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Author Topic: Upgrades for current Leaf customers????????  (Read 16048 times)
mattlap2
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« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2008, 04:15:31 PM »
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Matt,
If the above numbers are correct ( and after selling the basic h1/h2 kit for $3,300 )  it will translate to paying about $17,000 for switching from basic H1 to basic AFI or about $11,000 for switching the mount on practically the same back. I can already see the waiting list forming on this deal. 
I hope it is not called camera promotion nor trying to get Hasselblad share of the market.
As a loyal Leaf user I have to say that I am shocked and very concerned. I would say I PASS and reconsider my options.
Http://AndreNapier.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167142\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andre,

Don't kill the messenger!    You asked the question and I am just presenting the information given to me by Leaf.   Obviously I do not have any control of their promotions or business choices.

Matt LaPointe
Dodd Camera Chicago
(219) 670-995
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ynp
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« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2008, 04:27:19 PM »
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I got a quote from the Russian dealer:

Sinar Hy6-e75 - 29 500 EUR
Sinar Hy6-e54 - 25 000EUR
Sinar Hy6-m54 - 12 000 EUR
Sinar Hy6 body - 4300 EUR
Leaf AFi 75s - 35 695 EUR
Leaf AFi 54s - 27 495 EUR
Leaf AFi 65s - 25 995 EUR

 Huge difference!
Yevgeny
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H1/A75 Guy
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« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2008, 04:44:17 PM »
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$35,995 +
$  3,098=
$39,093

            -
$14,430 =
$ 24,663
This seems as the deal
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167148\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Andre,

Leaf is on your side.
Your numbers are incorrect: Try this deal:

$35,995  AFi7 includes WLF and 80mm lens
  -3,599  10% Dealer Discount
 -14,430  Turn in your A75s
  -3,300   Sell your H1 on eBay
$14,666  Your price for an Afi7 with WLF and 80mm Lens.

Heck, you can pay for this on one good shooting day, You're in there!

The MAP (Manufacturers Authorized Price) for the AFi is $35,995, as TechTalk stated some months ago. This price includes the 80mm Lens. No dealer can advertise below MAP. However, any dealer can sell below MAP to an end-user. Whatever happened to TechTalk, anyway? I was afraid he may have morphed into Ray.

David
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BJNY
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« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2008, 04:48:26 PM »
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I thought MAP translated into "Minimum Advertised Price", no?
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Guillermo
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« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2008, 04:48:51 PM »
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I got a quote from the Russian dealer:

Sinar Hy6-e75 - 29 500 EUR
Sinar Hy6-e54 - 25 000EUR
Sinar Hy6-m54 - 12 000 EUR
Sinar Hy6 body - 4300 EUR
Leaf AFi 75s - 35 695 EUR
Leaf AFi 54s - 27 495 EUR
Leaf AFi 65s - 25 995 EUR

 Huge difference!
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The problem is the yellow cast on the Sinar file. I'd rather have the red cast on the Leaf file and LC11. Thank you!
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H1/A75 Guy
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« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2008, 04:50:08 PM »
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I thought MAP translated into "Minimum Advertised Price", no?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I plead no contest.

David
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rainer_v
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« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2008, 04:56:22 PM »
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The problem is the yellow cast on the Sinar file. I'd rather have the red cast on the Leaf file and LC11. Thank you!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Huh?
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rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
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www.tangential.de
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« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2008, 04:57:17 PM »
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hi David,

Same as Rainer: Huh

Bets regards,
Thierry

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The problem is the yellow cast on the Sinar file. I'd rather have the red cast on the Leaf file and LC11. Thank you!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
berg
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« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2008, 04:58:53 PM »
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Andre,

Leaf is on your side.
Your numbers are incorrect: Try this deal:

$35,995  AFi7 includes WLF and 80mm lens
  -3,599  10% Dealer Discount
 -14,430  Turn in your A75s
  -3,300   Sell your H1 on eBay
$14,666  Your price for an Afi7 with WLF and 80mm Lens.

Heck, you can pay for this on one good shooting day, You're in there!

