badly if they want to change mount. It's the main gripe I have against Phase. My Swedish friend paid 30,000 SEK ($4,683) for a change of mount of his P30 only 6 months after buying the P30 new. Sinar adapters run at about $1K.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150596\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
the current position of phase as it relates to mount changes:
"Phase One is the only digital back manufacturer to offer professional photographers the freedom of choice to switch from one camera platform to another in a cost-free or minimal cost exchange program. This 1 year program is now extended to 3 years. All Phase One Value Added backs can be exchanged to a new platform, cost-free, within 36 months of the original purchase date. All Phase One Classic backs can be exchanged for a nominal fee within the first 12 months. If the Classic warranty has expired, a slightly higher fee will be charged in months 13 to 36 from purchase date."
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #221 on: November 04, 2007, 07:49:26 PM »
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All Phase One Value Added backs can be exchanged to a new platform, cost-free, within 36 months of the original purchase date.

So you need to pay for a 'free' exchange. More marketing double talk.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 07:50:07 PM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
rethmeier
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« Reply #222 on: November 04, 2007, 10:27:30 PM »
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I don't want to start a flame war here,however Phase is now trailing.
Their so called Capture One software is no longer state of the art.
I know a lot of Phase One back users,that NOT use Capture One anymore.
Phase One doesn't offer a multi-shot back either.

They should have taken up the Hy6 offer!

My2cw.

Have a nice day.
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Willem Rethmeier
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JeffVo
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« Reply #223 on: November 05, 2007, 01:34:19 AM »
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I'm just a little dumbfounded by how so many photographers are seemingly pushing the big red panic button to leave their beloved Phase/other H system Backs.    I have one word for you.  Contax.  I Know MANY people who you'll have to pry that camera out of their dead hands!!!!  To think that your tool is now worthless and that you should jump ship is so narrow minded and sad!  You should Buy another body and enjoy 7 years of great pictures, or at least until something BETTER comes along.  Moving to the new Hassy is a downgrade in some regards, and lateral for the most part with a few little perks at a very high cost for many.  Also, how stupid will you feel when they orphan it with the H4 when they make it all in one like a Canon/zd?   Seriously.  Your in the same boat again and at that point with most likely a payment equal to buying from scratch with your previous upgrade.  If I were to buy TODAY it would still be H with Phase back. The HY6 seems amazing but with no Phase back (and no rotating back) it is a non starter at the moment. Yes, the tides are changing.  Yes the Hassy is getting better, and has new software (I hate that scanner software). Yes, leaf is getting better and has the AFI.  Sinar too is making improvements and new software in the pipe and the HY6.  These are all major threats to Phase, and Im not so sure I love C1 4.0 either.  However, if your back is within the last generation or 2 your crazy to think the money you lose to switch will buy you anything more than false hope of non obsolences.  The new chips from Dalsa/Kodak can not be that far off if history repeats, and how bad will you feel when you just bought that shinny new Hassy then... WHAM...-50mp at 1.25frames per second and more DR and better hi-iso?  I really think the next generation of backs will be a real turning point. At that point Phase MAY not be the best anymore.   Just has Nikon made up ground on Canon so Have Phase's competitors. The new chips will be out, every player will have new/newish redesigned software, and the HY6 will be a known quantity ,and perhaps Phase a trick up its sleeve or not. This is merely conjecture here ,but Photokina seems a good time for these things to materialize and that isn't that far off.  If ever there was a time (if your already own) to wait then this may be it.
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eronald
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« Reply #224 on: November 05, 2007, 07:17:14 AM »
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Photokina seems a good time for these things to materialize and that isn't that far off.  If ever there was a time (if your already own) to wait then this may be it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed, and then at least another year for those devices to be deliverable in a working state - as the Hy6 and P+ back story shows.

I would assume that anyone with a working back of the current generation has a picture-taking device that is good enough for the next 18 months, and that buying decisions for those people can wait out the debugging of the Sinar, the launch of the new backs by Sinar and Leaf, the reality of whatever solution Phase will then offer.

By the way, my Phase P45+back is really nice, the AF on the Mamiya works surprisingly well, and ISO 400 is good. At the moment I could only wish for faster multi-point AF(new body, Mamiya ?) and decent 1600 ISO.

Edmund
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Snook
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« Reply #225 on: November 05, 2007, 07:41:05 AM »
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Well I have decided to wait for sure.. Prices for MFDB have come down a lot recently and will continue to come down or they will be dead in the water.
The new Phase C-1 Pro 4 is a joke if you ask me.. Too little too late! And the price is way over priced also.
It has soo many bugs and they were stupid not to plan on Leopard coming out, so it will be a while before they get it working. Looks like a copy of LR, But a bad copy from what I can see.
I have my eye on Leaf but like others have stated I am waiting until the end of this year to see where MFDB are going.
For me Hassleblad is never going to be a choice, So we'll see what happens.
I also think once the 1DsMIII starts getting out there MANY will drop MFDB's. I know they are 2 different tools for 2 different Markets, but there is really BIG in between market that will go for the 1DsMIII. So I am sitting back and watching what happens in the next 6 months...:+}
Hassleblad will probably dominant the market probably like they want to.
I see people mentioning Contax alot, But didn't Contax pretty much Die already? And their Sync is the same as Mamiya (125/th) which is not a lot of help either, But Mamiya seems to be holding in there, So far..?
Thanks for all the information, you guys have slowed down my "need" for MFDB's..:+}
Snook
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vgogolak
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« Reply #226 on: November 05, 2007, 03:36:12 PM »
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I believe the C-1 beta 4 is for the LE. Isn't the PRO yet to come?
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mcfoto
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« Reply #227 on: November 05, 2007, 04:27:26 PM »
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Hi
I have been following this thread for a few weeks now waiting for something to happen? So far nothing. I find it rather odd that a year ago Phase One was going to fit onto the Hy6 project. Lots of rumors, talk, threads & nothing happened. So one year later here we go again. Now Jenoptik has a press release stating that only Sinar & Leaf will be part of the Hy6 camera.
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Denis Montalbetti
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Sean H
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« Reply #228 on: November 05, 2007, 07:08:37 PM »
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... The new chips from Dalsa/Kodak can not be that far off if history repeats, and how bad will you feel when you just bought that shinny new Hassy then... WHAM...-50mp at 1.25frames per second and more DR and better hi-iso?  I really think the next generation of backs will be a real turning point. ... If ever there was a time (if your already own) to wait then this may be it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Jeff,

Not to add much to the already intense level of guessing generally going on on this board, but, er, um, any informed speculation as to when those new, higher-rez chips in the next generation of backs might be ready? One year, two years, three years?

Just curious,


Sean
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thsinar
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« Reply #229 on: November 06, 2007, 01:04:10 AM »
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... and don't forget that I have said pretty much the same since a year now, if not exactly the same than what has been published in the press release. Try to remember or find my posts. And putting my name with the Sinar signature below should have been enough to at least consider what I am writing and saved much unnecessary debate about the subject.

On a side note, and to make things completely clear: also at the begining, there was never a question that Phase would be part of the project, like I have read this now a few times, and nothing such has been informed from our side.

Best regards,
thierry

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Hi
I have been following this thread for a few weeks now waiting for something to happen? So far nothing. I find it rather odd that a year ago Phase One was going to fit onto the Hy6 project. Lots of rumors, talk, threads & nothing happened. So one year later here we go again. Now Jenoptik has a press release stating that only Sinar & Leaf will be part of the Hy6 camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #230 on: November 06, 2007, 06:54:19 AM »
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So you need to pay for a 'free' exchange. More marketing double talk.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150607\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's not a fair comment. If you buy the extended warranty then you get to change the mount. If you don't then you get to change for a nominal fee. Both ways there's a cost but such is life.

Where I come it's called service package not marketing double talk.
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Patrik Raski - Espoo, Finland
Gary Ferguson
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« Reply #231 on: November 07, 2007, 07:43:22 AM »
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What's there to freak out about really? Your camera and DB will still produce beautiful images 10-20-30 years from now, out of production or not. And it will probably be serviceable long after you've stopped using it. I get the feeling a lot of people, here and on other forums, are more interested in having the latest toy than using it to create beautiful images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I disagree. The most important question is who will service and repair my P45+ back if Phase One are out of business? Remember, I could drop it on a concrete floor anytime and require a specialist repair that only Phase One can manage. Keeping a sophisticated electonic device functioning isn't like unjamming a Hasselblad V series camera.

