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Author Topic: Canon 1ds mk III transfering too slooooow...  (Read 30293 times)
flashfredrikson
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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2007, 10:22:25 AM »
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Never heard of a firewire to usb hub or adaptor, didn't find anything on the web like that also. As USB and firewire are two different protocols, I think that is something impossible, but pleas correct me.

I already tried an expresscard34 to usb card on my macbook pro, but that didn't speed up things. not at all.


cheers,
martin
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Deep
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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2007, 11:43:26 AM »
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Maybe you are right.  I remember a few years ago when I only had USB1 that someone proposed the hub as a solution.  I had a quick look and the nearest I found was something like this: http://computers.pricegrabber.com/usb-fire...890921/details/ .  I have to go to work now but will chase this up out of interest later.

Don.
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Don
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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2007, 01:24:17 PM »
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Hi
I know this might be off topic. USB 3.0 will be coming out next year & it will be 10X faster than USB 2.0. Looking ahead where does this leave fire wire? It seems to be a MAC thing & yes all MFD use FW . If USB 3.0 comes out can the 1DsIII be upgraded with a new USB port??? Looking into the future with this USB 3.0 speed claim plus eSata on drives, I see FW will loose more ground. Maybe now I understand why Canon has dropped FW.
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« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2007, 05:26:51 PM »
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Can someone please clue me in on how you set up the 1Ds MKIII to transfer only the jpg image when shooting tethered while leaving the raw on the card?

Also, firewire speeds will quadruple with the next version and will continue to use the FW 800 connection.

http://www.1394ta.org/Press/2007Press/december/12.12.a.htm
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djgarcia
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« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2007, 06:10:20 PM »
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If you can get me a new 1DsIII (which I would pay for), I'll be happy to give you the full process  ...
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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2007, 11:13:57 PM »
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I'll tell you what I've been telling everyone else: call Jody at Roberts in Indy.

http://www.robertsimaging.com/
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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dtrayers
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2007, 08:54:59 PM »
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Quote
Can someone please clue me in on how you set up the 1Ds MKIII to transfer only the jpg image when shooting tethered while leaving the raw on the card?

Set the camera up to record the RAW to one card and the JPG to the other (doesn't matter which).  Then set the playback to be from the card with the JPG files.  That will send the JPG via the WFT.  In other words, the files on the card set to play back are the files sent thru the WFT.
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Jens_Langen
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« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2008, 02:47:39 PM »
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This slow tethering situation with the 1dsmk3 sounds serious.  I'm a studio product and fashion shooter and always shoot with my 1Ds MKII tethered to a mac.  The previews appear after 4 seconds, which is already too slow for some of the work we do.  Apart from changing platforms, which I wouldn't  consider, what can be done? My dealer in Toronto just called me and said he has a 1DS MKIII waiting with my name on it, but I told him to sell it to someone else!

P.S. Forgot to mention that I'm using Capture One PRo 3.7.7
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 05:26:36 PM by Jens_Langen » Logged
Mike Chini
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« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2008, 06:06:49 PM »
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This slow tethering situation with the 1dsmk3 sounds serious.  I'm a studio product and fashion shooter and always shoot with my 1Ds MKII tethered to a mac.  The previews appear after 4 seconds, which is already too slow for some of the work we do.  Apart from changing platforms, which I wouldn't  consider, what can be done? My dealer in Toronto just called me and said he has a 1DS MKIII waiting with my name on it, but I told him to sell it to someone else!

P.S. Forgot to mention that I'm using Capture One PRo 3.7.7
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It's amazing.  I'd love for camera designers to actually come on a shoot with me.  I have such a list of complaints.  They probably think we're all a bunch of whiners that are never happy but in reality, ours is a fickle business and one mistake can drastically alter a career.  As an example, look at the ZD.  If it cost just $1,000 more they could have added more robust tethering, a larger LCD and still taken more profit.  My guess is that the ZD would now be the camera of choice for many shooters if they had done these things.  The 1ds3 has some nice features for sure but once again, who among us wouldn't trade in the extra 4 MP for added DR?  Or faster tethering.  Or solid lenses that come with a nice 4 or 5-year warranty.  Or a normal-sized body!!!  Ahhh, screw it.  Life's too short.  But I will say this, I feel like this whole industry is treading water right now.  Each platform has its problems and it seems as if none of the important limitations are being remedied while all of the unimportant ones are being improved.  Sorry for the rant...
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Jens_Langen
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« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2008, 08:14:00 PM »
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Mike,
As far as rants go, that was pretty tame- you could have done way more damage!
And you're right, it's hard to understand what their criteria might be when making these decisions-  "Yeah, the 6 pin firewire socket was a little too reliable on the 1Ds, lets go to a 4 pin for the next one".  And now "Gee, that 4 pin wasn't nearly as good as the 6 pin firewire- let's drop the firewire completely and go to something that's slower and isn't really mac compatible.  No one is using macs anymore."
I thought that the 1Ds series of cameras were studio cameras (someone told me the 's' stands for studio), so the irony meter is off the chart with the lack of practical tethering.  Apparently the wft transmitter only works smoothly when sending jpegs to the computer, so forget about checking focus on the "big shoot".  Just not practical...
I practically wore out the keys on my computer tracking the 1Ds MkIII on rumour sites and forums over the last year.  I've told clients about it, things like "I know my competitor uses a Phase One, but just wait till the new Canon camera comes out, and I'm first in line!"  Or how about this gem..."I'm getting the new wireless transmitter for it too- that will solve all these cable problems!"- as I reattach the cable to the body with duct tape (once again, because I actually removed it from the stand for one handheld shot), while my client stands there in his $400.00 blue jeans.  I've used Phase and Hasselblad and just want a camera like the 1Ds MkII that works so well for my business- fashion in the morning, packaging photography in the afternoon, and high end event photography a few evenings a year.  My clients want to see the image on the big monitor or the laptop, so I'm seriously thinking of switching to something else, like Phase, because they seem to understand tethering (but not wireless, unfortunately).  Whatever I decide won't affect Canon's business model one way or another, but this is a serious letdown...
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Mike Chini
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« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2008, 09:11:08 PM »
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I guess we can just sum it up like this:

