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Author Topic: New Leopard Photoshop print dialog  (Read 5348 times)
Wayne Fox
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« on: December 05, 2007, 01:43:09 AM »
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Took the plunge the other day and have leopard running on all systems now. Working great.  Installed the new Epson 11880 beta 16bit driver (thanks for that post by the way), and was pleasantly surprised that all print settings are in one screen now.  Screen shot attached.
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tomrock
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 07:43:14 AM »
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I agree that it is a nice change but I'd call it the new Epson print dialog rather than the Photoshop dialog.

It almost makes me feel like I'm forgetting to change something because you only need the one pane for most papers.  
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digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 08:56:15 AM »
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There's a PDF on my site explaining some of the options and new features which don't work yet :-(

http://64.17.166.246/files/Epson_Driver_Leopard.pdf
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 09:21:40 AM »
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There's a PDF on my site explaining some of the options and new features which don't work yet :-(

http://64.17.166.246/files/Epson_Driver_Leopard.pdf
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158398\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks very much, Andrew!  Your PDF confirms my suspicions about the "marketing feature(s)" of the Leopard Epson driver ...

When I read the phrase "We are designing the drivers to function so that if you are printing 16-bit files from 16-bit capable printing applications", I was beginning to think that (on the Mac at least) there AREN'T any 16-bit capable printing applications !!!

Wonder when that'll be ...

DDH
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 09:22:27 AM by dhoelscher » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 09:33:44 AM »
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Your PDF confirms my suspicions about the "marketing feature(s)" of the Leopard Epson driver ...
When I read the phrase "We are designing the drivers to function so that if you are printing 16-bit files from 16-bit capable printing applications", I was beginning to think that (on the Mac at least) there AREN'T any 16-bit capable printing applications !!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I fear either I didn't express this clearly or perhaps you didn't read it as intended. The issue isn't the print driver, its the application! Neither Photoshop nor Lightroom passes the high bit data to the driver. The driver is ready to go, it can't until the application sends more than 8-bits of data.

So you should be thanking Epson and taking aim at Adobe and all other applications that don't yet provide the full data path.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2007, 09:45:05 AM »
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... perhaps you didn't read it as intended. The issue isn't the print driver, its the application! ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158403\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry to give you that impression; yes, I understand that it is a limitation of applications not passing 16 bit data to the driver ...

What I was getting at is Epson is promoting the 16 bit capabilities of their driver in their marketing campaigns ... there is no asterisk nor footnote stating that these capabilities can't be used yet because there are no 16-bit printing capable applications.


I was wondering when there WOULD be 16-bit printing capable applications.



I stand chastised for not praising Epson for delivering software "ahead of its time."

DDH
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jerryrock
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2007, 09:55:33 AM »
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Canon's iPF printers are able to bypass Photoshop's 8 bit limitation through the use of a 16 bit plug-in that Canon developed for Photoshop and DPP applications. The 16 bit file information is exported to the plug-in, instead of using the Photoshop print dialog.

You would think that Epson could do the same.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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digitaldog
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2007, 10:00:28 AM »
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What I was getting at is Epson is promoting the 16 bit capabilities of their driver in their marketing campaigns ... there is no asterisk nor footnote stating that these capabilities can't be used yet because there are no 16-bit printing capable applications.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158404\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well OK, I guess they could do that and yes, it might give the impression that the driver on its own provides this functionality. And its not that there are no 16-bit printing applications, just a few and not the big one's we all want to use.

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Canon's iPF printers are able to bypass Photoshop's 8 bit limitation through the use of a 16 bit plug-in

As for Canon's plug-in, well it does me no good if I want to print out of Lightroom or any other application. So its a stop-gap (some might say a kludge).

It took Leopard for Epson to provide 16-bit path for ALL applications that will pass off this data. So its a chicken and egg syndrome. Apple provided the ability, Epson built the driver now we need the applications to update and we can print this way across applications.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2007, 10:03:55 AM »
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... And its not that there are no 16-bit printing applications, just a few and not the big one's we all want to use. ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm curious ... on the Mac, what are those few applications Huh

DDH
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digitaldog
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2007, 10:08:47 AM »
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I'm curious ... on the Mac, what are those few applications Huh

DDH
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ImagePrint for one.
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Andrew Rodney
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2007, 12:41:51 PM »
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I agree that it is a nice change but I'd call it the new Epson print dialog rather than the Photoshop dialog.

It almost makes me feel like I'm forgetting to change something because you only need the one pane for most papers. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158380\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Good point.  I guess since I only print from Photoshop I tend to think with blinders on

I spent about 30 seconds looking for that other pane to turn off color management before discovering it there right in front of me.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2007, 12:43:16 PM »
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Well OK, I guess they could do that and yes, it might give the impression that the driver on its own provides this functionality. And its not that there are no 16-bit printing applications, just a few and not the big one's we all want to use.
As for Canon's plug-in, well it does me no good if I want to print out of Lightroom or any other application. So its a stop-gap (some might say a kludge).

It took Leopard for Epson to provide 16-bit path for ALL applications that will pass off this data. So its a chicken and egg syndrome. Apple provided the ability, Epson built the driver now we need the applications to update and we can print this way across applications.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So at this point, the data from photoshop to the driver remains the same, so no reason to create new "16bit" profiles for the printers?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2007, 12:50:45 PM »
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So at this point, the data from photoshop to the driver remains the same, so no reason to create new "16bit" profiles for the printers?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158459\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

16-bit profile?
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Andrew Rodney
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2007, 04:03:31 PM »
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16-bit profile?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158463\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm sure that's not the correct term.

I guess my question is once photoshop prints utilizing the full 16bits should the targets be reprinted and measured?  I use Bill Atkinsons targets still and they are 16bit. If I convert the target to 8bit, the histogram changes, dramatically in a few levels, so my weak logical thinking is that a similar change occurs when printing the target.  Once photoshop sends full 16bit information, perhaps that change won't occur,  resulting in some changes to the target (subtle I"m sure).

 I've heard discussion that those using the Canon export module for printing with 16bits should build a separate profile, but I"m not sure if that recommendation is due to it being 16bit, or just the fact that it uses the module vs the Canon/OS driver.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2007, 04:10:51 PM »
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The existing profiles should work fine either way.
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Andrew Rodney
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2007, 04:32:56 PM »
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16-bit profile?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158463\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What? You never heard of color profiles with 16 bit LUTs?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 04:39:19 PM by EricWHiss » Logged

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digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2007, 05:08:24 PM »
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What? You never heard of color profiles with 16 bit LUTs?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158506\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's NOT what he (and I) are talking about. Read the posts again.
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Andrew Rodney
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2007, 05:40:10 PM »
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The existing profiles should work fine either way.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158501\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks.
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Schewe
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2007, 11:17:53 PM »
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Canon's iPF printers are able to bypass Photoshop's 8 bit limitation through the use of a 16 bit plug-in that Canon developed for Photoshop and DPP applications. The 16 bit file information is exported to the plug-in, instead of using the Photoshop print dialog.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, no...it's 10 bit/channel to the print head for the Canons...not 16 bit. It takes a 16 bit image and 10 bits of precision...not 16 bit. And, besides, Photoshop's 16 bit is actually 15 bits + 1 level.
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DavidP
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2007, 11:44:40 PM »
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The 16 bit option is not showing up in the new beta driver for my 4800. I wonder if it is only supported in 3800 and 4880 series. I was hoping they would provide some backward compatibility.
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