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Author Topic: Hahnemuhle Bamboo? Anyone tried it?  (Read 14850 times)
dkeyes
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2007, 01:11:26 AM »
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It must be a nice paper. But in my opinion the environmental benefits of this paper do not reach further than the extra euros per sheet that go to HM's own ecological inititiative, Green Rooster (Rooster = Hahn) with the proposed project in Africa that isn't related to the bamboo pulp as far as I can see. There's no inherent relation between bamboo and environmental safety in general. No words on HM's site where the bamboo pulp has its origin. I do not claim that HM isn't a responsible company on environmental aspects but so far I see this more as an PR project. I love to see some evidence that bamboo pulp will make this world a better place but so far I have little indication it does. There's a lot more cotton than bamboo going through HM's mill by the way, opinions differ on what is a safer paper, from certified wood forests or from cotton fields.

Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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I've worked in the graphic desing industry for 20 years and have had many papers made for print projects. I can tell you bamboo is much better than most virgin fibers. First, it's likely to be grown without any pesticides, etc. Usually isn't bleached and grows fast in smaller plots of land, more densely planted. (It is a grass) Has longer fibers than paper so it's stronger and more recyclable (can be recycled more times before fiber gets too short to use). Generally takes less energy to produce than wood or cotton without much waste in the process. (you can use most of the plant, the rest is mulch)

Cotton is usually high in pesticides/herbicides. Takes more energy to produce and is bleached to make it white. Also takes alot of land to grow.

Wood pulp takes more energy with more waste in the process, using bleach to whiten it and disrupts many natural habitats in the process. Making paper is probably the worst use of a tree in my opinion, as there are many better options out there.

Glad to see the fine art industry is getting smarter about resources. Bamboo, Kenaf (similar to bamboo, and hemp are all great sources of paper fiber and naturally whiter than wood.

OK, probably more than anyone wanted to know but couldn't help myself.

- Doug
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2007, 03:07:09 AM »
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I've worked in the graphic desing industry for 20 years and have had many papers made for print projects. I can tell you bamboo is much better than most virgin fibers. First, it's likely to be grown without any pesticides, etc. Usually isn't bleached and grows fast in smaller plots of land, more densely planted. (It is a grass) Has longer fibers than paper so it's stronger and more recyclable (can be recycled more times before fiber gets too short to use). Generally takes less energy to produce than wood or cotton without much waste in the process. (you can use most of the plant, the rest is mulch)

Cotton is usually high in pesticides/herbicides. Takes more energy to produce and is bleached to make it white. Also takes alot of land to grow.

Wood pulp takes more energy with more waste in the process, using bleach to whiten it and disrupts many natural habitats in the process. Making paper is probably the worst use of a tree in my opinion, as there are many better options out there.

Glad to see the fine art industry is getting smarter about resources. Bamboo, Kenaf (similar to bamboo, and hemp are all great sources of paper fiber and naturally whiter than wood.

OK, probably more than anyone wanted to know but couldn't help myself.

- Doug
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Doug,

I read similar comments every time I mention my doubts but I never see a reference where bamboo is compared with numbers on aspects like you mention. Right now about 3% of paper pulp comes from bamboo sources. Any source of pulp is used as the demand in China etc for pulp increases dramatically. But that percentage stays. Bamboo isn't replacing another source and there is no news of bamboo plantations created for paper pulp production. There are some reports though about old bamboo forest plundered like there's more forest plundered in S.E. Asia. What I did read about the energy that goes into the pulp production of different pulp sources is that there's little difference.

True it grows fast, the variety of bamboo delivers all kinds of products and it looks fantastic. But you have to cut a lot of bamboo to get the equivalent in usable pulp that a production tree delivers. That's it. No further magic.

[a href=\"http://www.tappsa.co.za/archive2/APPW_2004/Title2004/The_refining_of_non-wood/the_refining_of_non-wood.html]http://www.tappsa.co.za/archive2/APPW_2004...f_non-wood.html[/url]

http://www.globalhemp.com/Archives/Magazin...t_friendly.html

There's more to read as I have done after the enthusiasts embraced Hahnemuhle's Bamboo. Just look what HM tells about its bamboo sources, certification of pulp source plantations, etc. Nada. I bet they can get better ecological documents on the table for their wood pulp (as required in the EU) than for the bamboo pulp. The main pulp source of HM is wood, then cotton (and that is bad), then bamboo.  I guess it isn't 3% of their production. There will be other alpha fiber sources too I guess.

I like to be green in a realistic way.


Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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jschone
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2007, 04:18:40 PM »
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Ernst, but the fact of the matter is that there is a change going on. Of course HM Bamboo is not green in a realistic way, this is still pure marketing. What is important though that this creates a shift of mind in the industry, the next one will follow. HM seems to have changed their marketing strategy (in the last 2 years) from "a traditional paper maker" to "an innovative paper maker" and I must say I think they made the right decision. And yes, maybe the coating of the paper is in the end made at Sihl, but who cares? Sihl is not promoting green papers, is it?! HM is taking the marketing expense, Sihl produces.

rgrds, Jochem


Ernst Dinkla,Dec 14 2007, 04:07 AM]
Doug,

I read similar comments every time I mention my doubts but I never see a reference where bamboo is compared with numbers on aspects like you mention. Right now about 3% of paper pulp comes from bamboo sources. Any source of pulp is used as the demand in China etc for pulp increases dramatically. But that percentage stays. Bamboo isn't replacing another source and there is no news of bamboo plantations created for paper pulp production. There are some reports though about old bamboo forest plundered like there's more forest plundered in S.E. Asia. What I did read about the energy that goes into the pulp production of different pulp sources is that there's little difference.

True it grows fast, the variety of bamboo delivers all kinds of products and it looks fantastic. But you have to cut a lot of bamboo to get the equivalent in usable pulp that a production tree delivers. That's it. No further magic.

http://www.tappsa.co.za/archive2/APPW_2004...f_non-wood.html

http://www.globalhemp.com/Archives/Magazin...t_friendly.html

There's more to read as I have done after the enthusiasts embraced Hahnemuhle's Bamboo. Just look what HM tells about its bamboo sources, certification of pulp source plantations, etc. Nada. I bet they can get better ecological documents on the table for their wood pulp (as required in the EU) than for the bamboo pulp. The main pulp source of HM is wood, then cotton (and that is bad), then bamboo.  I guess it isn't 3% of their production. There will be other alpha fiber sources too I guess.

I like to be green in a realistic way.
Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2007, 05:32:26 AM »
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Quote from: jschone,Dec 15 2007, 12:18 AM

Ernst, but the fact of the matter is that there is a change going on. Of course HM Bamboo is not green in a realistic way, this is still pure marketing. What is important though that this creates a shift of mind in the industry, the next one will follow. HM seems to have changed their marketing strategy (in the last 2 years) from "a traditional paper maker" to "an innovative paper maker" and I must say I think they made the right decision. And yes, maybe the coating of the paper is in the end made at Sihl, but who cares? Sihl is not promoting green papers, is it?! HM is taking the marketing expense, Sihl produces.

rgrds, Jochem

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]

Right this Bamboo and much more bamboo products like the fabric are very PR green. Bamboo used locally for building etc is far more green, at least greener than alternatives. You can still use the Bamboo for printing it probably isn't worse than cotton but it has to be seen whether it is greener than pulp from production forests in Scandinavia where in very controlled plants the pulp is produced.

HM has been a very innovative, traditional paper making mill since they started to produce inkjet coated paper about 12 years ago for the Iris and soon after that for the pizo drop on demand machines like the Epson. Lyson could have awakened them. Before that it was a very traditional somewhat sleepy art paper manufacturer, part of a company that was in specialty papers. The cheaper alternative to Arches. In competition with similar factories here like Fabriano, Lana, Van Gelder. Nothing exiting, a higher end price for a ton of pulp than an offset paper manufacturer would get. We ordered a semi Velin Arches 100% cotton from a Dutch mill at that time at half the price for silkscreen printing. It is much more difficult to do the same now and get a good inkjet coating on top. None of the other manufacturers like Arches, Lana has made that change to inkjet art papers as good as HM. This green image is just a new marketing guy or the wife of the director that has some time idle. Of course their customers, artists etc also are greener than Joe six pack. Hahnemuhle has no forests and buys pulp on the market like so many smaller mills do.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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bigbrotherbob33
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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2009, 03:12:43 PM »
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Thanks guys.  I ended up getting some from Booksmart Studio earlier this month.  I wish I waited because they are having a sale right now, %10 off everything.  It is one of my primary papers now and I usually buy it in bulk, like 4 boxes at a time.  I use it mostly on on giclees or art reproductions, just to get that 3rd dimension! hahaha

But seriously folks, for those other lovers of the Hahnemuhle Bamboo out there I have found if you buy a 13x19 size box called Anniversary Edition that come with a free leather box!  and by the way John Hollenberg booksmart offers the profile free now!  Thanks again guys!
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Bob J.
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2009, 03:26:01 PM »
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Hahnemuhle Bamboo out there I have found if you buy a 13x19 size box called Anniversary Edition that come with a free leather box!

Yes - this is a really good deal. You basically get a Pratt leather folio box for free. Hahnemuhle also offers PhotoRag Baryta and standard PhotoRag in these anniversary boxes. They also come with half a dozen or so of the Hahnemuhle certificates of authenticity and a spanking pair of white cotton gloves  

Not sure how long these are going to be available as they are apparently limited to celebrate Hahnemuhle's anniversary. But its a great way to get a free leather folio!
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