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Author Topic: aRGB Monitor prices  (Read 22060 times)
Craig Murphy
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« on: November 18, 2007, 11:32:03 AM »
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Two models that are supposed to display the colors in aRGB.  The LaCie 526 and the Eizo ColorEdge CG221.  The Lacie is $2100 w/ the blue eye colorimeter and the Eizo is $5000.   Could someone explain to me if they see anything here that would justify a $3000 difference?

The major specs that I see are:
                 
Lacie  526                                        

Panel -           H-ISP A-TW POL                          
Viewing Angle-     178 deg                                
Contrast-            800:1                                  
Response time-    16ms                                  
Pixel pitch-           287                                    
Max Res-        1920x1200                            
Luminance-       400 cd/m2
Warranty - 3yrs                
                                                                     
Eizo CCg221

Panel -                  TFT
View Angle -        170deg
Contrast -            400:1
Response Time -  30ms
Pixel Pitch -           .249
Max Res -             1920x1200
Luminance -        Eizo refers to Brightness of 200cd max and recommends 100cd
Warranty -  5 yrs

Yes the Eizo has other things like the auto brightness function, display mode functions but when you are sitting down and viewing the monitor I'm having a hard time seeing why I would spend $3000 more on one over the other.   Can someone enlighten me?  Is there anything in the specs that really increased the value of the Eizo over the LaCie by that much?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 11:40:22 AM by Craig Murphy » Logged

CMurph
digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2007, 11:48:50 AM »
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Based on my experiences and more importantly, the results of thorough scientific testing by Karl Lang and his presentation at PPE on the subject, the unit to get is the NEC 2690 driven with SpectraView II software. Yes, 93% of Adobe RGB isn't the entire enchilada but at this price point and performance, its a real winner.

As for your question about price, well we are waiting on Eizo to get off the mat and send Karl units for testing so we can find out if this big, big price differences is justified or not. For whatever reason, they (Eizo) despite requests from Karl and Chris Murphy to have units sent for the PPE seminar and further testing were not fulfilled. We'd all benefit if some pressure were put on them to have an outside, independent test done on their products.
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Andrew Rodney
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Kalin Wilson
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2007, 12:02:12 PM »
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If you're interested in the NEC 2690 check provantage.com. They have a non-advertised special. I just bought one from them. Setting it up soon!
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Craig Murphy
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2007, 12:16:05 PM »
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Thanks for the info.  It was just such a tremendous price difference I had to ask the question.   Will check out the NEC.
And thanks Andrew for sending the profile for the new canvas I am using back to me so quickly.
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Jeff Kott
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2007, 05:15:37 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog,Nov 18 2007, 10:48 AM
Based on my experiences and more importantly, the results of thorough scientific testing by Karl Lang and his presentation at PPE on the subject, the unit to get is the NEC 2690 driven with SpectraView II software.

I assume the NEC 2190UXi and 2490UXi have the same image quality as the NEC 2690. Is this correct?

I like to work with two monitors, one 21 inch for just the image and a second monitor just for the image editor pallets. Hence my interest in the NEC 2190.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2007, 05:20:12 PM »
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I assume the NEC 2190UXi and 2490UXi have the same image quality as the NEC 2690. Is this correct?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153970\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Should be. I don't know much about the 2190, I don't recall Karl testing it. The 2490 and 2190 are sRGB displays, his report on the 2490 was actually a tad better than the 2690, mostly due to the use of a colorimeter on a wide gamut unit where the filter set expects a more sRGB response. The 2690 is wide gamut. Its a larger unit too (26 inches versus 24). I expect the 2190 is just a bit smaller and should preform as well as the 2490 cost a bit less. But the key to getting the great results Karl reported were using the NEC SpectraView II software to drive it.
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Andrew Rodney
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hcubell
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2007, 11:14:32 PM »
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But the key to getting the great results Karl reported were using the NEC SpectraView II software to drive it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew, what settings do you use in the Spectraview II software for White Point, Intensity and Gamma?

Thanks.
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tived
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 05:49:39 AM »
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I thought the Lacie was a rebadge NEC ? and I doubt it is 100%aRGB where the EIZO IS 100%+ aRGB, any we do pay for those last percentages :-)

I do agree with Andrew, that the NEC is a good compromise 2690, that is! However, NEC also makes a 100% aRGB, Reference 21, there might be a newer one, again in the same price range as the EIZO.

Henrik
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papa v2.0
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2007, 06:47:06 AM »
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has Karl Lang have a website so I can see what type of scientific test he does?

Thanks
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digitaldog
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 08:48:23 AM »
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Andrew, what settings do you use in the Spectraview II software for White Point, Intensity and Gamma?

Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154046\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

150cd/m2, custom white using an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer (rest of calibration using a EyeOne Display), gamma 2.2.
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2007, 08:49:12 AM »
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has Karl Lang have a website so I can see what type of scientific test he does?

Thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not up yet. It will be at lumita.com/
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Andrew Rodney
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hcubell
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2007, 02:44:27 PM »
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150cd/m2, custom white using an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer (rest of calibration using a EyeOne Display), gamma 2.2.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154104\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Andrew. I have been using 120cd/m2 with my 2690.  I will try 150cd/m2; how did you settle on that level?
Best.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2007, 02:50:06 PM »
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Thanks, Andrew. I have been using 120cd/m2 with my 2690.  I will try 150cd/m2; how did you settle on that level?
Best.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154193\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It was actually recommended to me by NEC. 120 (which is what I'd usually work towards) is at the very lowest end of the scale this unit, at least new can hit, so they suggested a bit higher so there's room to go lower if necessary in the calibration.
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Andrew Rodney
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Schwenny
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2007, 04:52:28 PM »
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So does anybody know what's the difference is with the Spectraview II and the software we get in Europe? I was at a photo trade show here in Sweden yesterday and the guy at NEC didn't know what the difference was. He asked another guy and he claimed that the calibration software we get in Europe was easier to use... So do you think I can use the software that is included or should I buy the US software?

Another question I have is about how you say you get to 150 cd/m2, you use a EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer, would my EyeOne Photo work for that? Why do you use a different EyeOne for the rest of the calibration?

Håkan


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It was actually recommended to me by NEC. 120 (which is what I'd usually work towards) is at the very lowest end of the scale this unit, at least new can hit, so they suggested a bit higher so there's room to go lower if necessary in the calibration.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154194\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2007, 04:59:21 PM »
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So does anybody know what's the difference is with the Spectraview II and the software we get in Europe?

The stuff in Europe is totally different, basically BasiCColor, not the stuff we're referring to, developed by NEC.

Quote
Another question I have is about how you say you get to 150 cd/m2, you use a EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer, would my EyeOne Photo work for that? Why do you use a different EyeOne for the rest of the calibration?

You can use an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer or an EyeOne Display. I'm using both on the wide gamut (the Spectrophotometer just to make a custom target for white point, then the Colorimeter for all subsequent calibration and profiling). I don't think you can do this with the European stuff, not sure. I haven't looked at BasICColor in awhile. And I don't now if its identical to the OEM version you chaps have.
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Andrew Rodney
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Schwenny
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2007, 05:02:29 PM »
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So I should probably buy the US software online to get the best results? Or it might not matter?

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The stuff in Europe is totally different, basically BasiCColor, not the stuff we're referring to, developed by NEC.
You can use an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer or an EyeOne Display. I'm using both on the wide gamut (the Spectrophotometer just to make a custom target for white point, then the Colorimeter for all subsequent calibration and profiling). I don't think you can do this with the European stuff, not sure. I haven't looked at BasICColor in awhile. And I don't now if its identical to the OEM version you chaps have.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Schwenny
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2007, 05:05:44 PM »
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My EyeOne Photo is a Spectrophotometer? Or am I'm wrong?

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The stuff in Europe is totally different, basically BasiCColor, not the stuff we're referring to, developed by NEC.
You can use an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer or an EyeOne Display. I'm using both on the wide gamut (the Spectrophotometer just to make a custom target for white point, then the Colorimeter for all subsequent calibration and profiling). I don't think you can do this with the European stuff, not sure. I haven't looked at BasICColor in awhile. And I don't now if its identical to the OEM version you chaps have.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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digitaldog
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2007, 05:12:12 PM »
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So I should probably buy the US software online to get the best results? Or it might not matter?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd say, if you can get the NEC software (SpectraView II), get that!

There are several EyeOne products. EyeOne Pro IS a Spectrophotometer. EyeOne Display is a Colorimeter. IF you can build printer profiles, you have a Spectrophotometer.

A colorimeter is a better device for display calibration and profiling due to its ability to handle very dark emissive measurements. The problem is, they have filter sets that are (ideally) mated for a display type or at the very least, a general assumption of the display. Most are expecting sRGB. So, with a wide gamut display, you'll get improved white point measurements with a Spectrophotometer, you'll get less than ideal dark measurements. The NEC software allows (via a clever trick) to use both. Note that Karl Lang's testing for PPE, using a Colorimeter with filters expecting sRGB, on a wide gamut (2690), the actual measurements were off about 500K which isn't unacceptable but, its off.

If you look at the really nice NEC very wide gamut LED device, NEC did the best thing, they OEM'ed a colorimeter from X-Rite with special filters for their device.
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Andrew Rodney
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Craig Murphy
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2007, 09:39:13 AM »
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I am a little confused here.  When you buy the 2690 with SpectraView II it comes with its own special colorimeter that solves the problem of a colorimeter expecting to read an sRGB monitor.  Correct?
Never mind.  I read now that it  "comes bundled with color calibration software and a co-branded NEC/Gretag Macbeth colorimeter".
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:43:59 AM by Craig Murphy » Logged

CMurph
digitaldog
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2007, 10:09:03 AM »
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I am a little confused here.  When you buy the 2690 with SpectraView II it comes with its own special colorimeter that solves the problem of a colorimeter expecting to read an sRGB monitor.  Correct?
Never mind.  I read now that it  "comes bundled with color calibration software and a co-branded NEC/Gretag Macbeth colorimeter".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154393\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The only special mated colorimeter I know of is when NEC sells the software with their LED Wide Gamut unit. The other's are EyeOne Display-2's.
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Andrew Rodney
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