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Author Topic: Cibachrome from digital file  (Read 50967 times)
Mike W
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« on: November 30, 2007, 11:57:14 AM »
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Hi folks,

Is it possible to get a cibachrome (or ilfochrome) from a digital file?
Is this technically dificult or impossible? Any labs that offer this service?

thanks
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tsjanik
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 02:16:14 PM »
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Hi folks,

Is it possible to get a cibachrome (or ilfochrome) from a digital file?
Is this technically dificult or impossible? Any labs that offer this service?

thanks
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Here's one; Cibachrome on a lightjet.  I haven't tried it; it is expensive.

[a href=\"http://www.jwphotolabs.com/pricelist.html]http://www.jwphotolabs.com/pricelist.html[/url]
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Wolfman
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 11:06:52 PM »
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Try: http://www.weldoncolorlab.com/ he is excellent.
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Mike W
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 01:36:23 AM »
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So I guess it's possible?

It's strange since noone seems to advertise this interesting possibility, including the sites mentioned...
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D White
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Don White


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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 10:55:52 AM »
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Cibachromes fade.
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Dr D White DDS BSc
Mike W
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2007, 02:26:42 PM »
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Would you care  to elaborate?

I don't care if the prints fade, since I'll sell 'm. After that It's not my problem.
I do wonder why and how fast they fade (for my own benefit)

enlighten me :-)
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2007, 04:17:03 PM »
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not going to touch that one...
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Bill Caulfeild-Browne
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2007, 06:36:54 PM »
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I made Cibachromes for many, many years before I went digital in 2001. While most of these were sold at exhibitions, I also kept several dozen, and they have no discernible fading. Some of them are over 30 years old.

Now, they were matted with archival mats and protected under UV resistant glass, not hung in sunshine. They still "glow" with that deep Ciba colour.

Bill
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KenS
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 07:19:07 AM »
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I made Cibachromes for many, many years before I went digital in 2001. While most of these were sold at exhibitions, I also kept several dozen, and they have no discernible fading. Some of them are over 30 years old.

Now, they were matted with archival mats and protected under UV resistant glass, not hung in sunshine. They still "glow" with that deep Ciba colour.

Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157571\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I totally agree.  Most of my Ciba's aren't even under glass (but not in direct sunlight).  I have never noticed any fading.  I now print digitally and what I miss most is the great mirror like finish and glow of a Cibachrome.
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gr82bart
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2007, 06:57:53 PM »
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I use to make a lot of Cibachromes too when I was in university. I still have many of them and I haven't noticed any fading. In fact recently I made a 'digital' Cibachrome from a scanned transparency and compared to the same image on a wet darkroom printed Cibachrome I made in my first year of university, it did not fade one bit. I wish I could scan the image in, but it's 16x20 size.

Anyway to respond to the original poster, Bob Carnie from Elevator Digital in Toronto is considered Canada's finest master printer. He prints for several top commercial and art photographers from around the world. He does Ilfochromes on his Lambda printer from digital files.

http://elevatordigital.ca/labhome.html

Regards, Art.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 07:02:13 PM by gr82bart » Logged

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Mike W
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 02:59:43 AM »
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Aha, so Lambda printers can handle Ilfochrome?
I'll see if there are Lambda equiped printers around and see if they can print Ilfo...

Thanks for the info, the Toronto-adress I can't use since I'm on the wrong continent :-)


thanks

Mike
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tsjanik
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2007, 08:02:25 PM »
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I totally agree.  Most of my Ciba's aren't even under glass (but not in direct sunlight).  I have never noticed any fading.  I now print digitally and what I miss most is the great mirror like finish and glow of a Cibachrome.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157641\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree, I have a 35-year-old Cibacrome that gets direct sunlight every  afternoon and exhibits no fading.  The unique aspect of the process is that the paper contains stable dyes that were destroyed, not formed, during processing. Nevertheless, I use an Epson nowadays.
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D White
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2007, 10:05:52 PM »
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I ran an extensive wet darkroom for over 20 years before going into digital in 2001, (first with scanning and printing on an original Epson 7500). During my darkroom days I printed a lot of Ciba, with masking.

My large prints were under glass in my professional office under halogen track lighting, and in about four years you could take the matte off and see extensive fading. I reprinted many of these later with Epson 7600/7800 and was vastly more pleased with the results. These Epson prints continue to be under the halogen lighting with no hint of fading. My C-prints had also faded significantly under this same lighting.

The Wilhelm aging tests do indicate about 22 years for Ciba compared to 60-200 years for the ink jets. Further, there was an accelerated aging phenomenon with Ciba's under strong lighting which increased the rate by about four times.

Thus in real world display, Cibas do fade and I will be long dead before my ink jets fade.

