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Author Topic: Leaf AFi Prices  (Read 16103 times)
TechTalk
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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2007, 11:18:39 PM »
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Sinar prices seem more reasonable although Thierry did not quote lens prices. I assume all these prices are 'MSRP'. Remember 'Dealer Net' is subtantially lower. I would doubt anyone would pay the quoted prices we are seeing here.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146533\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think you have the wrong impression regarding the difference in dealer net and MSRP on the lenses from Leaf. You would likely be shocked at how close the two prices are. Expect to be quoted the prices that you've seen.
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pixjohn
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2007, 12:20:15 AM »
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The Leaf and Sinar prices seem way off for the same item. Leaf must have  known what the Sinar prices where going to run.

Makes you want to think, what is Leaf thinking!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 12:23:32 AM by pixjohn » Logged
rethmeier
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2007, 01:01:25 AM »
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I purchased 5 Rollei Schneider lenses second hand for $10K AUD.
A 40 Super Angulon+60 Curtagon+ 80/2 Xenotar+ 90ApoSymmarMakro+180/2.8 Tele-Xenar
To replace those new,it would cost close to$25K AUD.
I also have a 55 PCS tilt-shift coming that I paid $5K for.(A new one cost over $10KAUD)
O.K they are all manual,but all in perfect condition.
Anyhow,for my kind of work I prefer manual focus anyway.
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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Sydney Australia
jing q
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2007, 01:12:18 AM »
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I'll wait a few years...or rent if I really need it.Time for me to work on those adapters for a M645!hahaha
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2007, 02:20:43 AM »
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1) The Mamiya 80mm Lens for 645 does not include a shutter. It starts with this price advantage.

2) When rolling out a new product of any kind, the price has to reflect the initial development cost in relation to the number of units you expect to sell. The Mamiya 80mm was introduced when the medium-format market was healthy and strong and the costs of development are likely long since recovered. The medium-format market is now weak and at a very low volume. A look at the price of the Mamiya 28mm will give an indication of this. This is also reflected in the AFi/Hy6 prices. A body with 90° prism is approaching $6,000 largely because of the anticipated volume and the need to recover development costs in a reasonable amount of time.
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OK, how about this one then:

[a href=\"http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/6841359.html]http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/6841359.html[/url]

That is less that 1300 US$ actual price for a Hassy 80 mm f2.8 with leaf shutter in the lens.

Granted, it only covers 645, but is coverage really that much of an issue for such standard lenses?

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2007, 02:22:00 AM »
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I agree with the above ''huge disservice'', just remember that Mamiya is in the same boat with regards to their 28mm, probably the most expensive 28mm Lens today!!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146544\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, there are only two 28 mm lenses out there, and they go for about the same price.

Besies, those lenses are really difficult to produce.

Cheers,
Bernard
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thsinar
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« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2007, 02:48:03 AM »
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Oh yes, Bernard, lens coverage is definitively an issue and requesting for a different design.

Best regards,
Thierry

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Granted, it only covers 645, but is coverage really that much of an issue for such standard lenses?

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2007, 03:56:14 AM »
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Oh yes, Bernard, lens coverage is definitively an issue and requesting for a different design.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, I am not doubting the fact that the Hassy 80 mm might not cover 6x6 at 2.8, but I am frankly not convinced that covering 6x6 with a 80 mm lens is a difficult task with modern optics.

I am aware of the differences between LF and MF lenses, and f22 is easy on lenses, but a Schneider 72 mm Super Angulon has a coverage of 226 mm @ f22. That's about exactly 3 times the size of 6x6.

Between 645 and 6x6, we are talking about a difference of about 1 cm diagonal. I assume that the mount of the Hy6 is a bit larger than that of the H system. More glass is needed, and that should translate into a higher cost, but the gap is just too huge to be justified by the technicalities IMHO.

But OK, I am not trying to convince you, just explaining you why I would never consider spending so much money on those lenses. I guess that 6x6 is overkill for me.

Regards,
Bernard
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Dustbak
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« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2007, 04:16:18 AM »
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Another point is that nobody currently owns a digital back that comes even near 6x6 (with the exception of a few people that own the Dicomed bigshot).

