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Author Topic: Blend if  (Read 12435 times)
bobrobert
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« on: November 10, 2007, 04:14:55 AM »
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Regarding the blend if sliders the information that I have read in the past is to move the end points on the top slider only to target the midtones Bruce Fraser in his book on sharpening he recommends moving the end points on both sliders Is this correct or are both methods Ok
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 06:38:06 AM »
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For my 2 cents - moving the sliders isn't about targeting the mid tones, it's about minimizing the clipping that can occur as the edge contrast is being increased.  Since this affects both light and dark I move both sliders - using Alt to split each one and create a transition.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 06:38:38 AM by Tim Gray » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 09:21:30 AM »
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You're both right depending on what you expect of the Blend If controls. Yes, using them on either end, with the option split for feather, targets the layer effect into the midtones (or where ever you decide NOT to apply the layer effect by virtue of their position. So you could think of this as targeting the midtones OR protecting either side of the tone curve.
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Andrew Rodney
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Chris_T
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2007, 08:34:15 AM »
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How best to apply Blend If depends on the layer it is applied to, and there can be lots of variations. For example, if Blend If is applied to an adjustment layer with a layer mask (i.e. selection) already, how you adjust the sliders can be dramatically different. Also, in addition to Gray, Blend If can be applied to a single rgb channel. The possibility is endless, and there is no single "best" way.

Unfortunately, this great feature is seldom addressed well in most of the PS books. Hint for those looking for a good PS book: flip through the chapters and index and see how many pages are dedicated to Blend If.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 08:37:43 AM by Chris_T » Logged
bjanes
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2007, 09:08:35 AM »
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Regarding the blend if sliders the information that I have read in the past is to move the end points on the top slider only to target the midtones Bruce Fraser in his book on sharpening he recommends moving the end points on both sliders Is this correct or are both methods Ok
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The blend if sliders are a bit complicated and I would suggest looking at this
[a href=\"http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=123]Blend if tutorial[/url] and working through the examples to gain a better understanding of the process.

Bill
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2007, 05:12:03 PM »
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Katrin Eismann has a full six page section on "Blend If", done with her usual clarity and thoroughness, in "Photoshop Masking and Compositing".
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Chris_T
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 08:08:06 AM »
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Eismann is one of the exceptions who wrote about Blend If. But she only wrote about the two sliders, and did not address the other options such as working with single channels, etc. She also skipped it in her more popular first book. Another book that spends some ink on the topic is the Artistry book by Barry Haynes.

None of the 500+ page books by Kelby, Evening, and the Geniuses would even mention it.
                                                                                                 
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Katrin Eismann has a full six page section on "Blend If", done with her usual clarity and thoroughness, in "Photoshop Masking and Compositing".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152022\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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digitaldog
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 08:23:11 AM »
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None of the 500+ page books by Kelby, Evening, and the Geniuses would even mention it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Geniuses? if you're referring to Pixel Geniuses, you're incorrect. Bruce Fraser mentioned it in great detail in his sharpening book as well as Real World Photoshop. I don't (it has nothing to do with color management). Jeff's book is about Camera Raw (and not out yet) so I doubt you'll see it mentioned, Seth doesn't have a book.
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 08:26:37 AM »
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Eismann is one of the exceptions who wrote about Blend If. But she only wrote about the two sliders, and did not address the other options such as working with single channels, etc. She also skipped it in her more popular first book. Another book that spends some ink on the topic is the Artistry book by Barry Haynes.

None of the 500+ page books by Kelby, Evening, and the Geniuses would even mention it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You'll also find material on "Blend If" in Donnie O'Quinn's "Photoshop 6 Shop Manual". It's dated but I hang on to that book for its sheer practical utility. It's a shame New Rider's stopped carrying this particular series, because the up-dates would have been really useful - clear, straight description of what happens item by item.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 08:31:02 AM »
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Geniuses? if you're referring to Pixel Geniuses, you're incorrect. Bruce Fraser mentioned it in great detail in his sharpening book as well as Real World Photoshop. I don't (it has nothing to do with color management). Jeff's book is about Camera Raw (and not out yet) so I doubt you'll see it mentioned, Seth doesn't have a book.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew, yes, Real World Photoshop deals with it - but mainly in a sharpening context. Of course it has other uses too. BTW, JEff's book is apparently now on the market - he announced on this website in another thread, with a reference to his article in PSN describing the printing process. If Amazon.com is true to its word, our copies should arrive any time now.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 08:34:44 AM »
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Andrew, yes, Real World Photoshop deals with it - but mainly in a sharpening context. Of course it has other uses too. BTW, JEff's book is apparently now on the market - he announced on this website in another thread, with a reference to his article in PSN describing the printing process. If Amazon.com is true to its word, our copies should arrive any time now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

When I get a copy, it's out <g>.

Point is, its unlikely Jeff, a Pixel Genius will discuss Blend If in an ACR book. Point is, Bruce discussed it, maybe not to Chris's satisfaction but it was discussed.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 08:35:36 AM by digitaldog » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 08:46:15 AM »
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When I get a copy, it's out <g>.

