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Author Topic: India?  (Read 22307 times)
Andy M
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« on: January 28, 2008, 06:48:01 PM »
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A friend and I have (on a whim) booked to travel to India for 3 weeks from mid-February. Both keen photographers the route we've provisionally marked in the sand is:

Delhi --> Agra --> Varanasi --> Khajuraho --> Bundi --> Udaipur --> Jaipur (we may scrap Jaipur)  --> Pushkar --> