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Author Topic: Rollie w/ Phase backs  (Read 9413 times)
eronald
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2007, 02:41:42 PM »
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again, the "various well-informed sources"! I can't beleive it. When then will you stop to believe well-informed sources?. And even if that was true, what would have been wrong to discuss with Phase???

Fact is that myself and here I was asked in January about the adaption of backs other then Sinar and Leaf backs, if not in December when I joined LL. And since then I am saying, repeting and writing the same here. And I am still saying the same about PO. I do remember you that I put my signature with my name and the company I am working for under my posts.

So Edmund, please do not try to involve Jenoptik or Sinar in rumours about PO, this is simply misleading.

Thanks for your understanding,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147833\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Thierry,

We are talking about old events here, which happened one year ago. I have no idea what is happening now.

However, regarding my reports of those old events,  when someone who happens to be a CEO of a company involved in some topic talks to me off the record about that topic, I act professionally as a journalist and call him a well-informed source because what he is saying is not exactly what one calls a rumor, and as a CEO that person is entitled to set his own rules about how he talks.

Apart from that if you want to continue calling me a liar please go ahead if it makes you happy - I don't get offended that easily, I just find it's getting boring

Edmund

PS. Thierry, instead of wasting effort on figuring out whether I'm a decent journalist, why not go tell your company I would like to mount my Phase back on the Hy6 and am ready to buy such a Hy6 ? That seems a more constructive and lucrative use of your time. Surely representatives of a company are allowed to tell their company what products clients would wish to buy ?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 02:53:57 PM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
jpjespersen
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2007, 03:25:03 PM »
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Take this for what it is.  Don't freak out like usual Thierry.   http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4172
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juicy
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2007, 04:10:01 PM »
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Take this for what it is.  Don't freak out like usual Thierry.   http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4172
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147933\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What is it?  

Cheers,
J
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2007, 04:11:27 PM »
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There is zero new information in that thread.
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jpjespersen
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2007, 05:47:49 PM »
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Its why I said take it for what it is,  there is a thousand ways to interpret that little amount of information.  I took it as-  we are still having problems with the hy6 compatibility, but it you wait long enough we will have a solution.  Also apologizing for the cryptic-ness at the end suggests he is not telling us something.
be what it be.
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"If I where you I would hold my horses for a while, it is a new platform and might have some quirks that has to be solve. Not uncommon with any new camera platform. Currently we do not have a Hy6 solution but that does not necessarily mean that there will never be one........"

What he is saying is: don't buy a Hy6, until it has proven to be a solid platform, so much so that we are forced to make a PhaseOne solution for it. If that isn't a fine specimen of bad-mouthing a new product, I wouldn't know what else it is.
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« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 05:48:29 PM by jpjespersen » Logged
LA30
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2007, 06:09:27 PM »
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Ok, I will play.  I was at the photo show this weekend, in fact I got a nice shinny phase one pen.  When I was at the booth I heard from a dealer that Phase might introduce something very interesting this year.  This was in regards to my comment about hasselblad canning the H2.  So who knows what will happen.

Ken
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thsinar
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« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2007, 12:07:13 AM »
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Dear Edmund,

I will NOT let you say this: this is simply over the board!

1. I have never said that you are a liar! WHAT I said was that Sinar's and Jenoptik's communication shortly before, during and after Photokina was clear, concerning the Leica deal.

----> YOU suggested it was not clear, that we had spread rumors and misinformation

I am sorry, I cannot let this stand as such. The proves and company statement and press releases are there to confirm what I say, and they have been issued in time.

2. You speak about "well-informed" sources without naming them, telling you that there are discussions going on with PO. In your initial post your speak about "various" sources. Now all of a sudden it is ONE single source. How things change from one post to another!

But again: this is NOT the point. What the hell is the problem IF there WERE discussions going on with PO at the time of Photokina??? WHY do you even mention this? Is it a crime, if such is the case?

Did you report them at this time? Probably, if my remembrance is right. What have you been answered when you asked the question about an adapter for PO? Dig back and read my answers, please.

FACT is: I have informed since very long (January '07), that there will be NO attachment/adapter from Sinar (understand Jenoptik), when asked. That must be the result of these discussions, don't you think so? And as such it has been informed by Sinar (Jenoptik), since under my name stands "Sinar AG Switzerland".

Not only has it been informed by myself on LL, but also on our homepage during the "Ask your questions about the Hy6" tread.

And ANY Sinar employee you would have asked would have told you the very same answer: that PO was not part of the project and as such that there will be no adapter from us for the attachment of their backs (so for Hasselblad).

Again, you suggest that it is (was) Sinar/Jenoptik having created rumors and not having cleared them: I simply cannot let you say this.

I simply cannot understand what you are trying to say but to put purposely dirt on the comapny names.

3. I wish also to clear "if you want to continue calling me a liar"

You purposely distort what I am writing. WHERE did I write this?

