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Author Topic: Monitors sRGB versus aRGB  (Read 29373 times)
edt
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2008, 09:56:40 AM »
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Still hesitating between Eizo CG241 (wider format) and CG211 (better neutrality for pictures, my only  usage for it).
Any experience, anyone ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171758\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OK--Sounds like Hellstan and I are both about to place orders--I hope to place my order TODAY.
I have narrowed my choices to: Eizo CG241 (about 24" and $2300), CG19 (about 19"/small(!) and $1500, NEC 2690, NEC 2490.

Nec 2690 appears to be best bang for the buck, it's larger, and it's aRGB. But Andrew/digital dog said above that w/ srgb images, the aRGB might actually be a disadvantage? I do some editing in aRGB for printing on the epson....but I do a lot of youth sports work, and for that I set all color mgmt settings to srgb to be in sync with the lab (that prints fuji archive on frontier printers, the lab is all srgb).

For me, I want to stay under $1600....so the Eizo CG19 w/ the 5 yr warranty is a safe choice, but the nec 2690 is my choice IF the above aRGB/sRGB thing is NOT a problem...I need to decide!
Ed T
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Hellstan
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2008, 10:04:19 AM »
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All pros I know and respect put Eizo at the top of its class.
Only that CG241 is wider than CG211, and the latter more neutral.
As my work is essentially studio portrait, product and street photography,
and 3/4 B/W, that suits my needs.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2008, 10:06:11 AM »
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But Andrew/digital dog said above that w/ srgb images, the aRGB might actually be a disadvantage?

What I said (more or less) is both an sRGB and Wide Gamut are ideal, that if you do a lot of very subtle color correction work on lower gamut images, it will be easier to see these subtle differences on a lower gamut unit.

Think of the two displays as a balloon with 16.7 million dots on them. They represent the colors each can reproduce. One is half inflated (sRGB), the other is twice as inflated (Adobe RGB (1998)). The colorimetric space between the dots in the Adobe RGB display is twice the distance. The differences between R123/G45/B90 and R123/G46/B90 has a higher deltaE value. Is this an issue? It depends on what you're doing and if it is really important to SEE the differences in one value in green in this instance.

If you spend all day working on brides in white wedding dresses, and you need very fine visual separation of colors, an sRGB display is going to be easier to see these values. If you work on more saturated work, then you probably do want to see the extra saturated colors provided in the wide gamut display.

So for the price of an Eizo, get a 2490 and 2690 for probably the save money, work with a dual display. Profile each using the same excellent SpectraView II software and one puck. Use the smaller sRGB display for palettes but when you want to see the differences on subtle images, drag it over to the 2490. Best of both worlds, you might even save some $$.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 10:07:19 AM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2008, 10:07:02 AM »
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Following on digitaldog's thinking in his last paragraph above, I'm about to get an NEC 2690, and plan to keep the cheapo monitor that came with my PC as the second monitor in a dual-monitor setup.  The cheap monitor can be used for web site viewing and previewing how my images will look on the web after conversion to sRGB.  It's also useful for displaying the Photoshop toolbars and palettes, freeing up additional space on the wide-gamut monitor for the photo.

Lisa
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 10:10:22 AM by nniko » Logged

Hellstan
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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2008, 10:15:48 AM »
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What I said (more or less) is both an sRGB and Wide Gamut are ideal, that if you do a lot of very subtle color correction work on lower gamut images, it will be easier to see these subtle differences on a lower gamut unit.

Think of the two displays as a balloon with 16.7 million dots on them. They represent the colors each can reproduce. One is half inflated (sRGB), the other is twice as inflated (Adobe RGB (1998)). The colorimetric space between the dots in the Adobe RGB display is twice the distance. The differences between R123/G45/B90 and R123/G46/B90 has a higher deltaE value. Is this an issue? It depends on what you're doing and if it is really important to SEE the differences in one value in green in this instance.

If you spend all day working on brides in white wedding dresses, and you need very fine visual separation of colors, an sRGB display is going to be easier to see these values. If you work on more saturated work, then you probably do want to see the extra saturated colors provided in the wide gamut display.

So for the price of an Eizo, get a 2490 and 2690 for probably the save money, work with a dual display. Profile each using the same excellent SpectraView II software and one puck. Use the smaller sRGB display for palettes but when you want to see the differences on subtle images, drag it over to the 2490. Best of both worlds, you might even save some $$.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171770\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, Andrew, I already have an Apple 23".
I want the Eizo to find that fine visual separation of half-tones I need especially in B/W.
Reason why I think about the CG211.
Buy another two is not an option : I'd have the impression to become a trader in Wall Street.
Trading images, alright, but still…
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edt
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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2008, 10:59:09 AM »
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Well, Andrew, I already have an Apple 23".
I want the Eizo to find that fine visual separation of half-tones I need especially in B/W.
Reason why I think about the CG211.
Buy another two is not an option : I'd have the impression to become a trader in Wall Street.
Trading images, alright, but still…
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks to all for weighing in.....I just read the above lengthy/enlightening post Andrew refers to on dpreview....many seem to imply that the wide gamut monitors are for "color managed work in Photoshop" .....not sure if I am an exception, but I do a lot of color managed work in Photoshop in aRGB mode but I ALSO do a lot of color managed work in Photoshop where all color manament settings are in sRGB.....for me, I just want the monitor to match the print--if that happens, I am fine. That is my only criteria. I do not want to constantly have to change monitor settings from aRGB to sRGB in addition to the Photoshop/Capture One edit/color management/ settings I already have to change when going back and forth from aRGB for images to be printed on epson and sRGB for prints going to the lab). That being the case, I am about to order the nec2490....but will delay through the afternoon in case I get one last bit of insight!
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Hellstan
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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2008, 11:23:59 AM »
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"CG221 notice :
"EIZO's solution is the ColorEdge CG221: an LCD monitor that covers the Adobe RGB color space. It thus encompasses not only the sRGB color space, widely supported by many computer monitors, operating systems and digital cameras, but also the ISO-coated and US web-coated CMYK color spaces used in printing.