My point is why bother with an expensive process to print on an inferior product that has significant flaws in it's color response. Digital printing on Fuji Crystal Archive would look better and last longer and likely be less costly and easier to get. I am surprised that Ciba is even still available.
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 03:22:31 AM »
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I did an extensive search on the net for printers and only found 3-4 in the US. I've used Hance in Arizona for mounting my Fuji Supergloss prints (like Cibas), they also print digital Cibachromes (Ilfochromes) and with Fuji Crystal Archive. I think the Fuji gloss is also just like the Ciba/Ilfochromes.
I'm not sure which paper is more stable, my guess is the Fuji Crystal.

Heres the list of printers that do either or both papers.
http://www.hancepartners.com
http://www.jwphotolabs.com
http://www.weldoncolorlab.com/
http://www.chromatics.com

- Doug
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gr82bart
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 07:00:58 PM »
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There's more than those listed in NYC alone.

Regards, Art.
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Hieu
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2009, 03:36:08 PM »
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There is a lab in Adelaide, Australia, that can get a digital file, to cibachrome paper. The results are stunning, and the prices are quite competitive (considering the process involves manual hand printing).

I see alot of people spending thousands of dollars on a top end digital camera, (heck the new Leica M9 is about $10 000 AUS!), and only to print their photos on amateur bubble jet printers or at automated photo labs. It makes sense to use these guys (or something similar if you can find it elsewhere), especially considering you can just email them the files, and they can print them by order.

Check them out at: http://www.chromacolour.com.au/
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DanielStone
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2009, 12:15:20 AM »
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I've never had a cibachrome made from any of my personal film, but I've seen them ,and when properly done (masking is usually needed), they're STUNNING!!!!

I used to work for a prominent camera store here in LA, and I sold some 4x5 FP4+ to the guy from Lab Ciba. I asked him if he could show an example some time of an ilfochrome, since I'd never seen one in person up until that point, he actually had a test print he was running to a client after buying the film(for making masks). He went out to his car, retrieved the print (was a pano of bamboo, big chutes, and was about 2.5'x5'. I believe he said it was from a 4x10 Velvia transparency. All I can say though, is, even with the crappy store lighting that I saw it in, it had a glow that I've never seen again since that moment. Every little nick in the wood was in super sharp detail, and I looked at this print from like 9" away. I examined this thing close, believe me .

Even if the rating is 29 years( I wouldn't display it). I'd rather have that print mounted to aluminum, and in an archival solander box or flat file.

different strokes for different folks, but I've seen some 8x10 transparencies(not mine) when picking up my E-6 from the lab, and they're glorious!!!!!

I have an IPF5100, and according to the ratings tests, my printer with good paper should last 100-200 years in proper dark storage.

I'm not a "show it off" person, I prefer to store in a dark, cool place where I can enjoy it, without worrying about damage from excessive exposure to dust, bad air, etc....

-Dan
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tim wolcott
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 08:31:00 PM »
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Quote from: Mike W
Hi folks,

Is it possible to get a cibachrome (or ilfochrome) from a digital file?
Is this technically dificult or impossible? Any labs that offer this service?

thanks
Now why would anyone want to have a toxic based, heavy metal and very fadeable print made this way.  I made the first pigment photograph with inkjet and was one of the founders of Evercolor.  I can't believe anyone would be considering making a photograph this way when we have a the inkjet pigment printing process.  There is no way in hell that a cibachrome could and would look better than a pigment photograph.  

Lets just poison our water system a little more for no reason at all.  Christ wake up and smell the coffee Misses Bueller.  

If you properly understand the way a photograph should be displayed than you would not ask such a question!!!!!!!!!!!!  Tim
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 09:54:20 PM »
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Quote from: Photoguydon
Cibachromes fade.

Do they EVER.  

I have several large prints.  Those that lived (framed, behind glass) in bright locations for a few years are toast.
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DanielStone
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2009, 12:27:53 AM »
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funny how people are like "film is damaging to the environment, lets kill it" and "long live computers!"

watch ed burtynsky's film "manufactured landscapes" and it will hopefully change your mind on that fact. besides, you can pretty much neutralize the ilfochrome chem's when you poor them down the drain. I don't believe that labs do that though, they might have to have it carted off site by a chemical-disposal company.

manufacturing microchips is a VERY DIRTY process, with lots of heavy metals as a side-effect. just like shooting guns at a firing range, too much lead in the ground kills the animals. that's why we can't use lead bullets anymore, just copper jacketed HP's .

not trying to argue, but I do wish that people would realize that the best way to test the archivability of somethings is to just wait. we now know that platinum prints made in the 1890s are just fine when stored properly.

also, if people were to properly light their framed prints, they would know that putting ANY print on a wall that gets raw window sunlight will fade very quickly. obviously some processes faster than others, but nothings perfect...

just my .02c

-Dan
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