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Author Topic: The state of MFDB  (Read 21935 times)
Geoffrey
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« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2007, 02:37:15 PM »
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Thierry,

I'd like to put some thought into what you are saying here. Not only do I think the Sinar approach will not work very effectively for the US market (we can both understand why and will probably agree), but I also have a strong sense that the current approach isn't going to work in Europe as well. Look at the Hy6 communication campaign as it is right now, designed by a southern German marketing company (speaking about traditional thinking). It looks like a Siemens Green Energy ad, solely targeted at German customers! Who the hell at Sinar thought this was a good idea? Why not ask a London or Amsterdam based agency? From internationally oriented countries with worldwide trade in their DNA. To me the choice of the Munich agency is showing that Sinar has to go a very, very long way before it really understands what needs to change. My main advice for Sinar would be: stop looking inside and start looking to the world outside. Freud and Jung are already dead sometime now.

Best regards,
EPd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147644\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

agreed.
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TechTalk
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« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2007, 04:23:10 PM »
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Also, Hasselblad has been researching, designing and producing products for electronic imaging since the 1980's. [{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


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That is interesting: which electronic imaging products are you referring to, beyond adding digital back compatibility to some bodies?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147614\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The subsidary company "Hasselblad Electronic Imaging AB" was formed in 1985 to research, develop and manufacture digital imaging and transmission systems. The products they produced in the 1980's and 1990's were primarily used in the journalism (image scanning and transmission equipment for newspapers) and medical fields (scanning specimen images). Notable products from this period would be the Hasselblad Dixel scanner and modem systems for scanning and transmitting images. Hasselblad received patents on these devices.  [a href=\"http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4717966-description.html]U.S. Patent #4717966 Link[/url]  U.S. Patent #4891693  Patent Ref. #2 Link Also there were software programs like ImageDepot and ImageTuner for newspaper picture desk editors  See Hasselblad "Electronic Links" Section  See Item #26 in Link

The subsidary was sold off in 1997 as Hasselblad focused their attention on the research and development of the "H" camera system. Capital realized from the sale was invested in the new "H" project.

Sorry, I know that you don't want to think about Hasselblad actually doing anything but marketing an image.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 06:38:04 PM by TechTalk » Logged
TechTalk
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« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2007, 05:59:04 PM »
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BJL,

I'm bored and weary of this game. I suspect others are too. If you choose to post your assumptions regarding the financial and R&D relationships between Hasselblad and Fuji, have at it. If readers want to believe it based on your memory of "various items I have read including articles in photography magazines" and your "understanding", then they can believe what ever they would like to believe (as you do).

In a nutshell, what you are asking people to believe is that "Fuji is paying most or all of the R&D costs for the non-digital side of the H system" and that Fuji does nearly all of the manufacturing of the "H" system, and that despite Fuji carrying nearly all of the financial burden for R&D and manufacture, they give decision making authority to Hasselblad to discontinue the H1 and H2, replace the H2 with the more limited appeal H2F, to limit the use of the 28mm lens to the H3D and focus on selling a smaller volume of "H" systems that are integrated with Hasselblad's digital backs! Please explain the logic of this scenario! In the high-tech business world that I know, the company providing the investment, capital, resources and R&D calls the shots. With all of this investment, lead design work, R&D and Hasselblad being just a marketing device, why doesn't Fuji just sell the H1 body themselves–now that Hasselblad is no longer doing so?

In your view, Fuji pays nearly all of the costs, does all of the R&D, does all of the essential manufacturing and in return all they want is the right to sell a limited version of the system in Japan! Hey, I want to be a business partner with Fuji! You expect me to believe that they will pay all of the costs and do all of the work, while I collect the money and the brand recognition! They must not know anything about business and have business lawyers with collective brains the size of a pea!

The relationship that you have presented makes NO business sense, defies common sense and is devoid of any logic or reason. But then again, you do recall reading about in a magazine somewhere, though you are "open to the possibility of being in error on some points". What a waste of time. I'm done.

As for me, I'm NOT digging up documentation on Fuji or Hasselblad's financing, R&D or production of the "H" system. I don't have any and neither do you and never have. I have, however, visited Hasselblad facilities in Scandinavia in the course of business (NO, I've never been a Hasselblad employee), I've seen the R&D departments and talked with engineers and talked with the CEO on a few occasions (a very interesting and intelligent guy to talk to). I'm satisfied that they are a very creative, industrious and smart group of people. They are hardly sitting back and relaxing with the "H" system while Fuji pays all the bills and does all the work–despite your illogical assumptions.