(A) Adobe RGB (white wire frame) encompasses the ISO coated color space (multicolor solid). ( sRGB (white wire frame) does not cover many of the green, cyan, and yellow areas of the ISO coated color space (multicolor solid)."

http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/cg221/features.asp

Is it not the best of both worlds ? I wonder… ponder…      
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 11:25:14 AM by Hellstan » Logged

edt
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2008, 11:44:57 AM »
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"CG221 notice :
"EIZO's solution is the ColorEdge CG221: an LCD monitor that covers the Adobe RGB color space. It thus encompasses not only the sRGB color space, widely supported by many computer monitors, operating systems and digital cameras, but also the ISO-coated and US web-coated CMYK color spaces used in printing.

(A) Adobe RGB (white wire frame) encompasses the ISO coated color space (multicolor solid). ( sRGB (white wire frame) does not cover many of the green, cyan, and yellow areas of the ISO coated color space (multicolor solid)."

http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/cg221/features.asp

Is it not the best of both worlds ? I wonder… ponder…     
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171784\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hellstan, in the spirit of your question...my questions:
1. When my Photoshop color mgmt setting is srgb, and I am optimizing output (portraits, youth sports, events) that will be sent to the lab for printing in their srgb environment--also when optimizing jpegs images for web viewing, I assume I need to view on monitor that is srgb--that I would be disadvantaged if the monitor is wide gamut?
2. When my Photoshop color mgmt setting is argb, and I am optimizizing output to be printed on my epson printer, I assume I am better off with the WIDE gamut monitor?

SUMMARY QUESTION: Would it be true that if my monitor had to be either srgb or wide gamut,--assuming I am unwilling to change a wide gamut monitor setting to srgb mode, back and forth.....that I would be better off with the srgb monitor than the wide gamut/argb one?
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Hellstan
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2008, 11:50:26 AM »
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Hellstan, in the spirit of your question...my questions:
1. When my Photoshop color mgmt setting is srgb, and I am optimizing output (portraits, youth sports, events) that will be sent to the lab for printing in their srgb environment--also when optimizing jpegs images for web viewing, I assume I need to view on monitor that is srgb--that I would be disadvantaged if the monitor is wide gamut?
2. When my Photoshop color mgmt setting is argb, and I am optimizizing output to be printed on my epson printer, I assume I am better off with the WIDE gamut monitor?

SUMMARY QUESTION: Would it be true that if my monitor had to be either srgb or wide gamut,--assuming I am unwilling to change a wide gamut monitor setting to srgb mode, back and forth.....that I would be better off with the srgb monitor than the wide gamut/argb one?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171789\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

edt,
I'm unable to reply to your/my questions.
I just wonder if Bob Cutler, at Graphic-Reseau, in France (one of the very top supplier of pro
post-process equipment) is not right when telling me CG221 is the best solution for someone
working mostly on prints (1/3 color, 2/3 B/W), and wishing to have prints closely matching the screen.
I guess, for working on pictures published on my future website, my Apple sRGB 23" Cinema Display will do the trick, without having a 3-rd   screen in front of my 2   eyes.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 11:51:16 AM by Hellstan » Logged

edt
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2008, 11:57:08 AM »
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edt,
I'm unable to reply to your/my questions.
I just wonder if Bob Cutler, at Graphic-Reseau, in France (one of the very top supplier of pro
post-process equipment) is not right when telling me CG221 is the best solution for someone
working mostly on prints (1/3 color, 2/3 B/W), and wishing to have prints closely matching the screen.
I guess, for working on pictures published on my future website, my Apple sRGB 23" Cinema Display will do the trick, without having a 3-rd   screen in front of my 2   eyes.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171790\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hellstan,
Maybe all this is splitting hairs, maybe if I get the nec 2490 or 2690 or eizo CG19 or CG221 or CG241, perhaps I would be happy with any of them. Because----my 3 requirements are simply 1. match the fuji archive print from my lab 2.match my epson print 3.make jpeg images for optimized web viewing.

cmyk or iso coated etc are all non-issues for me. Important for others, but not for me....based on Andrew's comments above, srgb monitor will likely make my job easier......hope so.

The more I think about it, for my 3 objectives above, I wonder if the benefit of 30" size of the apple cinema display for $1655 might not be an acceptable tradeoff for the  minimal/subtle loss of (I assume) color accuracy...(eizo CG19 is about same price, $1500, better color accuracy but much smaller)...none of the color mgmt gurus ever seem to recommend the ACD in these forums, but users who have them frequently report that they calibrate them easily and are very pleased....
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 12:22:54 PM by edt » Logged
cn15
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2008, 03:35:24 PM »
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edt,
If you are considering a 30" monitor, check out the soon-to-be-released NEC 3090WQXi, 97.8% aRGB, 2560x1600 res, for $2200.

http://www.necdisplay.com/NewsAndMediaCent...a8-873403598c0f

Chuong
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Thomas McConnell
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2011, 10:47:11 AM »
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Thanks all of you guys, lots of helpful information for me in this discussion.
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