Point is, its unlikely Jeff, a Pixel Genius will discuss Blend If in an ACR book. Point is, Bruce discussed it, maybe not to Chris's satisfaction but it was discussed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152419\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're right - it's not an ACR issue.

Yup - as I mentioned, it was discussed in Real World Photoshop - I was just making the point that there is more to be said about it. Katrin covered much of the other essentials very well. But I think Chris has a point - it's one of those nooks and crannies in Photoshop that deserves even a yet more fulsome treatment, all gathered together in one place, with examples, yada, yada.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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bjanes
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 02:19:27 PM »
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Geniuses? if you're referring to Pixel Geniuses, you're incorrect. Bruce Fraser mentioned it in great detail in his sharpening book as well as Real World Photoshop. I don't (it has nothing to do with color management). Jeff's book is about Camera Raw (and not out yet) so I doubt you'll see it mentioned, Seth doesn't have a book.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, Bruce used the BLEND IF sliders in his sharpening work flow, and mentioned the same in Real World Photoshop PS2, but really does not discuss it for general editing in any detail. When I was reading Dan Margulis's Photoshop LAB book where he uses blending and blend if rather extensively, I sought further help in the Real World PSCS2 book and did not find it that helpful. I found the tutorial on the Retouching web site most helpful.
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 04:50:57 PM »
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There is also a very good example by Michael Reichmann using the blend if sliders and illustrated by screenshots. It was in connection with using the overlay, multiply functions with gaussian blur layers. Can't seem to find it at the moment, but it will still be there somewhere - an excellent article.
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2007, 07:23:29 PM »
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There is also a very good example by Michael Reichmann using the blend if sliders and illustrated by screenshots. It was in connection with using the overlay, multiply functions with gaussian blur layers. Can't seem to find it at the moment, but it will still be there somewhere - an excellent article.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I believe you are referring to the 2004 article by Glen Mitchell here: [a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/glow.shtml]Blend If[/url]
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 08:03:12 AM »
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That's exactly what I meant to say. Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth.

Blend If has many features and not intuitive. It is one of those tools that many are unaware of. But those who learn about it often wonder how they ever live without it.

Since Blend If is rather complicated to explain well in full detail for different applications, perhaps that's why most of the PS authors dedcide to leave it out. Instead, every book would devote chapters on setting the preferences, etc., topics that are already beaten to death. These authors seem to be more interested in bulking up their books with these mundane topics than offering something special on topics rarely covered well to set themselves apart.

Yes, there are a few quite well written online tutorials on Blend If. That's how I learned about it. And yes, Margulis also covers it well (in a rather scattered manner). But I hesitated to bring his name up in fear of starting another mud flinging.

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But I think Chris has a point - it's one of those nooks and crannies in Photoshop that deserves even a yet more fulsome treatment, all gathered together in one place, with examples, yada, yada.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152420\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 08:16:20 AM »
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I believe you are referring to the 2004 article by Glen Mitchell here: Blend If
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That's exactly what I meant to say. Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth.

Blend If has many features and not intuitive. It is one of those tools that many are unaware of. But those who learn about it often wonder how they ever live without it.

OK, I just looked over Glen's tutorial and I don't see where he says anything with respect to Blend If that's much different from what others have (how it uses tonality and splits to affect what does or doesn't get applied by the underlying layers). The overall concept seems straightforward. What am I missing? How is what Glen did with Blend If with the blur different from what Bruce did with Blend If with sharpening?
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 08:33:33 AM »
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OK, I just looked over Glen's tutorial and I don't see where he says anything with respect to Blend If that's much different from what others have (how it uses tonality and splits to affect what does or doesn't get applied by the underlying layers). The overall concept seems straightforward. What am I missing? How is what Glen did with Blend If with the blur different from what Bruce did with Blend If with sharpening?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152697\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew, not much different. I was just being helpful pointing to the specific article Chris had difficulty finding. Bruce and Glenn cover similar territory. I've spent a bit of time looking into what a number of authors say about "Blend IF", and I come away with the observation that all of them essentially deal with those two sliders at the bottom of the Layer Styles dialog box. But that dialog box has a lot more stuff in it, and I think Chris has a point that it's hard to find a succinct exposition of the full potential of these options.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 10:36:01 AM »
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Bruce and Glenn cover similar territory.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152707\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well, of course, that's the way Glenn operates...take the work of others and regurgitate and claim it as his own. That's his MO. And, in some cases, the phraseology was so close as to be near plagiarism.

In fact, I can't recall Glenn EVER writing about a concept that was truely his own...(not sure he ever had one)
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 02:05:16 PM »
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Well, of course, that's the way Glenn operates...take the work of others and regurgitate and claim it as his own. That's his MO. And, in some cases, the phraseology was so close as to be near plagiarism.

In fact, I can't recall Glenn EVER writing about a concept that was truely his own...(not sure he ever had one)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Jeff - thanks for bringing that to surface - I wasn't aware of it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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