MIRROR LOCKUP BUTTON

The 1d's are hilarious!  They have a gazillion buttons and look like something out of a 1980's sci-fi film but they have no MLU!  Come on!!!  You put a heavy AA filter on the chip but then make it a PITA to get to MLU.  Oi VEY!

In the end, maybe they know best.  Maybe more hobbiest photogs buy these things than actual shooters.  That would be the only explanation for all of this that makes any sense!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 09:11:28 PM by Mike Chini » Logged
Dansk
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« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2008, 10:15:09 PM »
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Jens I'm with you all the way. I've been waiting with drool on my chin for the "s" mk3 for so long and then USB?? So I give them the benefit of the doubt figuring hmm well maybe they got it working fast. Now these posts...Shame really to come so close...

  Fow what its worth just to lay my own thoughts about quality; I dont really buy ANY of the garb about the 21mp Canon being so FAR inferior to the Phase backs thats B.S. I've been shooting with Phase since the original lightphase 6mp back on Hassey's and now an H20 and I can tell you without a doubt at 100 ISO the Canon IDs ( even mk1 as far as I'm concerned ) was soooooo damn close only losing out in "default" sharpness and a smidgen in color balance. Through Phae via Firweire the transfer speed was tolerable in previous 1D bodies but now sadly this USB slow transfer crap is likely making me look into a new Pseries phase instead of the mk3.

  Still I can wait a little while and will rent a Mk3 and try it for myself just to be certain before I close the book on this one. But these testimonies are certainly enough to keep me from purchasing one now. I run everything through Capture One and in fact it was the only reason i bought an original 1Ds in the first place was because of the Capture One/Canon compatibility. If you recall the very first version of "Capture one" was for the 1Ds only. Software was identical to lightphase just a new name and a new direction. I wonder if Phase is happy about that now though???
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 10:16:30 PM by Dansk » Logged
billy
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2008, 04:11:54 PM »
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Quote from: Jens_Langen,Jan 3 2008, 09:14 PM
" Apparently the wft transmitter only works smoothly when sending jpegs to the computer, so forget about checking focus on the "big shoot". "

I was going to do just this, send jpgs via the wifi and shoot raws to the CF card, seems like a great way to shoot. I am wondering what you mean about not being able to check sharpness, if the jpg is on focus wont the raw file be in focus as well?
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Jens_Langen
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2008, 08:35:57 PM »
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Billy,
Jpegs don't do it for my workflow because you can't use the focus tool in C1 Pro to check critical focus of a jpeg- it only works on raws.  The art director on the majority of the fashion shoots that we do likes to check fine focus of the eyes during the shoot, as do I, and even on our 30" monitor, you can't tell what's sharp until you use the focus tool.  We're often waiting a minute for the buffer to write to the hard drive before we can check focus- the shots just keep coming in one after the other after I've stopped shooting.  This is with the MKII.
It is amazing how difficult it is sometimes to get the focus just right, but I do find that the autofocus does a good job of locking on. Recently I discovered that my 17-40mm is back-focusing- the shots looked good in the viewfinder and on the monitor and the model was changing back into her street clothes when I checked with the focus tool and discovered the back wall was sharp, but not her!  Called her back into the room and spent 5 minutes reshooting.  If I had been downloading cards, she would have been gone by the time it was noticed.  Always, always use the focus tool to check the sharpness of your raw images!
Just to answer Dansk, I don't really want to get into the differences between MB and 1ds.  I've used both and to be honest, the Phase H20 I used for years (I know, it's old in digital years) produced sharper images than the MKII, and that was using older Hasselblad lenses on a V body. But it was a pain to use and the first 1ds i bought was a real breath of fresh air.  Imagine, shooting wideangle again!  And it wouldn't fail just at the critical moment.  The only time my MKII failed was at the very end of an intense 5 day shoot, after 12,000 exposures in one week.  There were over 200,000 captures on that shutter which Canon swapped out while I shot with a loaner.  If that had been Phase, the back would have stopped working on the first morning (I shouldn't be this harsh, but it's funny how it always screwed up at the worst possible moment- it could sense these things).  And then the back would have been shipped to Denmark, via New York, while I rented an expensive replacement.    I rented a Digiflex once and used older Nikon lenses, and that was a sweet combination for sharpness of images, significantly sharper than the older German glass.  But clumsy.  It's all a little bit clumsy, except for the Canon, which had great promise as a studio camera in it's newest form, but it just doesn't work for me- not yet anyway.
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Steve_Niedorf
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2008, 12:24:23 AM »
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Same problem with the mkIII and the MacBook with dpp.  Very fast with my mkII very slow with the mkIII.  
It is the perfect storm of Canon cheaping out and going with USB 2 and Apple not really trying too hard with the USB drivers to make sure firewire stays faster.  
It seems that Boot Camp and Windows is the way to go for starters.  I'm running 10.4 and it seems that the only way to get boot camp now is with Leopard.  I was under the impression that DPP does not work with Leopard. Anyone know a link to get a stand alone version?
One of the earlier posters mentioned sending the raws to the card and jpgs to the laptop, how do you configure that? It did not seem to be an option on DPP/EOS Utility.

Thanks!
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Mike Chini
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2008, 03:59:29 PM »
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This would have to be remedied before I even thought of buying this camera.  I'd love to hear more reports from people about this!
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Hans_de_Kort
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2008, 04:00:06 AM »
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I talked to Canon in the Netherlands and told them about this forum.
They did a little test friday afternoon and I was told that on a PC it took 4 sec and on a intel mac it is 6 sec. With my 1DsmarkII tethered FW it takes 4 seconds for a 10,5MB rawfile (MacbookPro)
I will do the test this afternoon myself with a 1DsmarkIII
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 04:56:39 AM by Hans_de_Kort » Logged

dtrayers
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2008, 04:35:37 AM »
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One of the earlier posters mentioned sending the raws to the card and jpgs to the laptop, how do you configure that? It did not seem to be an option on DPP/EOS Utility.

Thanks!
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You don't set it with DPP, you set it with the camera.  

Now, this applies to using the WFT-E2A.  I don't know about a physical tether, but I think it would work the same.

Configure the camera to write a CR2 to one card and a JPG to the other.  Then, set the camera to playback from the JPG card.  When you enable the WFT, if you go back and look at the menu where you set which card gets which file format, you'll now see a third option for the WFT, but it isn't selectable, it just matches whatever card is set for playback.

My 1DmkIII is out getting a blue dot right now.  When it gets back I can make some screen shots, if it helps.
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2008, 05:30:49 AM »
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My little test with counting twentyone, twentytwo, ....
All on MacBookPro with Leopard

P30+ tethered with CaptureOne   25mb 4 sec  FW
1DsmarkII with EOS Utility          12mb 4 sec  FW
1DsmarkIII with EOS Utility         20mb 6 sec  USB2
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 01:10:41 PM by Hans_de_Kort » Logged

Steve_Niedorf
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« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2008, 10:11:07 AM »
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Note: The splitting of RAWs and jpgs does not seem to be able to be implemented using a tether and DPP. (ie: RAW to card and jpg to computer)

That said...

Here is pretty good news. I updated my Mac to Leopard and via Boot Camp I installed Windows XP Family, the Canon DPP software, and a program called Mac Drive 7 from:
http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive/bootcamp/.

Mac Drive allows the windows partitioned laptop to see the mac side partition of the drive,
as well as Mac formated external drives. I allocated 8 gigs for the Windows partition. I am
not planning on keeping any files in it due to Mac Drive and the OS takes up a little over 5
gigs.

Getting everything installed and sorted does take some time but Boot Camp walks you
through it.

So to capture...while in Windows I set a folder in the Mac side of the drive to receive the
CR2 files. I opened DPP and the EOS utility. The file transfer time from the mkIII to my
MacBook (2.16 ghz/2 gig ram) went from around 6 seconds with the MacOS to about 2
seconds with Windows xp. Much more importantly however I could easily shoot 15 plus
images rapidly before the buffer hit and when it does the camera captures do not come to
a halt as with the MacOS but cleared quickly, incrementally, and allowed for more
shooting.

The handling, capture speed, data transfer seems very similar to how the mkII worked
with the same laptop with the MacOS and Fire Wire

So in my opinion mkIII/DPP/USB 2/tethered and the MacOS are basically not compatible
with shooting any action basically due to Canon's use of USB 2 and Apple's poor USB driver
speed.

But with a Windows laptop or with an Intel/Mac machine with Boot Camp the capture
speed and buffer seems robust. I have not tried the other Mac VM programs Fusions or
Parallels. These allow you to run both Mac and Windows at the same time (my
understanding is that Fusions might be better for this). It would seem that these may be a
little slower with more memory overhead but I'm not sure.

The bad news here is if you have a Mac you have to upgrade Leopard, and/or get Fusion, buy Windows, and fuss around with all that entails. The good news if you have a Mac/Intel at least you can take advantage of this new camera in the tethered mode and shoot action.
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