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Author Topic: Canon 1ds mk III transfering too slooooow...  (Read 30500 times)
flashfredrikson
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« on: December 13, 2007, 01:44:53 PM »
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Hi everybody,
just recieved the 1ds mk III and put it through a workflow test. I set up Eos Utilitiy to capture the pics to a folder on a three disk raid on a macpro 3ghz, and used the watchfolder import in lightroom. Works very well and i like lightroom more then c1 which I used for years and still use for tethering. As I am shooting mainly fashion I need the pics to fly in continously for sometimes 200 shots in a row. Works very well with the p45+, you almost never hit a buffer and keep on shooting until the hardrives starts smoking.

But what about the new uber-canon? With the lack of c1 support for it and that usb connection it is almost impossible to keep shooting, except you are willing to wait 5 to 6 seconds after every shot, so you don't risk to hit the 12 pic buffer. Because 5 to 6 seconds is what it needs eos utilitiy to get that raw out of the camera and write it to the harddrive (and that is an internal s-ata raid! surely fast enough...) And those 5 to 6 seconds don't even include rendering previews in lightroom nor that internal file transfering lightroom requires.

I am now keeping my fingers crossed for an update of c1, maybe they can do it faster... But for what it is now, the mkIII is a total disappointment workflow wise for my kind of work, with the AD and client sitting next to the monitor watching the work proceed, the operator checking exposure and fokus on the fly, shooting to cards (which works really good, btw) is not an option.

While waiting for that buffer of the mkIII to clear (12x5 sec) i can easily shoot a polaroid and develop it :-)

So what do you think, anyone has the same problem here? or is my canon broke?


cheers,
martin


ps: no, I didn't use an usb 1.0 cable, even i first thought i would...
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flashfredrikson
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2007, 10:40:04 AM »
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some more findings:

today i shot again with the old and trusty mkII, tethered to the same mac as the mk III yesterday, it takes 3 seconds to write that file to the hd, no matter if you use eos utility or c1. twice as fast as the mk III, which allows for an very continous shooting rhythm... then i just tested the mk III again, using different cables, different computers, different harddrives... the assistant pulled out his iphone stopwatch, 6 to 7 seconds for each capture to be written to the hd.

it really seems usb is the bottleneck (one reader wrote me that usb is slowed down by apple on macs? i never had that impression, but who knows...)
Maybe i will try to get a pci card with usb and connect the cam there, maybe that speeds things up (and and express card for the laptop).

All in all, up to now I have to say i really like the new canon, especially the viewfinder is a pleasure to use. But if this tethering won't speed up somehow (magicians, please step in), this camera is only worth the half to me and anyone considering it for a similar workflow.


martin
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2007, 12:58:07 PM »
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Aren't you supposed to use the FireWire port for tethered shooting? On the 1D-MkII the USB port only works for connecting directly to a printer, and for tethered shooting the FireWire port is mandatory.
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juicy
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2007, 01:33:29 PM »
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There is no firewire connection in 1Ds3...

Cheers,
J
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djgarcia
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2007, 03:38:27 PM »
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Are you measuring transfer rates, or the fact that it takes longer to transfer a 1Ds3 raw file vs. a 1Ds2 file? Remember the 1Ds3 files are considerably larger, more megapixels plus more bits per megapixel. The USB vs. Firewire may also be a factor, but that will be PC-dependent. Some USB implementations work better than others.
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2007, 10:31:18 PM »
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Are you using the same computer as before, or a different one? I ask because aside from the speed of the USB port speed *in that computer* (USB port speed varies), the transfer rate is also dependent upon the speed of the hard drive.
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Larry Street
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007, 12:06:07 PM »
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I do not have one yet but can you send just the jpg and save the raw on a card?
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Larry Street
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phila
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 04:28:41 AM »
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5-6 seconds is about the same as I get downloading to a 12" PowerBook. Given the increase in file size I don't find that too bad actually. You don't have to wait for the file to download by the way before taking the next shot. I shot 4-5 images right after one each other today and they just cued up and downloaded in sequence.
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flashfredrikson
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 05:05:19 AM »
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Hi Phila and all,
if thats ok for your workflow, the mkIII is your camera, for my kind of work it makes the camera more or less useless when shooting tethered (which I do almost always), one photo every 6 seconds after you hit the buffer, my p45+ is 3 to 4 times faster when shooting a lot of pictures in a row.
Checked the file size of both the mkII and mkIII, around 15 MB vs 20 MB, always depending on the subject of course, so the bigger files are not the explanation for that lousy transferring perfomance. P45 rawfiles are around 40MB and they transfer much faster, just for comparison...
And I tried it on several macs, harddrives, raid sets, but with this relatively small file size, the hd performance doesn't come into play much.

maybe a windows user can chime in here, maybe usb 2.0 is really faster on pcs?


martin
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gehle
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007, 08:17:13 AM »
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Now wait a second - if you shoot the III at the same pace as what the P45+ is able to achieve (and not at the pace that the III can achieve, even tethered (which is a ton faster)) you are not going to fill the buffer. So your complaint is bogus.

I have the sIII and tested it on a PC laptop and I find the speed to be similar to the sII on firewire - using the very same laptop. Now I am not going to get out my measuring stick because it really doesn't matter. The speed is similar and I am satisfied.

I shoot national advertising campaigns, tethered to a laptop - so I surely could have the right to bitch if I wanted to - rather, I just adjusted to what tools I have to work with and shoot on.

Your apple ain't an orange.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 08:42:49 AM by gehle » Logged
flashfredrikson
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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 12:12:36 PM »
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Hi Gehle. thanks for your helpful comment.


Now wait a second - if you shoot the III at the same pace as what the P45+ is able to achieve (and not at the pace that the III can achieve, even tethered (which is a ton faster)) you are not going to fill the buffer. So your complaint is bogus.

I hit the buffer everytime, even if i shoot a frame every two seconds, which is still slower than the phase back. do the maths. of course you can take 12 quick frames in a row, or 20 slow ones, but then it comes down to one every 6 seconds.

I have the sIII and tested it on a PC laptop and I find the speed to be similar to the sII on firewire - using the very same laptop. Now I am not going to get out my measuring stick because it really doesn't matter. The speed is similar and I am satisfied.


Would be interesting to know if your the mkIII is as fast as the mkII, or is it as slow?

I shoot national advertising campaigns, tethered to a laptop - so I surely could have the right to bitch if I wanted to - rather, I just adjusted to what tools I have to work with and shoot on.

me too, an for me the mkII works better when tethered. and i am not bitchin, i think this is a big problem with the mkIII, at least for me and my work. if its fine for you, lucky you. But you know, I am just looking for help here.


martin
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gehle
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« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007, 12:46:34 PM »
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have you turned on any of the noise reducing Cfunctions? This will really slow down tethered shooting. I mean really slow it down.

Specifically, CFn II #1 , # 2 & #3.

Edit:

I just went and timed my setup and the images appear in 2-3 seconds using a Dell Inspiron 9400, the Canon supplied USB cable & DPP - very similar to the timing for the II on Firewire - yes, maybe a bit slower but nothing any AD is going to notice - I hardly notice the difference.

Check those CFunctions.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 01:12:59 PM by gehle » Logged
flashfredrikson
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2007, 05:50:28 AM »
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Thanks Gehle for timing this.
Boy, I think it really is the mac's usb ports...
Tried again today using an other laptop, using different cables, using an expresscard with usb instead of the build in usb ports, all custom functions were turned off (do they apply to the raws btw?), the writing times remain the same, whatever setup I use, around 6 seconds/file.

Would love to have those 2 to 3 your dell does...

A workaround I tried is only transferring JPGs to the computer, saving the raws to a cf card, works pretty well and now it is really fast. (then one could also use the wtf thing, nice thought, bye bye cable!)
But you will have a lot more work afterwards, as you cannot correct the raws already whlie shooting, selections made during the shoot will only be available on the jpgs then and all this stuff which made it so comfy shooting the mkII to c1pro.

or I will just shoot some polaroids tethered an then unplug.

or I buy a pc... not!

thanks again,
martin
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Mike Chini
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2007, 07:01:08 AM »
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Faster tethered shooting is essential nowadays for many shooters - myself included.  Who wants to shoot models when your digital tech can't check focus on location until you've already had the model change poses?  6 seconds is way too much for me.  I've worked with P45's and A65's and they download much faster to their respective programs.   Perhaps the new Capture One will handle these files faster (let's hope so).  I shot a job yersterday with the 1dsmk2 and files were getting to my Mac Book Pro in under 2 secs.  That's about as long as I'd like it to take!
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jsch
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2007, 07:04:36 AM »
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Quote
Thanks Gehle for timing this.
Boy, I think it really is the mac's usb ports...
Tried again today using an other laptop, using different cables, using an expresscard with usb instead of the build in usb ports, all custom functions were turned off (do they apply to the raws btw?), the writing times remain the same, whatever setup I use, around 6 seconds/file.

Would love to have those 2 to 3 your dell does...

A workaround I tried is only transferring JPGs to the computer, saving the raws to a cf card, works pretty well and now it is really fast. (then one could also use the wtf thing, nice thought, bye bye cable!)
But you will have a lot more work afterwards, as you cannot correct the raws already whlie shooting, selections made during the shoot will only be available on the jpgs then and all this stuff which made it so comfy shooting the mkII to c1pro.

or I will just shoot some polaroids tethered an then unplug.

or I buy a pc... not!

thanks again,
martin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I discussed the slow USB ports on the Mac recently with a friend. He runs his MacBookPro with Bootcamp. And on the exact same machine the USB port under windows is much faster than under OSX (Leopard). We had problems with external hard drives and the time differences were around a factor of 10. So I think Apple could solve that problem, if they want to.

Best,
Johannes
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flashfredrikson
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2007, 07:35:28 AM »
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thats really bad news...
apple will never change that, as long as they keep on supporting firewire I guess.
but at least it makes things clearer and canon is not to blame, even if most pros use apple (at least every working pro I know, might be different in japan :-) )

cheers,
martin
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Dansk
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 09:55:41 AM »
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That makes sense re Mac favoring firewire. I've had issues transferring files via USB b/u drives on new Macs that puzzled me because the transfer was not nearly as fast as USB2 claims.

  Perhaps its time someone made a firewire to USB adapter or perhaps there will be a PCI card solution for this in the future? I too shoot almost exclusively tethered and find the 2 second transfer annoying so this is certainly going to delay my 1Ds3 purchase.

  Switch to PC??? Not bloody likely  
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Craig Arnold
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 10:45:22 AM »
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Quote
  Switch to PC??? Not bloody likely 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163196\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well buying a cheap Dell box with XP or Linux and setting it up to simply transfer files  coming in straight to the RAID system would seem to be a cheap and effective solution.

No need to switch all your machines to Windows! They're just tools right? Same as camera brands. If one marque is letting you down for a specific purpose then just use a different tool.
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nemophoto
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 06:38:11 PM »
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Macs have always had poor implementation of USB, not unlike virtually non-existent 6-pin firewire on a PC notebook. Additionally, firewire is an Apple spec (in 6-pin implementation), so they would always favor their own technology. But, you aren't the only one with USB problems. I owned (for a short period) an Acer Ferrari notebook. Supposed to be souped up performance, etc. I discovered that the USB ports maxed out at 12Mbps -- about 1/3 the transfer speed of my desktop and other older notebooks -- when using external hard drives. It turned out to be a design flaw Acer would not acknowledge and couldn't repair after two returns. This limited tethered shooting (which I only do occasionally) as well.

Why not do what another poster suggested -- run Boot Camp and use the USB ports at faster speeds under Windows. Not ideal for a Mac guy, but cheaper than a new computer. Canon's DPP software disk is both PC and Mac. Though you seem to like using Lightroom, what about using EOS Utility and DPP for your workflow under Windows to get max speed? Honestly, any tech or assistant should know how to work both operating systems. I wouldn't dream of using someone who didn't because I go back and forth. (Either way, I know more than they do anyway.)
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Deep
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 09:34:28 PM »
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I use a G4 Powerbook with an external firewire hard drive.  I have always assumed the firewire is way quicker than USB because anything I plugged into USB seemed very slow by comparison.  Until I got a USB iPod!  I use it as an external hard drive on location, e.g. backing up photos at weddings and so on.  File transfer on that is super quick, really similar to the firewire hard drive.  So I guess Mac is playing a naughty little game with us - they obviously do not want their own iPod to run slow but do want other manufacturer's gear to be slower on USB!

I believe you can get a multiple USB hub which plugs into the firewire port.  This should overcome the whole problem and keep your workflow simple.  Not sure where in the world you are but a simple Google search should turn one up.  Good luck,

Don.
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Don
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