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Author Topic: Death of the Hasselblad V series?  (Read 13391 times)
mtomalty
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« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2007, 11:14:15 AM »
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Grr...... today I got into some real issues with the CF & H. Stuff you don't read about on most forums


Can we read about it on tis forum?    :>))

Mark
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JessicaLuchesi
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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2007, 12:06:49 PM »
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No, it's not just you. That post (JessicaLuchesi,Dec 12 2007, 01:04 PM) is brimming with idiocy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Take away the comment I made on the same line, right after ( that people most probrably say that from comparing the H camera to the V system directly and alone, forgetting about other cameras on the market, to the point to hear from a photographer who owns a 35mm and used a H2 say the MF feels more plastic than the 35mm ), and yes, it makes me look like I'm an idiot. Which I'm not, but yes, my only experience with MF is with rental bodies, and from hearing from friends who used the H system and disliked it for that reason.

But if it's not proper, to ask, to debate and to kill doubts or bad impressions I have, I agree that there is no reason for threads like this, or forums like this, to even exist.
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samuel_js
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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2007, 02:34:40 PM »
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Take away the comment I made on the same line, right after ( that people most probrably say that from comparing the H camera to the V system directly and alone, forgetting about other cameras on the market, to the point to hear from a photographer who owns a 35mm and used a H2 say the MF feels more plastic than the 35mm ), and yes, it makes me look like I'm an idiot. Which I'm not, but yes, my only experience with MF is with rental bodies, and from hearing from friends who used the H system and disliked it for that reason.

But if it's not proper, to ask, to debate and to kill doubts or bad impressions I have, I agree that there is no reason for threads like this, or forums like this, to even exist.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160138\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jessica, the thing is that you said the H series feel plastic like if it was an universal truth. Believe me, it isn't. I think L glass looks like a toy beside H lenses, as the 5D looks like a small boy that want to grow up beside an H2. But that's my feeling about the camera. I have had both in my hands, I know how it feels. You should take a side or make decisions after your experience, not after what you hear or read.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2007, 02:42:05 PM »
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Sure,

The following is how things can go wrong. Today I was meeting with one of the publishers I work for. The meeting was about last year, how it went, what went well, what went wrong, what can be improved etc..

I also needed to do a portrait of the 'chief publisher' in between because in the colofon everyone was done in 1 style and his picture was different.

Since I have had not one problem whatsoever during the whole year I decided to travel light and just take the H2, CF39 and the 80 with me, together with a mono, reflector and some stands. No backup body, I would normally take either the digiflexII but most of the time the D200. Wishing it never comes out of the bag and sofar it did not. Last week I also just sold the D200 in anticipation of the D300 which will arrive early next week (it should have arrived early this week).

The morning I realized I still had the 384 on the H body so I detached the Ixpress adapter and put it on the CF39.

When I arrived at the publisher, we decided to do the portrait first and then do the evaluation. Everything was setup and I turned on the H and my back booted but gave me a message in the line of , 'need to update the adapter SW, please hookup to external power'. Now I took the CF39 in the first place to not have to bring my laptop, not bring the imagebank or firewire cables. So I could not update the adapter software. Fortunately my publisher also publishes several photography magazines so we were lucky an editor was in the process of doing a D300 review.

Now, the whole year nothing went wrong so I have some slack but it is not over yet...

When I went home I picked up some sets of clothing from another client that needed to be done and on my FTP before tomorrow noon. When I came home, I thought, well lets hookup the CF39 to Flexcolor and have the Ixpress Adapter software updated. Unfortunately this went terribly wrong and I had a body that was acting like a brick. I had to downgrade to 4.7.1, install the combined firmware again, upgrade to 4.8.3 which went wrong again. Downgrade to 4.7.1, install the combined firmware, upgrade to 4.7.3, upgrade to 4.8.3 which went wrong again, downgrade to 4.7.1, install the combined firmware and by that point when I was about 2 hours further down the road I decided to leave it at 4.7.1.

I just finished and have decided not to be cheap and give each back its own Ixpress adapters. Today I learned you should not mix those unless you are prepared to undergo some hardship.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 03:13:33 PM by Dustbak » Logged
robert zimmerman
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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2007, 03:31:45 PM »
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Sure,

The following is how things can go wrong. Today I was meeting with one of the publishers I work for. The meeting was about last year, how it went, what went well, what went wrong, what can be improved etc..

I also needed to do a portrait of the 'chief publisher' in between because in the colofon everyone was done in 1 style and his picture was different.

Since I have had not one problem whatsoever during the whole year I decided to travel light and just take the H2, CF39 and the 80 with me, together with a mono, reflector and some stands. No backup body, I would normally take either the digiflexII but most of the time the D200. Wishing it never comes out of the bag and sofar it did not. Last week I also just sold the D200 in anticipation of the D300 which will arrive early next week (it should have arrived early this week).

The morning I realized I still had the 384 on the H body so I detached the Ixpress adapter and put it on the CF39.

When I arrived at the publisher, we decided to do the portrait first and then do the evaluation. Everything was setup and I turned on the H and my back booted but gave me a message in the line of , 'need to update the adapter SW, please hookup to external power'. Now I took the CF39 in the first place to not have to bring my laptop, not bring the imagebank or firewire cables. So I could not update the adapter software. Fortunately my publisher also publishes several photography magazines so we were lucky an editor was in the process of doing a D300 review.

Now, the whole year nothing went wrong so I have some slack but it is not over yet...

When I went home I picked up some sets of clothing from another client that needed to be done and on my FTP before tomorrow noon. When I came home, I thought, well lets hookup the CF39 to Flexcolor and have the Ixpress Adapter software updated. Unfortunately this went terribly wrong and I had a body that was acting like a brick. I had to downgrade to 4.7.1, install the combined firmware again, upgrade to 4.8.3 which went wrong again. Downgrade to 4.7.1, install the combined firmware, upgrade to 4.7.3, upgrade to 4.8.3 which went wrong again, downgrade to 4.7.1, install the combined firmware and by that point when I was about 2 hours further down the road I decided to leave it at 4.7.1.

I just finished and have decided not to be cheap and give each back its own Ixpress adapters. Today I learned you should not mix those unless you are prepared to undergo some hardship.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

with an integrated, closed system this would never have hapened : D just kidding!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 03:32:06 PM by kipling » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2007, 03:40:33 PM »
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You are right it would not but in this case I consider it user stupidity and ignorance. Fact remains you have to constantly think about what you are doing, an open system likes this adds to the stuff you have to think about.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 03:42:13 PM by Dustbak » Logged
samuel_js
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« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2007, 04:30:22 PM »
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with an integrated, closed system this would never have hapened : D just kidding!
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You should be using Phase One! just kidding too.    
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H1/A75 Guy
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« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2007, 10:05:19 PM »
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But if it's not proper, to ask, to debate and to kill doubts or bad impressions I have, I agree that there is no reason for threads like this, or forums like this, to even exist.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160138\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Patronizing aside, I apologize for snapping at you. I have made mistakes on this forum criticizing manufacturer's of both equipment I own and equipment with which I have no experience, even when I do not have a clue what I'm talking about. There is nothing wrong with the premise of your thread. I appreciate and value that you are one of the few (2) women who speak on this forum and I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

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HassleBlads is going backwards really FAST...
I checked out a H3DII last week and I thought is was utterly Cr@p!
Plastic, overpriced, slow focusing JUNK.
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159863\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have less tolerance for posts like the above coming from a guy who has repeatedly asked for help on this forum and received it from many people, some of whom own H systems. He then turns around and thoughtlessly slams their cameras. The approach I'm trying to take is to critique what I do have in a constructive manner and respect what I don't have.
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patrickfransdesmet
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« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2007, 02:22:35 AM »
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A big factor here is the format difference. Hasselblad has a 6 by 6 square format. This format was popular in the film era for twin lens reflexes like the Rolleiflex that killed the dominant news camera: the Graflex. A camera with waist level finder was lighter and could be use for point and shoot from the hip while riding in the back of a Vespa paparazzi stile.

In more resent times Mamiya advanced the notion that a square format was wast full and inefficient --this doesn't mean that it had its iconic significance and large and important following-- because magazines and enlarging paper was not square so the 6 x 6 ended up most of the time as a 6 x 4.5 or close.

So they cover the two flanks of the Hasselblad format with the workhorse RB-RZ 67 and a 645 Pro.

Hasselblad must have realized that sensor size was estabilizing in the 6 x 4.5 and developed the H system with Fujifilm to be able to compete in the digital era. If they had continued with the 66 format the may be extinct by now --I think--.

There is one question that translates to digital times and is an interesting and good one.
a) Will we see MF sensor physically larger than the Delsa/Kodak of today,
b ) If this happens, how is the proportion of the real state gain going to be.

Creating a new larger size generation of sensors must be extremely expensive, so, will the chip makers go the square size way considering that this may not be the most efficient format since most applications are not square... will it just grow constraining proportions.

I would be surprised to see that a) and b ) produced a 6 x 6 format.
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patrickfransdesmet
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« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2007, 02:27:29 AM »
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Reading the article, and several posts on the Sinar Hy6 system, one thing came to mind... Hasselblad has the incredible V system, a very successful design, one that I love, a full 6x6 body. While Sinar, Leaf and Mamyia are gaining on developing open platform solutions, Hassel is sticking to a closed down H3D system. And the only digital support Hassel gives to the V series, is a 16Mp back, hardly enough for today's demands on MFDB level photography.

Why doesn't Hasselblad create a new V series body, updated with everything the H3 series has to offer, leaving all great things from the legacy V systems, as an open system, viable competitor to Sinar and Mamyia? And not locking it for digital use only, leaving it still compatible with the A12 film back.

I know it's not something easy to do, but I wonder why no longer any development go on the V series, since it's really SO successful, even Hassel had to acknowledge it with the new 16Mp back, and for a while, it's been one of the systems of choice for using PhaseOne backs. It's not just gonna die away, so why not simply recognize it, and do a full update?

PS: And yes, if I had that kind of resource to invest in a MFDB now, I would request a Hy6 test before thinking on the H3D. As I'm on rental, it's the 501CM with a Phase One back for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Do you know, DALSA already have a 5 x 5 chip ! very close to 6 x 6 no?
Give it the MOORE's Law famous series of 18 months and within a few years, it is payable for us.
They even have an full sized 110 Mpixels chip, to large for MF, but suited for LF ! probably the next frontier.
I also expect to see the BAYER trick disappear and to introduce 3 CCD chips as in PRO video camera's.
On the other hand, there's notyhing wrong with film, and a lot of photographers I know, went back to film for certain applications such as Fine art and Repro
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2007, 12:28:52 PM »
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"No, it's not just you. That post (JessicaLuchesi,Dec 12 2007, 01:04 PM) is brimming with idiocy."

"Is it just me, or do statements like these make you appear like a complete idiot? "


You know you two guys belong to D.P. Review instead of this forum. Why the need for the offensive remarks ?  You should be ashamed of yourselves. Everybody's entitled to an opinion.

Pete
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2007, 05:25:55 PM »
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I also expect to see the BAYER trick disappear and to introduce 3 CCD chips as in PRO video camera's.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160304\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That will never happen. It's not a big deal with the tiny CCDs used in video, but for a 6x6 chip? No way. Who wants a digital back the size of a lunch box, with weight of 5kg?
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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