Just so you can be factual in the future on at least ONE thing, despite your attachment to that DP Review article's mistake, there is NO "Hasselblad-Imacon" company. Imacon was simply folded into the umbrella of the existing Hasselblad structure and use of the Imacon name disappeared. For the record the complete and correct corporate names are: Victor Hasselblad AB (Sweden), Hasselblad A/S (Denmark) (formerly Imacon before merger), Hasselblad USA Inc., Hasselblad Vertriebsgesellschaft mbH (Germany), Hasselblad (UK) Ltd and Hasselblad France SAS.

Have at it. I'm done with this silly game.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 09:43:21 PM by TechTalk » Logged
Photomangreg
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« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2007, 06:25:00 PM »
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I did not create the name "Hasselblad Imacon"; they did. To quote a source I mentioned before, http://www.dpreview.com/news/0408/04081701...lbladimacon.asp

Though it is often called just "Hasselblad" for short. Then again, "Fujifilm" is often called "Fuji" for short!


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147651\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I believe you are misreading the DP review quote "The Executive Team of the merged Hasselblad Imacon company", and that is understandable as DP review erronously says "The new company will be called Hasselblad Imacon and will be clearly targeting the professional digital market. "  The company is Victor Hasselblad A/S, that is the name they are filed under in DK.  

As for Fujifilm, that name changed from Fuji Photo Film Co. Inc. in 2006
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 06:27:37 PM by Photomangreg » Logged
paulhu
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« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2007, 09:00:31 PM »
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Following are some excerpts from a November 2002 article in www.photo.net by Michael Reichmann regarding the introduction of Hasselblad H1:

So Who Makes The H1?

A lot has been made by some people about the fact that H1 is the result of a joint venture between Hasselblad and Fuji. I asked one of the Hasselblad reps about the details of this partnership. Hasselblad conceived the H1 camera system and lenses and was responsible for their design, including the specification of the lenses. The unique new shutters that are in the lenses, and the camera body itself are also built by Hasselblad in Sweden, while the lenses, meter prism and film backs are built by Fuji.

The project began in 1997, and was committed by 1999, with a projected late 2002 launch date. The entire project has cost Hasselblad approximately $35 million, which must represent a major component of the company’s anticipated sales and revenues.

In this era of the globalization, an arrangement where a company designs a product and then finds the best engineering and manufacturing resources, regardless of where in the world they may be located, makes perfect sense. Many companies market products that have components made in one country, designed in a second, and assembled in a third. So why not Hasselblad? As long as the design (the gestalt) of the camera remains true to form, I see no harm, and in fact there are many potential benefits from bringing more fertile minds to bear than can be found in one company. My brief time with the H1 shows it to have the full Hasselblad DNA and to be a worthy member of the Hasselblad family.


Hope this can clear up some confusion.
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Photomangreg
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« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2007, 09:03:18 PM »
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Following are some excerpts from a November 2002 article in www.photo.net by Michael Reichmann regarding the introduction of Hasselblad H1:


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147715\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Nice digging!
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AndreNapier
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« Reply #86 on: October 21, 2007, 10:32:08 PM »
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I really do not think that dipping any deeper into the Hassy/Fuji/Imacon argument will bring any of us photographers a single grain of benefit.
I had the pleasure few months ago to spend several hours in meeting with Christian Poulsen and brainstorm his visions and ideas for future of Hasselblad. We may or may not principally agree of a lot of issues but one thing is very certain for me, Hasselblad has very bright and strong leadership with full conviction of chosen directions. Hasselblad is light years ahead with their plans to keep the leading position in MFD market. Any contenders will face the same hardship as other DSLR's companies trying to beat Canon at their game.

