Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Sinar Hy6 Prices  (Read 20281 times)
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2007, 07:05:51 AM »
ReplyReply

.... and, the same kind of function is used if one wishes a PERFECT live video image, WITHOUT LC shutter.

Thierry

Quote
In this mode the shutter will rattle on as long as you press the trigger button. I don't think there is any back yet that can keep up with the highest speeds available yet. Effectively this same mode is used when operated tethered, but then the amount of shots is set at the computer and fired at a pace that can be followed by the back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Dustbak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2359


« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2007, 07:10:40 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks Epd & Thierry,

Currently you also need to be tethered to do multishot (at least you have to with Hasselblad which multishot back I will be getting end of this week).

Right! In that case you get an image at 10fps I guess? Hmmm... it does sound like that is a real lens shutter killer.

At 150K shutter life you get about 250minutes of live video? (I know that is quite a bit but still).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 07:13:56 AM by Dustbak » Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2007, 07:15:33 AM »
ReplyReply

so far I can remember, this function does not use a 10 fps speed. I can confirm this after having checked. However, you are right, this has obviously an influence on the shutter. On the other hand, you don't HAVE TO use it, since LV is also possible without this function, with the "normal" quality and the related issues of saturation of the sensor.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Right! In that case you get an image at 10fps I guess? Hmmm... it does sound like that is a real lens shutter killer.

At 150K shutter life you get about 250minutes of live video? (I know that is quite a bit but still).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146905\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 07:15:52 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Rune Werner Molnes
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 68


WWW
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2007, 07:46:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Thierry,

I'm rather curious with regards to the focus bracketing feature.

Could you go into some more detail?

It would of course be very interesting for us landscape photographers if the focus bracketing could blend for instance three images with different focus into one, effectively increasing DOF. But I guess this will have to be done in post processing. If it could be done effectively in- camera, it would reduce the appeal of/need for a LF camera as an second system.

But what makes the focus bracketing such a big sellingpoint, when it very easily can be done manually?

You mention "unique to Sinar Hy6", but I guess/hope that we will see the same feature in the Leaf AFi?

Thanks,

Rune Werner Molnes


Quote
Dear EPd,

I did not dare to mention again the same, since it was published already at least 2 times here, with the tech data and specs and in different other treads.

One for me important and unique feature on the Sinar Hy6:

- Focus Braketing

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2007, 07:52:25 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Rune,

Yes, this focus bracketing allows basically to shoot (automatically) either 3 or 5 sequences of images, with each time and between each image the focus being moved.
Your guess is right, these images have to be post-processed.
This can of course be done manually, though certainly not with the precision of the camera itself and not as fast. So it might be important for some to have this done automatically.

I do think that the Leaf AFi has this feature too, but I prefer somebody from Leaf confirming this rather then me.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry,

I'm rather curious with regards to the focus bracketing feature.

Could you go into some more detail?

It would of course be very interesting for us landscape photographers if the focus bracketing could blend for instance three images with different focus into one, effectively increasing DOF. But I guess this will have to be done in post processing. If it could be done effectively in- camera, it would reduce the appeal of/need for a LF camera as an second system.

But what makes the focus bracketing such a big sellingpoint, when it very easily can be done manually?

You mention "unique to Sinar Hy6", but I guess/hope that we will see the same feature in the Leaf AFi?

Thanks,

Rune Werner Molnes
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146911\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Dustbak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2359


« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2007, 08:03:27 AM »
ReplyReply

Thierry,

One of the problems with focus bracketing, especially with short distances, is that with many lenses the focal length changes somewhat and with every lens the image is different comparing places in focus with those out of focus.

It is not always very easy to place those images on top of each other and have natural transitions (not sure how good Helicon Focus is here, never came around testing it).

Are there plans to integrate this type of blending into the Sinar software eventually (sort of like the Hasselblad lens corrections in software)? I can see a real use here with stuff like table-top photography.

BTW, this is just dreaming about possibilities here. By no way I mean I need to have stuff like this yesterday  (though there has been more than one occassion where this would have come in handy).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 08:04:57 AM by Dustbak » Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2007, 08:54:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Dustback,

yes, you are right. The focal length and the reproduction scale changing very slightly, more so at short distances is, so far I can imagine, unavoidable. And the solution is here probably only to be found in a software correction.

There are no such plans currently to incorporate this in our capture software, but I'm pretty sure that there exists some softwares specialized in this. I am not an expert on this and may be somebody can jump in here.

I will forward your suggestion.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry,

One of the problems with focus bracketing, especially with short distances, is that with many lenses the focal length changes somewhat and with every lens the image is different comparing places in focus with those out of focus.

It is not always very easy to place those images on top of each other and have natural transitions (not sure how good Helicon Focus is here, never came around testing it).

Are there plans to integrate this type of blending into the Sinar software eventually (sort of like the Hasselblad lens corrections in software)? I can see a real use here with stuff like table-top photography.

BTW, this is just dreaming about possibilities here. By no way I mean I need to have stuff like this yesterday  (though there has been more than one occassion where this would have come in handy).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146914\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2207


WWW
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2007, 11:59:22 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Sam,you really amaze me.  
If you don't like the Hy6,just move on and don't buy it.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146883\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

move on where exactly ??

