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Author Topic: calibration  (Read 4708 times)
ybeinart
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« on: December 30, 2007, 03:07:10 PM »
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Hi,
I bought an LCD screen which seems brighter then the CRT I was using. The prints come out too dark (the colors seem OK). I calibrated the screen (using spyder3) - no difference.

Any ideas?
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kaelaria
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2007, 03:39:47 PM »
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What luminance did you set your monitor to?  What printer profile did you use, and did you properly soft proof before printing?
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Mort54
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2007, 11:35:36 PM »
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Hi,
I bought an LCD screen which seems brighter then the CRT I was using. The prints come out too dark (the colors seem OK). I calibrated the screen (using spyder3) - no difference.

Any ideas?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164093\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You need a luminance value of roughly 110. When you calibrate your monitor, usually all you get is a report of what the luminance is. The calibration process doesn't set the luminance. You need to do that manually.
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The View
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2008, 11:35:58 PM »
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You need a luminance value of roughly 110. When you calibrate your monitor, usually all you get is a report of what the luminance is. The calibration process doesn't set the luminance. You need to do that manually.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164157\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I use Eye One Display 2 and I have never seen this luminance report.

But I always had the impression that something was missing, as the screen brightness never gets adjusted.

I am on a 24" iMac and would really be interested on how to get proper screen brightness...
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Nat Coalson
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 12:37:25 AM »
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Sorry to say that Spyder is not to be trusted. You'd get much better results with an X-Rite i1. Right now, there's no other monitor profiling package worth considering.

On the iMac (depending on the model) the luminance can only be controlled with the Brightness adjustment, and in some cases not even that. And you will be surprised at how "dim" you have to make the screen to read "correctly", especially with the Spyder.

So if you can afford to get an i1, that's the first step. Then, during calibration, set the brightness to whatever is comfortable to you - regardless of what the software may say - and go forward from there.

And don't forget that in any case you have to soft-proof in a full version of Photoshop to get predictable print results.

I have a basic intro to soft proofing on my printing web site
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pete_truman
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 05:42:01 AM »
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As everyone else has indicated, you must turn down the brightness on your monitor. I had exactly the same problem and was a source of constant frustration until I started again from first principles.

The ColorEyes Display Pro package works well with the Spyder 2 puck, and if your monitor is an Apple Cinema Display it will work rather well with this and adjust brightness for you (although you still need to tell it what to set it to) A luminance value of 110 works for me.

You may find my short article on Colour Management of use. This refers to Aperture rather than Lightroom but the principles are just the same.
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Pete Truman
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 08:41:06 AM »
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110 cd/m2 is kind of low for many LCDs to produce. I know with my NEC 2690, I started at 120 cd/m2 and NEC suggested 150. Now about the prints. I have a light box that has adjustable intensity, its a must! While you may be able to get away at 110 cd/m2 to produce a match, it may not be possible for others and its useful to have control over both the viewing booth luminosity as well as that of the display.
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Andrew Rodney
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sojournerphoto
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 10:18:57 AM »
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110 cd/m2 is kind of low for many LCDs to produce. I know with my NEC 2690, I started at 120 cd/m2 and NEC suggested 150. Now about the prints. I have a light box that has adjustable intensity, its a must! While you may be able to get away at 110 cd/m2 to produce a match, it may not be possible for others and its useful to have control over both the viewing booth luminosity as well as that of the display.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There is an issue here - before I turned down the brightness (backlight) of my Dell display my prints were all far too dark, despite softproofing. One in particular had very clear shadow detail on screen in an area of dark blue (printed on innova F-type gloss) that was almost invisible on the print - except if I held the print in direct sunlight it came to life:) Obviously this isn't really a satisfactory long term approach, but it suggests to me that there needs to be a match (not necessarily an equivalence, but a correlation) between screen brightness and display conditions.

Any views on this?

Thanks

Mike
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2008, 10:46:15 AM »
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Did you use the simulate paper white and ink black and view the image in full screen mode (no palettes or menu's) when comparing print to display?