Without Phase One in business what's the realistic life expectancy of a back? I very much doubt it's the 10-20-30 year time frame that you reference, and far from being a toy it's tool, so the repair and servicing implications of a bankrupt or failing supplier are worth thinking about.
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AndreNapier
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« Reply #232 on: November 07, 2007, 09:28:06 AM »
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I do not know if this is a photographers thing...but the whole reasoning here seem a bit silly by now.
Phase One WILL NOT go bankrupt because of the actions of Sinar, Leaf, Rollei or Hasselblad. If they go under it will be because of people like you. It will be because photographers who currently use P45 or other P1 products will not purchase another unit and will not supply enough revenue to support their operation. To me the logic seems like it is a fault of a new beautiful neighbor that move to your neighborhood that you will be force to divorce your wife and move next door.
Come on people!. Your sexy neighbor has no obligation to like and accept your wife and to allow her to play a little trio together for a sake of your marriage. If you leave her alone and work on the things that made your relationship strong you will survive the temptations and salvage your family.
Writing millions of petitions to Sinar and Hassy will not change a thing. Opening a dialog with Phase One and you is the only logical step you can take. Than if you figure out that your partner is not willing to listen or respond to your needs you can conclude the obvious and move next door and live happily ever after .... until somebody prettier moves in.

Thierry, you are an angel of patients.

Andre Napier
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Snook
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« Reply #233 on: November 07, 2007, 10:47:18 AM »
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I believe it comes down to what you like and the Price. Of course if some companies squeeze out others it will be hard to survive. Sinar, Hassleblad have an advantage that they make cameras and probably would love to push out the competition. It only makes marketing sense,for them.
Also software will have a HUGE advantage or disadvantage for sure.
So I think it is a little more than a marriage...:+}
I think Phase is falling behind with their software and the new Beta 4 is pretty weak right now.
I think there are a lot of factors in a companies survival or not....
I think most photographers unless they have an unlimited budget are looking for a great price matched with quality. The market for MFDB is getting smaller as other companies come out with bigger better cameras. RE: Not to start another conflicting post here but for 75% of most print work and magazines ,catalogues etc... the Canon 1DsMII and upcoming MIII are MORE than enough for most photographic works. So all these companies with 18-22 megapixel clients are probably going to lose a lot of the market. Apart that the quality is Much better with MFDB's. Most of the clients will not "see" it unfortunately.
Guys selling huge prints or Advertising guys for car ads etc... they will want more and will be the Large MFDB market.. But that is getting smaller.
I personally think that the MFDB guys have squeezed the juice long enough for the prices they are asking and the technology is already advancing slower, So why the High prices for Old technology.
In any case spending 25-35K for a MFDB days are over for most. except the market I mentioned above.
Just my opionion. I am a full time working photographer and I have never recieved a complaint about the Canon gear, but Only have been dissappointed my self with the 35mm format.
I am making a move soon to MFDB because I want to for personal projects and for some adverts when shooting is much slower. Not because my clients wants or needs better quality.
Also my move to MFDB is because I like the feel of MF as I started out with medium format. Plus I feel the viewfinder a joke in 35mm..:+}
Snook
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amsp
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« Reply #234 on: November 07, 2007, 12:40:25 PM »
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I disagree. The most important question is who will service and repair my P45+ back if Phase One are out of business? Remember, I could drop it on a concrete floor anytime and require a specialist repair that only Phase One can manage. Keeping a sophisticated electonic device functioning isn't like unjamming a Hasselblad V series camera.

Without Phase One in business what's the realistic life expectancy of a back? I very much doubt it's the 10-20-30 year time frame that you reference, and far from being a toy it's tool, so the repair and servicing implications of a bankrupt or failing supplier are worth thinking about.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151076\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, I think there will be people servicing digital cameras in the future just as you don't have to send a mamiya camera to mamiya in japan to service it, you can have it fixed at an independent service center. I think it's only logical that things won't change in this respect, it's just some electronics and an imaging chip after all, not a space shuttle.
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