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Author Topic: ZD Back Test  (Read 32197 times)
JonTMiller2
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« on: November 07, 2007, 03:47:41 PM »
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After a comment that the image I posted had purple blobs, I decided to text my ZD back with a printed 16x20 target made up of graduated monochrome steps.  Using a ZD back on an RZ IID, 110mm lens, 1/400 f32 with strobe lighting, iso 50, I shot the target.

This is the same setup that I used for several pieces of artwork.  I discovered two things.  Any purple blob issue was obscure.  But, I had dead pixels showing as dark spots larger than one pixel.  I called Mamiya on Thursday.  They requested that I send them the back for replacement.  The replacement arrived today.

Just shot the test target again which is attached.  Sorry, it is a jpg and not very exciting but revealing.  Close up you will see blemishes.  THEY ARE IN THE PRINT.

I am very pleased with the response from Mamiya.  I am also in love with the back on my RZ (and AFD).  The RZ setup in the studio is great.

I did not test the ZD at higher ISOs.  I was shooting at f32 as it was.

I started shooting weddings with an RB67.  When I wanted no noise, I used pan-X pushed to ASA 100.  When speed, Tri-x  and lived with the noise as part of the process.

Thank you, Mamiya!
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2007, 03:56:11 PM »
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hmmm....I hope that's jpeg artifacts that I'm seeing because otherwise that sure looks like a noisy file for ISO 50 at least to me.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 03:57:19 PM by EricWHiss » Logged

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JonTMiller2
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2007, 04:43:34 PM »
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The target was printed on watercolor paper.  Uncompressed, the image has texture similar to the paper.  In order to post, I had to set the jpg quality to 5.
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mcfoto
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 04:51:27 PM »
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Hi
Enjoy your ZD back & its good to hear how good the service is from the MAC group.
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Denis Montalbetti
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Snook
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 05:04:00 PM »
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Is this your new shot or the older back..
In the second to outer black/grey line there is purple blobbing all over?
How can you miss this?
does anyone else see it? I see Purple blobbing all over the second to darkets part.. Or is that Jpeg artifacting???
Hope it is the jpeging?
Does anybody else see the purple blotches?
Thanks for the Post
Snook
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david o
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 05:24:46 PM »
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Snook,
I see at the border of the darker gray but as it follows perfectly the square I think it must be due to jpg. Not random at all.
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JonTMiller2
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2007, 05:37:08 PM »
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Quote
Is this your new shot or the older back..
In the second to outer black/grey line there is purple blobbing all over?
How can you miss this?
does anyone else see it? I see Purple blobbing all over the second to darkets part.. Or is that Jpeg artifacting???
Hope it is the jpeging?
Does anybody else see the purple blotches?
Thanks for the Post
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151173\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IN acr, I took samples all over the image.  I get uniform readings.  I do not see any blobs on my calibrated 1920x1200 display.  Even whe I zoom at 400% on the posted image, I do not see.
Huh
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JonTMiller2
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2007, 05:42:50 PM »
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Snook,
I see at the border of the darker gray but as it follows perfectly the square I think it must be due to jpg. Not random at all.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151179\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I saw the same issue on my display (before jpg).  When I took color samples in the region you noticed, I got uniform rgb readings across the area of difference.  I think it is a display technology issue???
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mcfoto
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2007, 05:54:12 PM »
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IN acr, I took samples all over the image.  I get uniform readings.  I do not see any blobs on my calibrated 1920x1200 display.  Even whe I zoom at 400% on the posted image, I do not see.
Huh
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151183\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
Then don't worry about it as you don't have it. For people interested in the ZD they should test it themselves  on a test shoot.
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Denis Montalbetti
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samuel_js
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2007, 06:10:10 PM »
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Quote
Is this your new shot or the older back..
In the second to outer black/grey line there is purple blobbing all over?
How can you miss this?
does anyone else see it? I see Purple blobbing all over the second to darkets part.. Or is that Jpeg artifacting???
Hope it is the jpeging?
Does anybody else see the purple blotches?
Thanks for the Post
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151173\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I see that too. I can hardly believe that's jpg compression.  
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 06:10:35 PM by samuel_js » Logged
david o
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2007, 06:31:26 PM »
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Yes, I see that too. I can hardly believe that's jpg compression. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151195\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know what it is but it's definitely not worms. And the center rectangle is clean. I can zoom in and you can see how the image is dirty due to compression...
I think a good quality crop would help.
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2007, 08:02:56 PM »
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Quote
Is this your new shot or the older back..
In the second to outer black/grey line there is purple blobbing all over?
How can you miss this?
does anyone else see it? I see Purple blobbing all over the second to darkets part.. Or is that Jpeg artifacting???
Hope it is the jpeging?
Does anybody else see the purple blotches?
Thanks for the Post
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151173\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jon (JonTMiller2),

That does not appear like the purple blobbing syndrom (as Frank Doorhof had). It looks like same artifacts as I have with my ZD camera (although I will see better on my display at night when less reflections on display). Actually your test is very similar to mine. To add, a user of an earlier series ZD camera reported that he did not have that issue in same test as mine.

I am very interested to know the first two letters on the serial number on your ZD back. Will be in Hong Kong on business Friday thru Monday, and will speak to my agent there on this, thus very much appreciate if you can inform me of your serial's first letters. Please email me private if you like.

Has anyone else experienced similar on a Leaf or Phase or other back or even DSLR???

Much kind thanks.

Regards
Anders
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 08:04:36 PM by Anders_HK » Logged
Snook
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2007, 09:08:11 PM »
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Jon, I do not think it is a monitor problem as I checked in my studio today and saw the same thing.
It is the same as we saw from some who posted a shot of a Diner cafe type joint and it was all over the white back wall as well on his ZD and just about every ZD I have seen, so far.
I do not know if it is Jpeg or whatever but how odd it shows up on every ZD picture.
Frank had posted a picture of a model well back lit and the same Blotchy purple "stuff" was going on in his picture.
Whether you call worms or whatever there is definetly some purple blotchy "stuff" in these ZD pictures and every one I have seen.
I am not trying to knock the ZD , I am just stating an obvious observation that I can clearly see on most ZD pictures posted.
Could be a monitor problem on your side, maybe your blacks are so black with contrast you might not noticed it? But my monitors are calibrated often and I see it quite clearly.
Maybe some can post the RAW of the same file and see if it is a Jpeg problem.
In any case thanks for the information and post..:+}
Snook
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mcfoto
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« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2007, 02:33:34 AM »
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Hi
We tried putting the file into photo shop, it is so small it is the size ( image ) of a postage stamp. So we looked at it as shown on LL on a Quato monitor. We could not see purple blobbing at all. The outer square seems to have a purple cast all the way around. When the next inner square starts it is grey. It could be the paper or the way the light is hitting it.....etc. But in the end the image  is so small it is hard to judge. To me there are no purple blobs because they do fall into the next square. Go out and take pictures with the back. Also if you are using a Mac try a demo of Raw Developer so you can compare it to Photo Shop raw.
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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thsinar
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2007, 02:44:10 AM »
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Denis,

I think you did like me: you have downloaded the 4 kb "thumbnail of this image!

Download in the Menu ---> Save as and then it has the right size (22x17", 240 dpi, 61,2 MB's)

Thierry

Quote
Hi
We tried putting the file into photo shop, it is so small it is the size ( image ) of a postage stamp. So we looked at it as shown on LL on a Quato monitor. We could not see purple blobbing at all. The outer square seems to have a purple cast all the way around. When the next inner square starts it is grey. It could be the paper or the way the light is hitting it.....etc. But in the end the image  is so small it is hard to judge. To me there are no purple blobs because they do fall into the next square. Go out and take pictures with the back. Also if you are using a Mac try a demo of Raw Developer so you can compare it to Photo Shop raw.
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151246\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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bcroslin
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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2007, 07:33:14 AM »
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Can this be posted at a smaller rez but higher jpg setting? The jpg artifacting is so bad it's hard to tell what's going on. Maybe also do a full rez crop of a sliver of the bands.

And Snook - I'm starting to think when you hear the letters ZD you see blobs everywhere. Have you actually tested a new generation ZD back or are you just judging the back by what you've seen in this forum?
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JonTMiller2
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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2007, 07:37:26 AM »
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Crop of test image, saved jpg level 12.
Also, crop of lower right, DC color checker.
As requested by several.
Remember, some of the noise is from watercolor paper.
DC color checker is smoother.
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Snook
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2007, 07:41:51 AM »
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You could be right...:+}
But as posted by others I am not the only one to see the purpling...:+]
Also I would love for the ZD to pan out as I have a lot of Mamiya equipment and would love to see Mamiya Continue.
Why is it that these artifacts seem to be showing up on the ZD only?
No I have never even seen a ZD so cannot comment personally..:+}
Just going by what people are posting in forums and so far EVERY ZD post has some kind of purple artifacting going on!
Whether it is the Blobs,worms whatever you want to call it.. It is there!
Either that or my eyes have gone bad??
Whether you guys like it or not there is some purple cr@p going on there...
And it seems to be in every ZD post that. I have never seen it on any other camera MF or 35mm DSLR.
The closest thing I have seen to it is when some whites get blown out in some sky shot's on my 1DsMII and 5D. But not in the Blacks!!
Don't you think I would love to have a Half way decent MFDB for 7,000$... you bet you, But not until it proves to 100% useable.
What would I tell my client after shooting a days worth of pictures and there are Purple patches all over the Place??
Snook
PS. I hope as well as many others that it is just some kind of Compression problem posting here on the web...
These second test strips look better, But I would love to see the original Test card form the first posted image here in RAW or with out so much compression?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 07:45:25 AM by Snook » Logged
bcroslin
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2007, 08:24:05 AM »
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Don't you think I would love to have a Half way decent MFDB for 7,000$... you bet you, But not until it proves to 100% useable.
Problem is that you seem to only want to believe the ZD back is shit. I've been very honest in my postings about the back. The first back I had was bad - purple blobs, noise and lockups. The back that Mamiya replaced it with works perfectly. I've posted images from the new back in this forum.

Bottom line - GO TEST A BACK YOURSELF.
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2007, 08:26:27 AM »
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Remember, some of the noise is from watercolor paper.
DC color checker is smoother.
The color checker looks fine. Enjoy your back.
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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