What are you using to view the prints? Print viewing and display soft proof are related.
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Andrew Rodney
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Nat Coalson
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2008, 04:42:48 PM »
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Good point, Andrew... without Simulate Black Ink and Paper White, the soft-proof is less than useful.

I use the daylight halogen bulbs from SoLux for viewing. I've been very pleased with them.

That said, sometimes I look at prints in sunlight too! And tungsten, and fluorescent, etc. etc.... knowing how metamerism will affect an image printed with a specific paper and ink combination is very helpful when making adjustments during soft-proofing. And sometimes I end up using a different substrate than what I had originally planned as a result.

It is helpful to know the lighting conditions under which the print is expected to be viewed but not always possible. JP Caponigro says he makes different soft-proof adjustments for different types of lighting. I haven't gone that far, but I do try to find the best all-around balance because I don't usually have control over how my prints will be viewed.
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The View
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2008, 10:37:42 PM »
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110 cd/m2 is kind of low for many LCDs to produce. I know with my NEC 2690, I started at 120 cd/m2 and NEC suggested 150. Now about the prints. I have a light box that has adjustable intensity, its a must! While you may be able to get away at 110 cd/m2 to produce a match, it may not be possible for others and its useful to have control over both the viewing booth luminosity as well as that of the display.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How do you adjust the brightness of an lcd display? It doesn't seem to be part of the calibration with the Eye One Display 2.
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RogerW
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2008, 03:35:22 AM »
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How do you adjust the brightness of an lcd display? It doesn't seem to be part of the calibration with the Eye One Display 2.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164934\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Look in the monitor instructions for the backlighting control.  It's usually this you need to reduce.
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Craig Murphy
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2008, 08:25:23 AM »
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I purchased the solux 4700 degree kit.  Right now they are about 8' up from the viewing surface.  My 2690 is set at 130cd/m2.  Prints still look darker than they do on screen.  I could easily lower them.    What do you think the correlation should be between monitor cd/m2 and light intensity on the print?
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CMurph
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2008, 08:55:13 AM »
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I purchased the solux 4700 degree kit.  Right now they are about 8' up from the viewing surface.  My 2690 is set at 130cd/m2.  Prints still look darker than they do on screen.  I could easily lower them.    What do you think the correlation should be between monitor cd/m2 and light intensity on the print?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164985\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's the biggest issue with Solux (or any such lighting), you have to adjust them physically to get the brightness to match the display. And you have to flag them pretty good not to hit the display, too much of a wall, etc. The correlation is, the two match closely. I don't think measuring is going to work as well as say a digital dimmer (useful on the Fluorescent boxes). That will not fly with the Solux, you'll alter their color. You either move them, or the viewing area. You could try lowering the display luminance to 120 cd/m2 and see how that goes. I don't know I'd go much lower.
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Andrew Rodney
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N Walker
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2008, 09:40:42 AM »
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110 cd/m2 is kind of low for many LCDs to produce. I know with my NEC 2690, I started at 120 cd/m2 and NEC suggested 150. Now about the prints. I have a light box that has adjustable intensity, its a must! While you may be able to get away at 110 cd/m2 to produce a match, it may not be possible for others and its useful to have control over both the viewing booth luminosity as well as that of the display.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Andrew,

Why is 110 cd/m2 too low for an LCD? I have been working at 90 cd/m2 in cave conditions, grey walls, using a quality light-box to provide very low ambient light source and have not suffered any issues. Just curious!

Nick Walker
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 09:42:40 AM by Nick Walker » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2008, 09:48:02 AM »
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Andrew,

Why is 110 cd/m2 too low for an LCD? I have been working at 90 cd/m2 in cave conditions, grey walls, using a quality light-box to provide very low ambient light source and have not suffered any issues. Just curious!

Nick Walker
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165001\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Depends on the display. For a CRT, no problem at all. For newer LCD's, that's getting at the lower limits of what they can handle well, at least that's what I was told about the NEC I'm using. Initially I calibrated at 120cd/m2, it was suggested I try 150.
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Andrew Rodney
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