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Author Topic: ZD back for V System  (Read 3222 times)
uaiomex
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« on: October 19, 2007, 03:24:06 PM »
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Without surprise, Hy6 system prices are sky high as all european mf gear. Most people all around, are betting that Hasselblad won't continue with the development of the CFV. What then for those photographers that prefer "square box" cameras like ALL 6X6 bodies, Mamiya's RB and RZ and Fuji GX680?
We prefer square reflex boxes because it allows for 2 things: The use of the waist level finder and not rotating the camera. It combines The superior compositional capacity of the view-camera with the immediacy of the slr.

The thousand of V cameras around the world, don't have a suitable dback. The CFV's huge 1:5X crop factor is a turn-off for most, despite everything else is quite right. Mamiya came with a superb answer for Mamiya users. I wonder if Mamiya will come soon with a new version of the ZD back able to conect to a viewcamera or other brands. It would be the answer. Most likely Mamiya won't do it in order to force people to get into their systems. I wish to be proven wrong.

How about a third party company coming up with an adapter to attach a ZD back to a 500CM?
I would gladly pay 1.5k for one enginereed to allow the ZD to be used like the CFV on the 500.

Eduardo
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2007, 03:43:45 PM »
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Without surprise, Hy6 system prices are sky high as all european mf gear. Most people all around, are betting that Hasselblad won't continue with the development of the CFV. What then for those photographers that prefer "square box" cameras like ALL 6X6 bodies, Mamiya's RB and RZ and Fuji GX680?
We prefer square reflex boxes because it allows for 2 things: The use of the waist level finder and not rotating the camera. It combines The superior compositional capacity of the view-camera with the immediacy of the slr.

The thousand of V cameras around the world, don't have a suitable dback. The CFV's huge 1:5X crop factor is a turn-off for most, despite everything else is quite right. Mamiya came with a superb answer for Mamiya users. I wonder if Mamiya will come soon with a new version of the ZD back able to conect to a viewcamera or other brands. It would be the answer. Most likely Mamiya won't do it in order to force people to get into their systems. I wish to be proven wrong.

How about a third party company coming up with an adapter to attach a ZD back to a 500CM?
I would gladly pay 1.5k for one enginereed to allow the ZD to be used like the CFV on the 500.

Eduardo
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Adapters between similar sized systems dont really work because thier thickness means the chip is moved off the film plane and even if you adjust your viewer (typically raise the GG by the same amount to compensate and creat visual focus acuracy) infinity focus is lost on most lenses

you cant saw into the camera to make space, and you cant saw into the back to make space!

incidentally 45(ish)  is the largest short side of any chip currently available so larger square chips wont be available until there is a new generation of chip size


S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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wollom
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2007, 04:43:41 PM »
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incidentally 45(ish)  is the largest short side of any chip currently available so larger square chips wont be available until there is a new generation of chip size
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Dalsa have made a 100mm x 100mm CCD for military applications.  (111 Mpx)
[a href=\"http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189500300]http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArtic...cleID=189500300[/url]
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marcwilson
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2007, 05:06:40 PM »
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The thousand of V cameras around the world, don't have a suitable dback. The CFV's huge 1:5X crop factor is a turn-off for most, despite everything else is quite right.
Eduardo
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but you can use most digital backs on v series camera to give you the same sensor / image size as any other mf system. So you do not need to wait for the zd to fit on a view camera or thus v series camera...of course waiting for a full size sensor may take a long time!..and so yes to shoot sqaure, as many like to do, involves a large 1.5 crop factor whatever camera / back combo you use, whether 500cm with cfv or 500cm or any other camera with the zd back.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 05:07:48 PM by marcwilson » Logged

uaiomex
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2007, 08:21:19 PM »
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Yes, current 22mp 49X36mm dbacks from Leaf or PhaseOne seem to be the only chance. I've been scanning the internet for used or refurbished, but they still are selling for gold.
How long do you think I have to wait in order to buy a used P25 for $ 10,000 usd with a 6mo. warranty?

Eduardo


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but you can use most digital backs on v series camera to give you the same sensor / image size as any other mf system. So you do not need to wait for the zd to fit on a view camera or thus v series camera...of course waiting for a full size sensor may take a long time!..and so yes to shoot sqaure, as many like to do, involves a large 1.5 crop factor whatever camera / back combo you use, whether 500cm with cfv or 500cm or any other camera with the zd back.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2007, 10:35:29 PM »
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Yes, current 22mp 49X36mm dbacks from Leaf or PhaseOne seem to be the only chance. I've been scanning the internet for used or refurbished, but they still are selling for gold.
How long do you think I have to wait in order to buy a used P25 for $ 10,000 usd with a 6mo. warranty?

Eduardo
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Becasue they are gold !

Youd get an imacon (hasselblad) for that I reckon - one that you shoot to a thingy - or a leaf valeo (smaller thingy)

or a P25 for $15000

I dont know about your finances/pro am status but $5000 'costed' over 3 years either mentally or as a loan is pretty minimal amount

It is cheaper than not shooting images or getting pretty minimal amounts of film processed

The only money I have wasted on MF is when I didnt spend enough money and bought a Proback - it had to go - at a loss

If you have the MF itch i'd just jump in - you could spend a life of frustration wiating for the next quality breakthrough or price breakthrough

And you wont lose much to jump out agian

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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uaiomex
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2007, 11:28:34 PM »
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Yes Morgan, you're right, again.
But my finances don't allow me to spend 15k.
So, do you have an idea about how long it will take for these back to reduced its price by 1/3?
Anyone?