For Sinar and Rollei goes my deepest sympathy and the best wishes for future. I love Rollei glass and so much wish to see them succeed.
As I stated before: new approach to advertising is the key in the fight with bigger and stronger contender.
For the past twenty years I am in business of making business. My main interest is development of start up operation in connection with real estate developments in Eastern Europe. What it mean in reality is that we take what nobody wants and turn it through creative marketing into desire investment. I do not claim to be a marketing expert but in 20 years real live experience I consistently outscore national averages in investment returns.
Here in short is my approach and couple of tips for Sinar:
When we look at a project we ask ourself a question of the amount of our resources and where we want to be in 3 to 5 years after the investment. We understand that success of our project are based on creating a demand and thus for we allocate huge portion of the budget for creating positive image of the product. Secondly we understand the importance of instant availabillities and
product visibilities. Thirdly we target one market at a time with all available resources.  
The best advertising for medical product will do nothing if it is available in every Walgreens in USA. Same goes for Sinar : as long as every renting house in USA ins not going to have your product available for rent, there is no chance to excel. If they do not want to purchase it offer it at your base cost without investment appreciation. Put your cameras in the hands of the loudest and most visible players for free. Do not expect Tiger Woods to pay for his clubs. Create a positive buzz in editorial world and make yourself visible in all printed photo medias with recognizable industry leaders. Most importantly look far ahead and do not worry if your initial marketing put you in the red in the first to years of new venture.
Andre
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TechTalk
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« Reply #87 on: October 21, 2007, 10:47:21 PM »
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For the truly obsessed or very curious folks...

Question: Who developed the electronics and software for the H1?

Answer: Hasselblad contracted a Swedish company, Teleca Systems AB for the job.

Teleca / Hasselblad Link    Teleca Link #2 (Page #20 at the bottom)

And the answer for the bonus round question... The auto-focus system and focusing screen came from Minolta (now Sony).
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 11:25:43 PM by TechTalk » Logged
TechTalk
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« Reply #88 on: October 21, 2007, 10:55:38 PM »
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I really do not think that dipping any deeper into the Hassy/Fuji/Imacon argument will bring any of us photographers a single grain of benefit.

Andre
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147733\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry Andre. I think that you're absolutely right. I'm done.

I'm glad that you had a chance to speak with Christian. Very interesting guy! As for Hasselblad's future and the survival of medium-format digital (more in line with the original intent of this thread), it's worth noting that they have been profitable the last few years. Somebody has to make money, making medium-format systems, or it will all fade away.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 11:15:54 PM by TechTalk » Logged
AndreNapier
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« Reply #89 on: October 21, 2007, 11:36:26 PM »
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... it's worth noting that they have been profitable the last few years. Somebody has to make money, making medium-format systems, or it will all fade away.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147740\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not only that Hassy is profitable ( thanks to new brilliant marketing strategy) they also manage to overcome horrible initial reception of H cameras. We all remember the dentists jokes and the fact that you could not open any forum without seeing majority of people spilling their guts about the bad bokeh even if they did not know what it really means. It was a very hard task but they manuver marvelously and highly deserve to cash on it now.
....Did I mention that hassy lenses have no mojo. LOL>
Andre
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TechTalk
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« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2007, 02:19:27 AM »
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Not only that Hassy is profitable ( thanks to new brilliant marketing strategy) they also manage to overcome horrible initial reception of H cameras. We all remember the dentists jokes and the fact that you could not open any forum without seeing majority of people spilling their guts about the bad bokeh even if they did not know what it really means. It was a very hard task but they manuver marvelously and highly deserve to cash on it now.
....Did I mention that hassy lenses have no mojo. LOL>
Andre
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hasselblad, in my opinion, has done both a poor job and a good job in marketing. I think they have done a poor job of explaining and marketing their technology advantages. They've done a pretty good job in the image/branding area of their marketing.

One of the best image marketing tools that I've seen is the Victor magazine. They are super glossy, over-sized and extremely high quality magazines in six languages. They also charge a lot of money for them! Each magazine has creative shooting sessions profiled and a video of each shoot is posted online. The most recent issue has a knockout Betty Page look model. For the Betty Page fans, the video is here...  [a href=\"http://www.victorbyhasselblad.com/english/victor%2Dvideo.aspx]Betty H. Page Video Link[/url]
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thsinar
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« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2007, 09:25:47 AM »
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I DID, make a sticky, Thansk EPd!

I just wish to add a little precision which is important for me: yes, there is an independent firm in Switzerland producing the electronics of the Hy6. However, the founder was a Sinar employee when we developped and designed the Sinar m.

Best regards,
Thierry

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- An independent electronics firm in Switzerland, which also designed the Sinar m electronics, designed and produces the electronic circuitry of the Hy6 AFi;

Now if someone could make this a sticky message, I would be much obliged.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147498\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
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