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Author Topic: PhotoKit Sharpening in PS but printing in LR  (Read 4559 times)
budjames
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« on: December 03, 2007, 05:39:42 AM »
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I just read the Digital Dog's DNG article on his web site. He extols the virtues of the LR print module. I've been using flattened TIFs of my final images (adjusted in PS CS3 and output sharpened with PhotoKit) to print to my Epson R2400 using ImagePrint 7.0 RIP. The results are excellent, but the extra steps are time consuming.

I love LR's workflow and RAW conversion capabilities. However, it seems that LR's weakness is with output sharpening before making prints.

Has anyone figured out a workflow that allows you to work within LR, output sharpen inside PS with PK and then return to the sharpened output file to LR to print with the excellent features of the LR print module?

I am also interested to hear about the experiences of others comparing prints made with ImagePrint 7.0 and those made with the LR print module.

Jeff Schewe, if you are reading this, if PhotoKit Sharpener was available inside LR, then I would hardly ever need to go to PS.

Thanks.

Bud James
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 05:41:57 AM by budjames » Logged

Bud James
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madmanchan
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 08:50:50 AM »
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Has anyone figured out a workflow that allows you to work within LR, output sharpen inside PS with PK and then return to the sharpened output file to LR to print with the excellent features of the LR print module?

Sure. I select my raw file in LR and do Ctrl-E (Edit in Photoshop). I do output sharpening in PS and save the file. Then I go back to LR and print the file.
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budjames
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 10:25:24 AM »
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Sure. I select my raw file in LR and do Ctrl-E (Edit in Photoshop). I do output sharpening in PS and save the file. Then I go back to LR and print the file.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157893\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you then printing the new file created in PS from within LR or are your printing from the RAW file?

Thanks.

Bud James
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Bud James
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CatOne
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 10:33:33 AM »
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Are you then printing the new file created in PS from within LR or are your printing from the RAW file?

Thanks.

Bud James
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157923\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Obviously he's printing the file saved from PS.  It would make no sense to print from the RAW file; as it doesn't contain the sharpening or any adjustments made in Photoshop!
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Martin Ocando
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 11:13:44 AM »
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My workflow (standard images, no special effects or editing needed):

1.- Import in LR
2.- Select no sharpen, no noise reduction preset
3.- White Balance
4.- Crop
5.- Tone balance (recovery, blacks, curves, clarity, etc.)
6.- Export to CS3 as ZIP compressed TIFF
7.- Pass noiseware if needed
8.- Photokit Capture sharpen -> flatten
9.- Decide paper type and print size
10.- Soft proof using printer profile and duplicate image. Decide rendering intent. Adjust tonalities as needed.
11.- Calculate DPI
12.- Output sharpen for paper size/dpi selected
13.- Flatten everything and save TIFF
14.- Print from LR using printer profile.

Time consuming, yes, but guarantees perfect results 100% of the time. No ink/paper waste whatsoever.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 01:48:35 PM by mocando » Logged

Martin Ocando
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budjames
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 05:17:06 AM »
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Obviously he's printing the file saved from PS.  It would make no sense to print from the RAW file; as it doesn't contain the sharpening or any adjustments made in Photoshop!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for the clarification, but not for the attitude.
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Bud James
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budjames
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 05:19:50 AM »
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Mocando,

Thanks for the workflow steps.

I have a question. When you have the final output TIF back in LR, do you keep it with the original RAW file, use stacks or do you have a separate folder in LR for final output files?

Thanks again for sharing.

Bud James
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Bud James
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madmanchan
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 09:14:11 AM »
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Are you then printing the new file created in PS from within LR or are your printing from the RAW file?

Thanks.

Bud James
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157923\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Bud, yes that's right -- the new PS file from within LR. When I do the Ctrl-E (Edit in Photoshop) command, a new PSD file is created, and that is stacked with my original (raw) file in LR. This is the PSD file that I get to sharpen in PS -- creative sharpening, output sharpening, etc.  I can also make output-dependent adjustments based on the soft proof while in PS. This PSD is the file that I print from.