Eduardo


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Becasue they are gold !

Youd get an imacon (hasselblad) for that I reckon - one that you shoot to a thingy - or a leaf valeo (smaller thingy)

or a P25 for $15000

I dont know about your finances/pro am status but $5000 'costed' over 3 years either mentally or as a loan is pretty minimal amount

It is cheaper than not shooting images or getting pretty minimal amounts of film processed

The only money I have wasted on MF is when I didnt spend enough money and bought a Proback - it had to go - at a loss

If you have the MF itch i'd just jump in - you could spend a life of frustration wiating for the next quality breakthrough or price breakthrough

And you wont lose much to jump out agian

S
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2007, 01:30:57 AM »
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But my finances don't allow me to spend 15k.


Eduardo
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A year or two ?

I dont want to know about your finincail situation but a am happy to share mine

Around three or four years ago I decided to hunt for digital quality - I was shooting a D1 and a 645ProTL for 'quality' work - I was tipped when my local lab processed my trannies of the new 'MINI' car in C41 - I thought - DIGITAL IT MUST BE from now on

I had about $10000 in straight cash.

What I wanted was the brand new released P25 or sinarE22 - they cost more than twice that

So I bought a used kodak pro back for my $10000 on a mamiya

I was fully aware of the loser flash synch speed and the dismal crop but I only had that cash

So I got the thing. Actually in the right light (lots and even) it produced amazing files

So amazing that I knew I could not take my D100 (top at the time) seriously ever again

So then I was stuck - I 'needed' to be shooting MFDB (no 1ds2 yet) but the tool I had was severely limited

So I flogged it all for $5000 and then got a loan to buy the E22 and H1 system

The internal memory of the E22 saved me $2000 in CF card costs !!!!!!!

So with hindsight the interest payments on a loan for the cash I didnt have would have been far less than the loss I sustained on buying the wrong gear and I would have had another year of 'unrestricted' shooting

Your choice - you have it a lot cheaper and easier now

If you are really stressed for cash buy a 5d

S
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 01:38:00 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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uaiomex
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2007, 11:25:39 AM »
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The most interesting part about all you've said, is that after making the hurting first investment, smartly upgrading for better backs won't be as hard.

I have a 5D. Best bang for the money in the universe, but I like to print 24X30. Stitching is not possible in a lot of situations.

Eduardo



Quote
A year or two ?

I dont want to know about your finincail situation but a am happy to share mine

Around three or four years ago I decided to hunt for digital quality - I was shooting a D1 and a 645ProTL for 'quality' work - I was tipped when my local lab processed my trannies of the new 'MINI' car in C41 - I thought - DIGITAL IT MUST BE from now on

I had about $10000 in straight cash.

What I wanted was the brand new released P25 or sinarE22 - they cost more than twice that

So I bought a used kodak pro back for my $10000 on a mamiya

I was fully aware of the loser flash synch speed and the dismal crop but I only had that cash

So I got the thing. Actually in the right light (lots and even) it produced amazing files

So amazing that I knew I could not take my D100 (top at the time) seriously ever again

So then I was stuck - I 'needed' to be shooting MFDB (no 1ds2 yet) but the tool I had was severely limited

So I flogged it all for $5000 and then got a loan to buy the E22 and H1 system

The internal memory of the E22 saved me $2000 in CF card costs !!!!!!!

So with hindsight the interest payments on a loan for the cash I didnt have would have been far less than the loss I sustained on buying the wrong gear and I would have had another year of 'unrestricted' shooting

Your choice - you have it a lot cheaper and easier now

If you are really stressed for cash buy a 5d

S
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marcwilson
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2007, 12:17:10 PM »
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I have a 5D. Best bang for the money in the universe, but I like to print 24X30. Stitching is not possible in a lot of situations.

Eduardo
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If you say you like to print 24x30 inches I assume you mean you make these prints for selling as opposed to it being part of commercial work.
I appreciate if you feel your 5d does not give you the quality you want at that print size. Many are happy to print even larger than that from 5d's etc but I am not one of them.
In fact I do not sell a print any larger than 12x16 inches from my 5d.

So perhaps you should still be using mf / lf film for larger prints work?

Of course it is a pain as it means using a different camera for that work, and then getting shots with the 5d you do not want to print bigger..but the only way aound the 2 camera process is to shoot with a digital back that will give you the quality YOU are happy with..and yes that is expensive..so if you can not afford it, or simply do not feel it is financially clever to spend that much money on print sale (non commercial) work then you need to go with the film option.

That said, once you know what db you would need to get the quality that only you can be happy with, if you can find a way to finance it that makes sense to you then do it as getting rid of the prcessing, scanning, part of the workflow is great...I love shooting with my hasselblad having gone back to it after trying many other options, and like to shoot square so for me I'd really need a P45 or similar to get close, once cropped to square, to the 40x40 inch quality I get from drum scanned velvia...and the cost of a P45 is equal to a lot of film and scanning!

Good luck in what ever you choose to do.

Marc

Marc
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