Your right im not enamoured by the Hy6 - well actually thats not true, once the 35mm lens is about I think for me it would be absolutely the best system for me

I am sure it is a wonderful camera - I shoot a lot of uprights and push my shutter speeds down handheld a lot

so just the slap could make a difference to me

I am even less enamoured by hasselblad who have (without a back change for me) closed me out of any of thier developments

my general points are..

I would like to see a decent competitor to blad

and

the lost oppourtunities

(This is not THs fault)

but sinar seem in a right mess

two if not three super expensive lens sets for example one for the view system and another for the SLR

and a virtual failure to embrace digital technology

I am utterley serious that I would like be able to program my camera on my laptop, TTL ratios, when ISO boost kicks in and the AF range of the lenses

Using my blad under water (and half in halff out) really tests it - and shows its limitations P,A,S dont work, AF hunts etc - all solvable with a bit of user input, all the automation only adds up to me selecting MF and M metering

AF ranging on lenses is critical to fast AF and multipoint is critical to useable AF

I would like edge weighted metering for example (when you are flashing the main subject!)

and as for the back to body comunitcation I am sure that could be done with a mini wireless device rather than 'bogglingly' complex mechanics

Sinar seem to have failed mechacnically  to sit down with the bits like a 645 chip and those lenses and say - 'hey space for rise with that image circle - people would pay good money for that'

they have also failed to electrically/digitally and use the proper power of microprocessing to really smooth the focusing and metering in the way each individual chooses

All I want is a MF camera that has decent synch, a bit of rise/fall and a lense wider than my clients D80 with an 18-200 kit lens- becuase not having that can be embarrasing - oh and AF that works

 S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2007, 12:13:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Sam,

I wish we could have you in our R&D team.

All those sleeping people and un-capable would defintively wake up!

 

Thierry

Quote
move on where exactly ??

Your right im not enamoured by the Hy6 - well actually thats not true, once the 35mm lens is about I think for me it would be absolutely the best system for me

I am sure it is a wonderful camera - I shoot a lot of uprights and push my shutter speeds down handheld a lot

so just the slap could make a difference to me

I am even less enamoured by hasselblad who have (without a back change for me) closed me out of any of thier developments

my general points are..

I would like to see a decent competitor to blad

and

the lost oppourtunities

(This is not THs fault)

but sinar seem in a right mess

two if not three super expensive lens sets for example one for the view system and another for the SLR

and a virtual failure to embrace digital technology

I am utterley serious that I would like be able to program my camera on my laptop, TTL ratios, when ISO boost kicks in and the AF range of the lenses

Using my blad under water (and half in halff out) really tests it - and shows its limitations P,A,S dont work, AF hunts etc - all solvable with a bit of user input, all the automation only adds up to me selecting MF and M metering

AF ranging on lenses is critical to fast AF and multipoint is critical to useable AF

I would like edge weighted metering for example (when you are flashing the main subject!)

and as for the back to body comunitcation I am sure that could be done with a mini wireless device rather than 'bogglingly' complex mechanics

Sinar seem to have failed mechacnically  to sit down with the bits like a 645 chip and those lenses and say - 'hey space for rise with that image circle - people would pay good money for that'

they have also failed to electrically/digitally and use the proper power of microprocessing to really smooth the focusing and metering in the way each individual chooses

All I want is a MF camera that has decent synch, a bit of rise/fall and a lense wider than my clients D80 with an 18-200 kit lens- becuase not having that can be embarrasing - oh and AF that works

 S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146962\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2207


WWW
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2007, 12:24:14 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Sam,

I wish we could have you in our R&D team.

All those sleeping people and un-capable would defintively wake up!

 

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146967\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well I am actually trying to help and inspire - make me an offer

Its like the development guys at kodak (SLRN) if someone sent them into the field with 200ISO minimum and 125 sysnch speed and lenses that crap out at F11 they would wake have woken up pretty fast - yet the thing got to market and lost so much money kodak had to totally dip out of the arena - a 10 minute chat with a photographer could have stopped that
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2007, 12:36:56 PM »
ReplyReply

Sam,

it was just some humor. I am pretty tired from waiting for the predicted annoucement and/or show at Photo Plus today.

Your comments are though taken seriously.

We shall continue our "argumentation" tomorrow, since I will leave now.

Best regards,
Thierry



Quote
Well I am actually trying to help and inspire - make me an offer

Its like the development guys at kodak (SLRN) if someone sent them into the field with 200ISO minimum and 125 sysnch speed and lenses that crap out at F11 they would wake have woken up pretty fast - yet the thing got to market and lost so much money kodak had to totally dip out of the arena - a 10 minute chat with a photographer could have stopped that
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
ynp
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 241


WWW
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2007, 01:47:58 PM »
ReplyReply

I have been using my Sinar-M with the AF Module and AF lenses for about 6 months now. I assume that the Sinar-M is the closest thing to Hy6 cameras and Focus Trap and Focus bracketing were tested on the M platform. AFAIK the electronics of the Hy6 is based on the proven solutions of Sinar M and AF and the rest of the features should be only better on new Sinar/Rolleiflex cameras.