The MAP (Manufacturers Authorized Price) for the AFi is $35,995, as TechTalk stated some months ago. This price includes the 80mm Lens. No dealer can advertise below MAP. However, any dealer can sell below MAP to an end-user. Whatever happened to TechTalk, anyway? I was afraid he may have morphed into Ray.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Amen to that.
I guess you also have H lenses to sell, and if you want the GOOD old Schneider with aperture ring and manuel focus which is a dream with WL then you are talking really cheap lenses.
The cost of switching system is even less then.
best
berg
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pixjohn
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« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2008, 05:22:30 PM »
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I skipped upgrading my aptus 75 based on the upgrade price and reliability of Leaf as a company. When I am ready to upgrade I plan to say bye bye Leaf. I have no trust in any Leaf product after purchasing my Aptus 75 and never getting a working unit like the unit I demonstrated. Leaf could have fixed all the problem with software but only comes out with new units and no new software to fix the problem they created.

My advice don't buy any Leaf products without testing it first.  If you test it and get a promise to fix in the next software return it and run.

Leaf has left me high and dry with "where working on it" I have heard the BS for over 1 1/2 years.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 05:23:50 PM by pixjohn » Logged
AndreNapier
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« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2008, 08:47:45 PM »
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On the contrary to Pixjohn I love my Leaf, however AFI does not offer me a better back than the one I already have (75S) just an ability to put my back on a new unproven system.

H/A75 Guy,
You know from my previous posts that I always try to be wise with my money or how the others call it I am just cheap. I am very busy today but I have no guarantee to work tomorrow. I am the first one to jump on a better sensor or the invest any money for the future of my carrier. I publicly stated that I will pay 100K for 6x7 sensor if anybody wants to try it. HOWEVER!!!
In my books Leaf wants people like me to switch from A75S with H1 mount to  A75S
with their VERY OWN AFI mount and pay anywhere from 14,000 to 21,000 for the move.
There is something amiss with this marketing strategy. My A75s is just 4 months old. The company SCHOULD !!!! offer the mount change for free and than ask me to purchase their camera. I am sure
that Christian from Hasselblad is giggling reading this numbers and the approach Leaf took to swing Hasselblad users towards AFI. That is all I have to say on this topic unless somebody at Leaf opens their eyes and start thinking about marketing. Good luck.
http://AndreNapier
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2008, 03:12:59 AM »
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indeed weird.
I chose leaf because it was the company that responded to my mails within hours instead of weeks.
I already was shooting my leaf back for a month when the reply on my inquiry for a price offer came in from the competition

When I have questions or encounter problems they respond lightning fast and accurate.
I scratched my IR filter (my own fault), within 4 days I got up and running, in between my dealer made sure I could do my sessions.

So service is great from my side.
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pprdigital
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« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2008, 08:01:59 AM »
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Andre,

Leaf is on your side.
Your numbers are incorrect: Try this deal:

$35,995  AFi7 includes WLF and 80mm lens
  -3,599  10% Dealer Discount
 -14,430  Turn in your A75s
  -3,300   Sell your H1 on eBay
$14,666  Your price for an Afi7 with WLF and 80mm Lens.

Heck, you can pay for this on one good shooting day, You're in there!

The MAP (Manufacturers Authorized Price) for the AFi is $35,995, as TechTalk stated some months ago. This price includes the 80mm Lens. No dealer can advertise below MAP. However, any dealer can sell below MAP to an end-user. Whatever happened to TechTalk, anyway? I was afraid he may have morphed into Ray.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As has been stated, the AFi7 does not include any lens - 80mm or otherwise - in the $35,995 price. This is different than the Sinar bundle, which does include the 80mm lens as part of their Hy6/e75LV bundle for $32,500.

Additionally, anyone with an existing Sinar eMotion 75/LV can buy a Hy6 camera and mount their existing 75LV on that camera with an interface kit that costs $559. Or at least as of their last listed pricing information - since we have yet to receive our Hy6 demo unit , I would not presume that this could not change before that time.

We are expecting to receive our AFi7 demo unit this week, and I'm excited about it but; I have to admit it is a perplexing pricing policy from Leaf.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlaanta.com/digital.php
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Steve Hendrix
thsinar
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« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2008, 08:38:51 AM »
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Dear Steve,

this is absolutely correct. And the price of the adapter of eMotion backs to the Hy6 is correct as well, and is not supposed to change any time soon.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
This is different than the Sinar bundle, which does include the 80mm lens as part of their Hy6/e75LV bundle for $32,500.

Additionally, anyone with an existing Sinar eMotion 75/LV can buy a Hy6 camera and mount their existing 75LV on that camera with an interface kit that costs $559. Or at least as of their last listed pricing information - since we have yet to receive our Hy6 demo unit , I would not presume that this could not change before that time.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlaanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167302\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
pixjohn
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« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2008, 11:07:46 AM »
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Frank Doorhof, AndreNapier Have you check out the Leaf forum lately, they don't even respond to other Leaf buyers. The company could careless about fixing the software for existing products.

I am the idiot, I know at least 2 other photographers who returned there Leaf Aptus 75 backs because of the same problem and purchased Phase. Its not just me, but a bad Leaf business model.
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2008, 11:16:11 AM »
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I hardly check their forum, I mail them and get a prompt response, and also from my dealer, and I hear that from more leaf customers.

I don't know what's happening with you but I never judge a firm on their forum, sometimes things can't be posted on a forum but are discusses via mail.

So just mail them directly ?
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rainer_v
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« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2008, 01:27:56 PM »
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I am the idiot, I know at least 2 other photographers who returned there Leaf Aptus 75 backs because of the same problem and purchased Phase. Its not just me, but a bad Leaf business model.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167342\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
about the issues:
i know several collegues who have not full working backs, but the promise to get some "selected" backs and so they wait and wait and wait. some others have got in the meantime 3 or 4(!) backs ,- i talked also with photographers who dont want to post about their faulty backs because they hope  on "betterwill" from leaf if they dont speak bad in public.
as from the beginning most affected are still shooters with shift cameras/ lenses. centerfold with normal mf lenses seems to be controllable mostly with the gain adjusting, but i dont know so many photographers who work outside architecture so my infos are about this special aerea, as allways. and for architecture one use normally shift lenses, where this issue may appear stronger or at least it affords for every new setting a new white gain file, meanwhile mostly with normal mf lenses one white reference can do a pretty good job ( at least in brumbaer tools with sinar, i suppose with gain adjuster it should be similar ).
i.m.o. sinar was rescued through stefan from a similar desaster-,- although its allways hard to say what would have happened if the things would have gone a different way,- so maybe someone there would have found finally a similar code as stefan did, who knows. i really would like to know if dalsa has learned its lesson and will bring out better sensors in the future. if not,- it will look dark for them in mf photography. this would be a pity, because i.m.o. its still the better sensor ( for lo- iso work ).
all this is a crazy story and it seems as there will follow soon a big bang ... if my infos are right. but i will not post more about because i dont want to be the first to publish heavy rumors. lets see.

about the prices:
its very astonishing that there appears such a huge difference between sinar and leaf. seems to be also crazy,- lets see if they will correct this but i think it should not take too long time for that, if leaf wants to sell some AFI/HY cameras too .....

about adapters:
the changing adapter plates on the sinar backs are more worth than its weight in gold, as it seems. i used them a lot in the past,- cause i changed several times my system till i found "my" mf system. changed form my old hassies to contax ( what a relief .... ) and also the gottschalt,- in opposite to alpa- has its own mount, at least in case of my rotatable back. so i changed the adapter from hassy to contax,- this was all i had to do and so i use still my "old" first e75 back, which is now updated to a 75lv..  i unmount the back between the contax and the gottschalt which works pretty fast. also i worked several times with the sinar m for aerials, doing the same here,- changing the adapter. so in total i worked with this back with 4 different cameras, each afforded another mount.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 03:48:48 PM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
pixjohn
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« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2008, 02:42:13 PM »
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I have mailed, called NY, called Israel and begged for working software to fix the problem. I am going to be in Israel next week and wonder if I should  just drop in and let them know I am pissed.

Quote
I hardly check their forum, I mail them and get a prompt response, and also from my dealer, and I hear that from more leaf customers.

I don't know what's happening with you but I never judge a firm on their forum, sometimes things can't be posted on a forum but are discusses via mail.

So just mail them directly ?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As per rainer_v comments about Leaf, he is right on. I have received at least 7-8 phone calls from other shooters who will not post online about the same problems. Look at all my post and still not one fix.

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16277&hl=]magenta problem still not fixed[/url]

YaYa wrote Ill make sure your being taken care of. YaYa any fix after 9 months? Yair seems like a nice guy but its Leaf in Irael who has dropped the ball.