I simply and only suggested to avoid speaking about/believing "well-informed" sources. Some recent events have shown where it leads when not doing so.

I feel sorry, but I did not know that you were a journalist, and I actually don't really know what you are excatly, since you never described yourself. I would have it hard to discredit you as a journalist when not knowing you are one.

4. Your P.S.

I must be dreaming! You have the courage to turn around the subject and ask this question again? Do you actually read what has been communicated?

I feel sorry Edmund, you have no right to bash on me or on Sinar the way you are doing it. And I will be here each and any time to correct your non-sense.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Dear Thierry,

We are talking about old events here, which happened one year ago. I have no idea what is happening now.

However, regarding my reports of those old events, when someone who happens to be a CEO of a company involved in some topic talks to me off the record about that topic, I act professionally as a journalist and call him a well-informed source because what he is saying is not exactly what one calls a rumor, and as a CEO that person is entitled to set his own rules about how he talks.

Apart from that if you want to continue calling me a liar please go ahead if it makes you happy - I don't get offended that easily, I just find it's getting boring

Edmund

PS. Thierry, instead of wasting effort on figuring out whether I'm a decent journalist, why not go tell your company I would like to mount my Phase back on the Hy6 and am ready to buy such a Hy6 ? That seems a more constructive and lucrative use of your time. Surely representatives of a company are allowed to tell their company what products clients would wish to buy ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 01:59:11 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2007, 12:14:04 AM »
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freak-out: an outburst of emotion(s) or wild behavior/a drug-induced bout of hallucination or paranoia.

If speaking out and correcting misleading information and standing here to give the right one is an outburst of emotions or a wild behavior, then you are right.

But I can assure you that I am drug-free and without any hallucination nor paranoia!

Be re-assured that I will stand here each time and when I feel it necessary to burst out my emotion and show my wild behavior to correct and/or inform.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Take this for what it is. Don't freak out like usual Thierry. http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4172
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147933\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 02:03:45 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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eronald
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« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2007, 12:17:02 AM »
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Dear Edmund,

4. Your P.S.

I must be dreaming! You have the courage to turn around the subject and ask this question again? Do you actually read what has been communicated?

I feel sorry Edmund, you have no right to bash on me or on Sinar the way you are doing it. And I will be here each and any time to correct your non-sense.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148019\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry, let's forget this topic, since it makes both of us unhappy, and is of no special importance in the end.

I have no intention of bashing Sinar, a very respected company, that has long been known for some of the world's highest quality view cameras and is now marketing a brand new MF camera design.

Edmund
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 12:21:39 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
thsinar
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« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2007, 12:19:38 AM »
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Thanks Edmund,

It was my "wild behavior" and "outburst of emotions"!

Thierry

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Thierry, let's forget this topic, since it makes both of us unhappy. I have no intention of bashing Sinar, a very respected company, that has long been known for some of the world's highest quality view cameras and is now marketing a brand new MF camera design.

Edmund
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Thierry Hagenauer
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eronald
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« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2007, 12:23:36 AM »
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Thanks Edmund,

It was my "wild behavior" and "outburst of emotions"!

Thierry
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Mutual apologies accepted, then, I guess !

I envy the good climate in your part of the world at this time of year!

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
thsinar
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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2007, 12:29:56 AM »
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Yes!

 

I guess you mean th "cool" season in Thailand?! Well, it is kind of better, if you know that instead of 35-40C it comes down to 30-35C. Still, I am struggling hard to cope with it!

 

Best regards,
thierry
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 12:32:56 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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John Camp
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2007, 12:35:47 AM »
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I would think that Phase and Mamiya would be taking a long look at each other. The Mamiya back is pretty far behind the competition -- though, of course, they could be innovating like crazy behind the scenes. But a deal with Phase, for a back that many people consider the best, and that works with the current and future 645 and even RZs...that would be a DEAL. Enopugh of a deal that it might put the Hasselblad and the Sinar in some trouble...

JC
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2007, 12:41:33 AM »
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I would think that Phase and Mamiya would be taking a long look at each other. The Mamiya back is pretty far behind the competition -- though, of course, they could be innovating like crazy behind the scenes. But a deal with Phase, for a back that many people consider the best, and that works with the current and future 645 and even RZs...that would be a DEAL. Enopugh of a deal that it might put the Hasselblad and the Sinar in some trouble...

JC
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148030\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Although they might seem like a match, I don't think that Phase One backs offer anything so unique that it would be enough to make people switch to Mamiya 645 with its slow flash sync, no choice of viewfinders, etc. It's a compromised system.
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david o
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2007, 01:06:43 AM »
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ok for the low sync speed but I am not sure it's that much needed. I know you use high speed sync.
But for landscape, archi, interiors, studio is could be not that important.
Sport and fashion remains.
Usually sport doesn't fit with MF.
I could have missed a lot of other way of interest for high sync.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2007, 02:23:42 AM »
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ok for the low sync speed but I am not sure it's that much needed. I know you use high speed sync.
But for landscape, archi, interiors, studio is could be not that important.
Sport and fashion remains.
Usually sport doesn't fit with MF.
I could have missed a lot of other way of interest for high sync.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148038\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is/was not the biggest use of MF wedding photography - love it or hate it !

Now you have a one off timed event in the middle of the day and no conrtol over the ambient light and little control over the location

Your 'models' always wear a challengin combination of outfits a dark suit and a white dress - that you MUST NOT blow out

Your models also dont really have thier mind on thier moddelling assignment so tend to want to do thier poses fast and often they have been drinking too  

If ever there was a synch speed requirement I have just described it

Aditionally most likely you need to do a really big group shot - maybe in an en closed space - and do it fast

I'd say 75% of pros who dont major on weddings usually do a few becuase they cant resist $4000 for a days work (often to put in a pot that fincances exotic gear like MFDBs)

SO id say 80% of the market requires the ability to do weddings (or coprorate events in similar situations)

Mamiya cant handle weddings - no synch

HY6 cant handle weddings - no wide for that group shot - and it is that group shot that you will sell a load of big enlargements of

Synch speed reduces  the weight/cost of flashes you must carry too

So you ask why did maiya do OK in the past - easy - you used 25ISO when the sun was shining - but that is not an option on DBs - its not just about fast shutters - its about killing the ambient

IMO synch speed is critical to the success of any camera system and DB maker who interfaces with it

S
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 02:37:42 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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david o
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« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2007, 02:36:32 AM »
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don't bring me in any kind of "love it or hate it"
I said I could have missed a lot of field of high sync. use


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Is/was not the biggest use of MF wedding photography - love it or hate it !

Now you have a one off timed event in the middle of the day and no conrtol over the ambient light and little control over the location

Your 'models' always wear a challengin combination of outfits a dark suit and a white dress - that you MUST NOT blow out

Your models also dont really have thier mind on thier moddelling assignment so tend to want to do thier poses fast

If ever there was a synch speed requirement I have just described it

Aditionally most likely you need to do a really big group shot - maybe in an en closed space - and do it fast

I'd say 75% of pros who dont major on weddings usually do a few becuase they cant resist $4000 for a days work

SO id say 80% of the market requires the ability to do weddings (or coprorate events in similar situations)

Mamiya cant handle weddings - no synch

HY6 cant handle weddings - no wide for that group shot - and it is that group shot that you will sell a load of big enlargements of

Synch speed reduces  the weight/cost of flashes you must carry too

So you ask why did maiya do OK in the past - easy - you used 25ISO when the sun was shining - but that is not an option on DBs - its not just about fast shutters - its about killing the ambient

IMO synch speed is critical to the success of any camera system and DB maker who interfaces with it

S
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2007, 02:47:23 AM »
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don't bring me in any kind of "love it or hate it"
I said I could have missed a lot of field of high sync. use
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148044\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am trying to demonstrate that jobbing pros the guys known in the UK as 'general practice' photographers - doing weddings, corporate a bit of product etc have  to the best of my knowledge always been the bigest market for MF kit

And the 'future of phase' which is the topic - must IMO - if it is to be a bright one - cater for this bunch of shooters and thier requirement to satisfy a multitiude of demanding customers

That doesnt mean there is no 'value' ("love or hate") for other kit, shooting style or photographic process;  from holgas and lensbabies through to multishot on a viewcam or 10.8 plates processed in a bath - I love it all and would personally certainly be more likely to want a print for my lounge or foyer of one of your motel photos than a photo of my dog, my boss or my sisters wedding* - but I am a minority in the global marketplace

Im talking about market share = bright future

not criticisining anyones personal kit choice or shooting style

Market share IMO for DB makers, unlike small companies like lensbaby, who are probably a very happy and secure company, is critical because the R+D cost are so high and those costs need to be spread to make them viable

S

*none of those things exist
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 03:13:42 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2007, 08:54:11 AM »
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HY6 cant handle weddings - no wide for that group shot - and it is that group shot that you will sell a load of big enlargements of

There are two 40mm lenses for the Hy6. Wide enough for most situations and a 35mm lens is on the way. I don't see this as an issue.
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jpjespersen
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2007, 09:57:39 AM »
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Some drugs might do you well.  
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freak-out: an outburst of emotion(s) or wild behavior/a drug-induced bout of hallucination or paranoia.

If speaking out and correcting misleading information and standing here to give the right one is an outburst of emotions or a wild behavior, then you are right.

But I can assure you that I am drug-free and without any hallucination nor paranoia!

Be re-assured that I will stand here each time and when I feel it necessary to burst out my emotion and show my wild behavior to correct and/or inform.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148021\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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