Focus Trap: It works on the M with the AF Module and all 4 AF lenses. It works better with the shorter lenses. I had some problems with the AF 180mm lens when I tried to shoot ballet  dancers using Focus Trap. It worked better on  slower subjects.

Focus Bracketing: It is the best feature of the M. I use Focus bracketing regularly for small 3D artwork shooting and Macro. I tried this with landscapes and processed the files through Helicon Focus software (http://www.heliconsoft.com/heliconfocus.html), easy and simple. When I upgraded up to my 33 mpx back I started to use Focus Bracketing very often. I am not a technical person,  and cannot explain this, but my 22 mpx back gets sharper foreground on landscape images than the 75LV. And I cannot find a tilt solution for my Sinar.

Shift: the 6008 lenses allow a lot of shift. And I wonder why nobody tried to move the sensor IN the back (not the adapter). There are some in-camera IS systems that are able to move the sensor up to several millimeters in different directions. Why not for shift?

BTW I was very surprised when somebody mentioned that Sinar expects to sell only 200 units per year globally. Where I live (Russia) Rolleiflex 6008 was very popular among professional photographers. There are plenty of lenses new and used. When Rollei introduced 6008AF/Integral + db20 couple years ago,  the 6008 with the digital back became the most popular choice for the studio photographers. They have the lenses. And they will be upgrading sooner or later.   H series Hasselblad are less popular with the pros, but  I know a lot of amateurs here who own  the very  new Hasselblads, up to 39 mpx. And they will be upgrading as well (or change the system). I bought my Sinarback e75 from one of them (he got a new H3D) and I paid  only $15K for the back.
Yevgeny
Logged
nicolaasdb
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 213


WWW
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2007, 02:07:23 PM »
ReplyReply

the only reason I would buy the Hy6--->> faster and multi point focussing...and that ain't happening and I see it never happening in the MF world.
So the 645AFDII and the 67proII will do it for me!
Logged
RobertJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 586


« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2007, 04:29:04 PM »
ReplyReply

Excellent.

As always with medium format digital gear, these prices are absolutely ridiculous, and all the companies out there deserve a slap in the face.  But thanks anyway.  
Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2207


WWW
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2007, 04:35:12 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Excellent.

As always with medium format digital gear, these prices are absolutely ridiculous, and all the companies out there deserve a slap in the face.  But thanks anyway. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147017\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why do you think the prices are rediculous

It seems to me normal in any 'kit' be it hifi cars, cameras that a 10% improvement usually doubles the price

And if you dont like it the cheaper one is usually very adequate anyway

S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2007, 07:04:49 PM »
ReplyReply

.... and it was a silly mistake from either the person having said it or a printing error: those figures are obviously meant for Germany.

Thierry

Quote
That estimate was not for the number of Hy6 cameras to be sold under the Rolleiflex name. They will be represented by others in Russia. It also was not an estimate of how many AFi cameras Leaf hopes to sell.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147012\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 09:42:55 PM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 729


WWW
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2007, 11:11:27 AM »
ReplyReply

Thierry:
The Hy6 is described having an integrated RGB sensor that feeds white balance info to the digital back for the automatic setting of white balance. Is this essentially a built-in color temperature meter?
I am curious how effective this is compared to high end DSLRs, which are way better than anything the med format back makers have provided.
Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 11:11:50 AM by hcubell » Logged

eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3881



WWW
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2007, 01:50:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Since Thierry cannot speak on behalf of Leaf (and I only speak on behalf of myself) I can reassure you: as long as a function of the camera is firmware based (meaning: not coming from software outside the camera) the Rolleiflex Hy6, Sinar Hy6 and Leaf AFi will act the same, because they share the same mechanics and the same firmware. The only mechanical difference that separates the Leaf from the others is the battery contacts in the handgrip, because the AFi uses the same batteries as the Leaf backs have. Sensible choice IMO.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146926\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wonder whether Leaf will not be adding camera functionality eg. contrast-based focus to the back itself, with the back driving the camera.

Edmund
Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2007, 12:42:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear hcubell,

I have nothing much to add to EPd's answer. So yes, it is certainly effective, by the way it is metering the color temp, not pointing directly to the scene and metering the light source instead of the image itself, as EPd mentioned it.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry:
The Hy6 is described having an integrated RGB sensor that feeds white balance info to the digital back for the automatic setting of white balance. Is this essentially a built-in color temperature meter?
I am curious how effective this is compared to high end DSLRs, which are way better than anything the med format back makers have provided.
Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147216\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 729


WWW
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2007, 11:26:22 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Dear hcubell,

I have nothing much to add to EPd's answer. So yes, it is certainly effective, by the way it is metering the color temp, not pointing directly to the scene and metering the light source instead of the image itself, as EPd mentioned it.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Seems like a very creative approach to setting WB. I will be curious to see how effective it is in practice. Is the Hy6 the only camera that sets Auto WB this way?
Logged

Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad