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Author Topic: Difference between Hassy H2d and H3d (cfh39) backs  (Read 6637 times)
abiggs
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« on: December 16, 2007, 08:09:48 PM »
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What are the differences between the Hasselblad H2D digital back and the H3D (CFH39?) digital back? I know both were available in the 39 megapixels.


??
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Andy Biggs
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mtomalty
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2007, 10:42:54 PM »
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What are the differences between the Hasselblad H2D digital back and the H3D (CFH39?) digital back?


Andy

I'm not familiar enough with the brand to recall what evolution occurred with the
change from H2D-39 to the H3D39 but I can tell you that the difference between these
models and the CF39 is that the  H2D/H3d are integrated backs in that they will only work with
the H cameras and a large format solution while the CF series incorporates a series of
adapters to permit use on third party cameras such as Contax,Mamiya,etc


Mark
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Dinarius
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2007, 01:39:23 AM »
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The new H3D ll 39 is also available as a multi-shot. The H3D was not.

D.
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godtfred
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 01:57:17 AM »
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What are the differences between the Hasselblad H2D digital back and the H3D (CFH39?) digital back? I know both were available in the 39 megapixels.
??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161115\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The H2D does not have the neccesary contacts to connect to a view camera, both the H3D and CFH backs have these contacts.

A H2 with CFH-39 back will give you the same functionality as the H3D, (may be with the exception of thumb wheel operation of the back, as of the new H3D firmware...) DAC II and all other goodies in Flexcolor will work with the H2+CFH combo. To use them on view-cameras you need a powersource like a computer or the ImageBank, but otherwise no wake up is needed, just a sync cable.

All three cameras have the IR filter that causes some trouble for Architecture photographers, and those shooting directly into some kinds of light sources. Ohterwise fine products.

-axel
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Axel Bauer
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 02:03:38 AM »
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The H2D does not have the neccesary contacts to connect to a view camera, both the H3D and CFH backs have these contacts.

A H2 with CFH-39 back will give you the same functionality as the H3D, (may be with the exception of thumb wheel operation of the back, as of the new H3D firmware...) DAC II and all other goodies in Flexcolor will work with the H2+CFH combo. To use them on view-cameras you need a powersource like a computer or the ImageBank, but otherwise no wake up is needed, just a sync cable.

All three cameras have the IR filter that causes some trouble for Architecture photographers, and those shooting directly into some kinds of light sources. Ohterwise fine products.

-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161163\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

godtfred, what is the ir problem? i haven't heard or experienced any ir problems with the h3d. could you explain further? thanks.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 02:09:22 AM »
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Weird casts/flare in green and/or magenta when multiple (temp) light sources are in view. That is what it basically comes down to.

I experience it only with interior shots in darker areas with bright light sources. It can be a real pain in the b*tt.  

The new backs have a new and improved IR filter which apparently doesn't have this problem.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 02:12:12 AM by Dustbak » Logged
godtfred
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2007, 02:21:56 AM »
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See these examples from mikemigs:

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Sorry Kipling, but I did not spend enough time comparing the H3D to the H3DII to notice any differences in performance and features. I was specifically comparing how they handled the flaring during long exposures. Conclusion: the H3D created artifacts around the starbursts; the H3DII was fine.



[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Axel Bauer
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2007, 02:29:27 AM »
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See these examples from mikemigs:
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161167\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Axel, you had the H3D/H3DII right? How do you feel about the change to H2/P45+? I assume the "integrated solution" had it's drawbacks too?
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eronald
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2007, 02:47:24 AM »
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Axel, you had the H3D/H3DII right? How do you feel about the change to H2/P45+? I assume the "integrated solution" had it's drawbacks too?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161170\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The H3DII back looks like it's been totally redesigned - HUGE screen -compared to P1, no fan, contacts for GPS, back and body are a life-bonded pair calibrated for micro-focus at the factory.

Whether all of this translates into effective image quality changes is something for Hasselblad  to know and you to find out

It's nice to see one company actually bringing new products to market at a steady pace, even if we don't all agree with their philosophy.

Edmund
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Dinarius
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2007, 03:24:09 AM »
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It's nice to see one company actually bringing new products to market at a steady pace, even if we don't all agree with their philosophy.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161174\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Edmund, please elaborate.  
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godtfred
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2007, 05:38:00 AM »
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Axel, you had the H3D/H3DII right? How do you feel about the change to H2/P45+? I assume the "integrated solution" had it's drawbacks too?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161170\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thats right. I started with the H2D-22 for around a month, went with a H2+CFH-39, and ended up with a H3D-39 (cheap upgrade from H2+CFH-39, cost 1000 euros, and the back was brand new, but the body just got new circuitry, where the outer shell stayed the same.)

I have been a bit reluctant to speak about my switch so far, as I'm not too familiar with the P1 yet. However, some of my personal experiences are:

H3D system has a gorgeous and low contrast file, where you have to work a lot to get the "punch" out of it. This was for me a great way of working, as I love PS techniques that bring out a little bit of the picture at a time.

P45+ has an equally gorgeous, but very punchy file, with midtones and highlights pushed way to the right. Turning off the default tone curves leaves you with a file that does not look very good, and is not a starting point for me. This forces me to re-evaluate my whole digital workflow, relying on the raw converter to get me "almost there" instead of PS. This is reason nr.1 for me to wait on commenting the two systems, as I need to seriously work the P1 files for a while to see if i can get the same amount of control back as I felt I had with the Hasselblad system.

For me the H3D-39 starts at "zeroed" and you add what you like, P45+ starts close to maxed out, and you subtract/tweak. It's a matter of personal preference, where product/architecture shooters are likely to enjoy the P45+, and skin/lifestyle shooters will probably like the H3D more. But It's all so different from ones personal style to anothers...

As far as hardware goes, I won't hide the fact that I had lots of trouble with my H2+CFH-39 system, with the camera locking up all the time and at one point erasing half of a CF card, (as to why I still wonder to this very day...) I lost a lot of outside lighting opportunities to this camera. The H3D got a lot better, but still had trouble, and at one point locked up completely (dealer had to fix it.) This was the drop and I would not touch the camera again. They offered me an upgrade to the H3D-II but I said no, and got myself two H2 bodies and a P45+. The two bodies offer redundancy, as well as the P45+ having a solid 3 years warranty program and a free mount change. So I feel pretty safe now.

P45+ on a H2 rocks, I now don't have a single lock-up, no resets, no issues when the firewire cable gets yanked out of the socket, etc. It's just solid, solid, solid. But as some here may know, my P45+ is now in Denmark to have an image issue sorted out, so the verdict is not in yet on wether I traded a hardware problem for an IQ problem... P1 seems very forthcoming, and have expedited my complaint quickly and efficiently (Hasselblad, read that last sentence again!) If the back returns safely and the IQ problem is fixed, I'm a happy shooter.

I do also use a view camera from time to time, and I did not think the Image-bank that I needed to use for power on the H3D-39 was too much of a hassle. Now i know otherwise, the integrated battery of a P45+ is a dream in comparison, and a lot less hassle than the wake up shot introduces. The lens cast kit that comes with the P1 is also a lot better, as Hasselblad provides none...

Lastly I have several colleagues who shoot the H3D-39 happily without incident, also many on this board shoot this camera with great success. I would recommend this camera to anyone, but would be very vary of buying used without a return warranty or a known seller who will be fair if problems arise.

-axel
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 05:57:16 AM by godtfred » Logged

Axel Bauer
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abiggs
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2007, 08:17:16 AM »
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Thanks, guys. So far all I have been able to learn is that the H2D digital back cannot be used on a view camera. Is the back on the H2D the same as the CF39 or CFH39, other than the contacts that would enable view camera use?

I am familiar with the Imagebank setup, as I have shot with the H3D and H3DII systems on a view camera. Not a big deal.
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Andy Biggs
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Dinarius
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2007, 08:27:56 AM »
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Can't resist saying that 2 hours ago I put a deposit on a H3D ll 39Mp Multi-Shot complete with the 50-110mm zoom lens.

I also got an extra battery grip and a grid focussing screen.

My local agent made me an offer I simply could not refuse!

Happy days!  

D.
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 08:49:53 AM »
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Can't resist saying that 2 hours ago I put a deposit on a H3D ll 39Mp Multi-Shot complete with the 50-110mm zoom lens.
Happy days!   

D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161224\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mine (H3D39mk2 - not MS) arrived this morning. I don't think you will be disappointed.
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BJNY
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2007, 08:06:51 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 06:49:28 AM by BJNY » Logged

Guillermo
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2007, 09:04:19 AM »
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Andy,

My question is somewhat related as I find your site very interesting and like the idea of one of your workshops. By the time I am ready to go on one of those workshops I will have both a DMF and DSLR. Weight is always a pressing concern when travelling long distances in an airplane so here's what I wonder about:

Do you use MF for photography? I know that you did for some pictures of Masai but what about landscapes/trees etc? Were you happy with the MF results that you captured?

Would you encourage potential participants to bring a DMF camera/back with them on safari?


Curious,


Sean
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abiggs
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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2007, 09:10:40 AM »
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Andy,

My question is somewhat related as I find your site very interesting and like the idea of one of your workshops. By the time I am ready to go on one of those workshops I will have both a DMF and DSLR. Weight is always a pressing concern when travelling long distances in an airplane so here's what I wonder about:

Do you use MF for photography? I know that you did for some pictures of Masai but what about landscapes/trees etc? Were you happy with the MF results that you captured?

Would you encourage potential participants to bring a DMF camera/back with them on safari?
Curious,
Sean
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sean-

I have to say that MF digital is a niche tool for safari photography. It just doesn't fit as an all in one solution, unfortunately. I have, until now, rented or borrowed medium format digital systems for my domestic or overseas trips. With all of my Namibia trips taking up more and more of my time, MF digital is a more appropriate tool for the work that I am doing these days. And I am also shooting 6x24 panoramas of wildlife and landscapes.

MF digital has its place out on safari, but it wouldn't be the only camera that I would bring. 35mm still rules the day for wildlife, but I still can find opportunities to bring out a bigger system from time to time. Keep in mind that I spend a ton of time out on safari each year, and I am totally ok with coming home with 1 or 2 images from each 3-week safari that I like. In 3 or 4 years I will be glad that I started shooting MF digital, even if the number of keepers is much lower.

I hope this helps

Andy
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Andy Biggs
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« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2007, 12:31:39 PM »
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Hi Andy,

thanks - it is helpful. I also don't see DMF as an all in one solution, particularly for fast moving wildlife. But I can also bring a light DSLR for galloping herds of Zebra.  


Sean
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abiggs
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« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2007, 12:34:21 PM »
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I see my using a DMF solution as a 20% solution, a 6x24 panorama camera for another 20%, and 35mm digital SLR as the remainder.
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Andy Biggs
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« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2007, 02:50:59 PM »
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Andy:  This is a little OT from your original question, but I was wondering what 6x24 camera you're using?  There aren't many of them around... I've heard of the Tomiyama Art camera, but that's about the only one.

Mike.


Merry Christmas!
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