I am on my 5th or 6th back and still not 100% but better

I called Mike Edwards from Leaf more then a week ago and never heard back. Mike is a nice guy but, come on we do have a Lemon Law in CA. If Leaf just got the right software together they would have the best back on the market.  I know for a fact 1 photographer friend did not buy a Leaf back because of the problems I have had. How many other sales have they lost. Just spend the money and fix the software. Israel has some of the best software engineers in the world.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 03:06:17 PM by pixjohn » Logged
yaya
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« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2008, 03:22:43 PM »
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On the contrary to Pixjohn I love my Leaf, however AFI does not offer me a better back than the one I already have (75S) just an ability to put my back on a new unproven system.

H/A75 Guy,
You know from my previous posts that I always try to be wise with my money or how the others call it I am just cheap. I am very busy today but I have no guarantee to work tomorrow. I am the first one to jump on a better sensor or the invest any money for the future of my carrier. I publicly stated that I will pay 100K for 6x7 sensor if anybody wants to try it. HOWEVER!!!
In my books Leaf wants people like me to switch from A75S with H1 mount to  A75S
with their VERY OWN AFI mount and pay anywhere from 14,000 to 21,000 for the move.
There is something amiss with this marketing strategy. My A75s is just 4 months old. The company SCHOULD !!!! offer the mount change for free and than ask me to purchase their camera. I am sure
that Christian from Hasselblad is giggling reading this numbers and the approach Leaf took to swing Hasselblad users towards AFI. That is all I have to say on this topic unless somebody at Leaf opens their eyes and start thinking about marketing. Good luck.
http://AndreNapier
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167209\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hello Andre,

Of course Leaf has introduced its own integrated camera, called the Leaf AFi, and believes it is the best solution on the market. However the Leaf Aptus 75s on any platform is a great system and will achieve the best quality and best results only limited by the camera and lens the customer is using. It is still capable of shooting faster than any other back in both tethered and portable modes, providing the fastest and best quality previews on any size monitor.

Leaf is very happy for people to continue using their current systems (as long as they include a Leaf back). Leaf customers who choose the AFi will enjoy the additional benefits of: a 6x6 AF camera system, AFD Schneider lenses, 3 viewfinder options, a 4 position rotatable grip, single battery operation and full integration of the “Imaging Module” with the Camera/Lens system (full remote control from the software, EXIF data recording, firmware updates through the back etc.)

Leaf does not only market a single camera platform. We understand that no single solution is perfect for everybody and we are committed to continue to develop, sell and support Leaf Backs on as many camera platforms as possible.

The Imaging module (digital back) that is a part of the AFi system, can be mounted on an RZ as well as any 5X4 using adapters made by Leaf. There are also other adapters made by ALPA, Cambo etc. for this module to go on their cameras, so much like in the past, you will still have several options for using it on other platforms.

I hope this helps

Yair
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Sean Reginald Knight
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« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2008, 03:29:18 PM »
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Hello Andre,

Of course Leaf has introduced its own integrated camera, called the Leaf AFi, and believes it is the best solution on the market. However the Leaf Aptus 75s on any platform is a great system and will achieve the best quality and best results only limited by the camera and lens the customer is using. It is still capable of shooting faster than any other back in both tethered and portable modes, providing the fastest and best quality previews on any size monitor.

Leaf is very happy for people to continue using their current systems (as long as they include a Leaf back). Leaf customers who choose the AFi will enjoy the additional benefits of: a 6x6 AF camera system, AFD Schneider lenses, 3 viewfinder options, a 4 position rotatable grip, single battery operation and full integration of the “Imaging Module” with the Camera/Lens system (full remote control from the software, EXIF data recording, firmware updates through the back etc.)

Leaf does not only market a single camera platform. We understand that no single solution is perfect for everybody and we are committed to continue to develop, sell and support Leaf Backs on as many camera platforms as possible.

The Imaging module (digital back) that is a part of the AFi system, can be mounted on an RZ as well as any 5X4 using adapters made by Leaf. There are also other adapters made by ALPA, Cambo etc. for this module to go on their cameras, so much like in the past, you will still have several options for using it on other platforms.

I hope this helps

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I see that you have neatly sidestepped John Gibbel's concerns. How about addressing his grievances? How you address his issues will be helpful to those of us watching on the sidelines, deciding on a MF digital back, because that is how you will address ours.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 03:30:04 PM by Sean Reginald Knight » Logged
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