Now, sure you can use film with it but how many will buy this body to use it with film? To buy it in anticipation for bigger sensors, maybe?

The Sinar prices seem pretty fair albeit on the high side. I just expected/hoped to see lower prices to put the system in the market as competition for the H system.

The H is widely seen as obscenely expensive but with these prices it appears to be moderately priced.

I am curious whether this system will really put the heat on Hasselblad, I think it will not. For me it makes the pricing of the H appear a bit more less ridiculous
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thsinar
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« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2007, 04:25:54 AM »
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Dear Dustback,

What are the prices of the H system (equivalent to the Sinar Hy6 bundle) in the USA (I remember that those are US published prices, as far as the Sinar prices are concerned)?

Then, does the H system include a "5-Year Hot Swap" within 24 hours of all components included?

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Another point is that nobody currently owns a digital back that comes even near 6x6 (with the exception of a few people that own the Dicomed bigshot).

Now, sure you can use film with it but how many will buy this body to use it with film? To buy it in anticipation for bigger sensors, maybe?

The Sinar prices seem pretty fair albeit on the high side. I just expected/hoped to see lower prices to put the system in the market as competition for the H system.

The H is widely seen as obscenely expensive but with these prices it appears to be moderately priced.

I am curious whether this system will really put the heat on Hasselblad, I think it will not. For me it makes the pricing of the H appear a bit more less ridiculous
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Dustbak
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« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2007, 04:36:36 AM »
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Lenses of the H system are roughly between 2800USD & 4000USD for the most expensive (1800 for the 80). Which appears to be less than stated here for Hy6 Lenses. Sure these are for 6x6 but most people will not be using it for that.

Prices of the H3D packages are around the same pricing (a little less even), difficult to say since most pricing of these are 'personalized'. List prices I have here are H3D39 at 32K, 22 at 26K and 31 at 25K. These prices were summer 2007 so not sure how they are now and as I said may vary per case.

I am quite sure they have no 5 year swap guarantuee which is indeed something I can really appreciate in the Sinar. That must give users a very comfortable feeling.

It still appears the Hy6/Afi will not be priced competitively compared to the H, IMO! I think that is what many people will be looking at. The H is already seen as way overpriced, now these systems come out with comparable pricing or even worse.

Yes, you get great warranty.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 05:43:17 AM by Dustbak » Logged
juicy
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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2007, 04:39:09 AM »
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Hi!
The lenses seem to be expensive but if compared to the price differences between let's say Zeiss Distagon T* ZM 15mm f/2.8 for Leica M and similar focal length Voigtländer lens there is even larger difference. The Zeiss 15 is 1.5 times more expensive than Canon 14mm f/2.8 which is not considered a cheap lens either.

Cheers,
J
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rethmeier
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« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2007, 05:24:29 AM »
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The Schneider or Zeiss lenses for the Rollei(Hy6) have their own signature.
I know a very well known fashion shooter that stays away from the H (Fuji) glass.
He prefers the Zeiss glass on his Contax 645.
Apparently the H glass flares like crazy when shooting into the light(sun)

See my previous post!
It doesn't have to be expensive!

I purchased 5 Rollei Schneider lenses second hand for $10K AUD.
A 40 Super Angulon+60 Curtagon+ 80/2 Xenotar+ 90ApoSymmarMakro+180/2.8 Tele-Xenar
To replace those new,it would cost close to$25K AUD.
I also have a 55 PCS tilt-shift coming that I paid $5K for.(A new one cost over $10KAUD)
O.K they are all manual,but all in perfect condition.
Anyhow,for my kind of work I prefer manual focus anyway.
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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Dustbak
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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2007, 05:49:36 AM »
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Sure Willem,

I have been told the Fuji glass stinks as well. Now I have been using it for a while and it isn't halve as bad as I expected.

I have images with the sun in it taken with the 80 which are really well without much flare (sure around the sun).

Sharpness of the 80 and 35 (sofar the only H lenses I have) are almost at par with my ZF's which are the sharpest lenses I have seen sofar.

The C lenses of Zeiss can be used on the H with an adapter so that can be cheap as well. For the people that want to use Zeiss on people.

I use manual focus most of the time as well but now and than it is great to be able to go lazy.

Anyway the Rollei glass is allegedly the very best and I am sure the Hy6/Afi glass will be as well.

It does come at a price though from the looks of it, which is steep. The Rollei system used to be a cheaper alternative than the H. This seems to be no longer the case in the future.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 06:02:17 AM by Dustbak » Logged
jpop
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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2007, 06:34:35 AM »
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The cost of the Hy6/AFi glass is relative.  Obviously for more dollars there should be a performance difference between them and the lenses they will be competing with in the market.  There is also coverage differences between the lenses mentioned and producing a lens that has greater coverage bears more cost than a lens with smaller coverage.  While to date there isn't a back that needs the coverage provided by the Hy6/AFi lenses, but should that come to be the case, the end user has bought an insurance policy of not needing to dig into the coffers again to arm themselves with suitable lenses.

For some the comparative market value of the Hy6/Afi glass will warrant the cost and others it won't.  If it were simply an apples to apples comparison nobody makes the jump.  Again, there needs to be performance differences illustrated and the customer needs to see some residual value in having lenses that provide a safety net for the possibility of sensors larger than a 645 frame.
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John Popp
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2007, 07:11:42 AM »
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Lenses of the H system are roughly between 2800USD & 4000USD for the most expensive (1800 for the 80). [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146583\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For what it is worth, the 80 mm f2.8 can be bought in Japan under the Fuji brand for 1300 US$ street price all discount included.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Photomangreg
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« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2007, 09:22:11 AM »
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Well, there are only two 28 mm lenses out there, and they go for about the same price.

Besies, those lenses are really difficult to produce.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hasselblad 28mm - $3875
Mamiya 28mm - $5294

Prices from B&H, seems like a bit of a difference to me!
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H1/A75 Guy
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« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2007, 09:30:00 AM »
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Dear Dustback,

What are the prices of the H system (equivalent to the Sinar Hy6 bundle) in the USA [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146581\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

After looking at the impressive LCD in bright sunlight, I asked my local retailer how much for the H3DII bundle just this past Saturday. $30kUS. No 5-Year Hot Swap.
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canmiya
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« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2007, 09:45:22 AM »
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i'm kind of surprised about the "shock" regarding the prices of the schneider lenses for the Hy6/Afi.  one of the first things i did months ago was to look at the prices of the Af lenses for the rollei 6008 af which fit the Hy6/afi online at B&H.  i assumed, and i guess incorrectly so, that more people had looked at lens prices and understood these lenses are pretty large, heavy and expensive.  

the interesting thing to me is that the hope/prediction  that mf digital would become more affordable and would see an increase in appeal, seems to be threatened by the recent announcements of new product:  between closed systems, a new body without digital serial communication, and three expensive
variants of the same body and super expensive lenses, i am not sure where MF digital is going.
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Natasa Stojsic
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« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2007, 10:37:52 AM »
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hasselblad 28mm - $3875
Mamiya 28mm - $5294

Prices from B&H, seems like a bit of a difference to me!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is why I thought Mamiya 28mm is the most expensive 28mm lens.

I rarely purchase equipment on-line, but when I did search 28mm Mamiya this is what I got [a href=\"http://www.pictureline.com/products/14506/Mamiya_Sekor_AF_28mm_f4.5_D_Lens_Aspherical/sitemap/sitemap.php]Link[/url] $5,900
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 10:40:13 AM by Natasa Stojsic » Logged

[span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'][span style='color:black']N a t a s a   S t o j s i c[/span][/span][span style='color:gray']  .......................................................................................................................................... [/span]
[span style='color:gray']PHASE[/span][span style='color:skyblue']ONE[/span] [span style='color:gray']P30[span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%']+[/span][/span]| [span style='color:red']MAMIYA[/span] [span style='color:gray']645 AFD II [/span]  [span style='font-family:impact'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'][span style='color:#98AFC7'] | 28mm f4.5 D. AF | 35mm f3.5 AF | 55-110mm f4.5 AF Zoom | 80mm f2.8 AF | 120mm f4.0 MF Macro | 150mm f3.5 AF[/span][/span][/span]
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