Even with the round-trip to PS involved, it's worth printing from LR. I just prepared a whole set of images to be printed. They all happen to be printed using the same paper and profile, and I have a preset for this in LR. So I just select all of my fine-tuned PSD files in LR, go to the Print module, select the preset, and click Print.
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Hendrik
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 12:52:55 PM »
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Maybe a stupid question, but ... why the extra step and print in LR when the image is already finalized in CS3? Is it a better print quality or just better frames/lay-out?
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jgoodm
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 02:14:16 PM »
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I have to print from PS because the LR uses prophoto rgb and Epson 2400 doesn't recognize this after you install Leopard. Weird.
I too liked to print from LR until this glitch!
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budjames
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 08:37:31 PM »
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I have to print from PS because the LR uses prophoto rgb and Epson 2400 doesn't recognize this after you install Leopard. Weird.
I too liked to print from LR until this glitch!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158209\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Have you tried the new R2400 (OSX Leopard) driver available from Epson UK's web site? Perhaps it fixes the problem you described.

Bud
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Bud James
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madmanchan
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2007, 02:46:01 PM »
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Maybe a stupid question, but ... why the extra step and print in LR when the image is already finalized in CS3? Is it a better print quality or just better frames/lay-out?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158197\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Because if I have many prints to make, it's faster with LR. I just do "select-all", click my printing preset in LR, and click the Print button. No more wading through the various application and printer driver dialog boxes to ensure that everything is configured just right.
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seamus finn
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2007, 07:17:05 AM »
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Is it generally agreed that for proper sharpening, one must leave Lightroom and go into Photoshop at the very least? In other words, is Lightroom sharpening in its current state NOT up to the job?
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KeithR
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2007, 08:15:25 AM »
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Is it generally agreed that for proper sharpening, one must leave Lightroom and go into Photoshop at the very least? In other words, is Lightroom sharpening in its current state NOT up to the job?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158643\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

From what I have gathered, the sharpening within the develop mod should be considered as an input sharpening(as per the 1.1 update to the LL  LR tutorial)only. According to Jeff Schewe, the output sharpening within the print mod of LR isn't quite there yet. Also, at present, LR doesen't have soft proofing capability.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 08:17:06 AM by KeithR » Logged

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sojournerphoto
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2007, 09:34:17 AM »
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From what I have gathered, the sharpening within the develop mod should be considered as an input sharpening(as per the 1.1 update to the LL  LR tutorial)only. According to Jeff Schewe, the output sharpening within the print mod of LR isn't quite there yet. Also, at present, LR doesen't have soft proofing capability.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158661\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My experience exactly. I've recently tried to print an album using LR only and was quickly forced back to CS3 for softproofing and sharpening. It's worse for bigger prints on matte rag than small prints on plastic lustre though, so I can print big batch jobs without CS3.  Unfortunately the visit to CS3 provides the opportunity to spend extra time doing bits and bobs!

Mike
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Martin Ocando
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2007, 01:20:25 PM »
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Bud, once you open a file for editing in PS you have the chance to auto stack it to the original, so I do that. Sometimes I take the time and rename the file, instead of -Edit y change it to -EPSON-Premium-Gloss or something like that. But since that involves re-poiting the file to the original in LR, I just leave it stacked. Is rare that I print the same file on glossy and also on matte, so I just know that the -Edit file is the output file. I just have to remember for which kind of paper, but since the print preset will be already selected when I open the Print module, I know how it was printed before and on which type of paper.


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Mocando,

Thanks for the workflow steps.

I have a question. When you have the final output TIF back in LR, do you keep it with the original RAW file, use stacks or do you have a separate folder in LR for final output files?

Thanks again for sharing.

Bud James
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158119\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Martin Ocando
Panasonic Lumix DMC G3 - Panasonic G Vario 14-42mm f:3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS, Panasonic G 20mm f:1.7 ASPH, Panasonic G Vario 45-200mm f:4-5.6 OIS
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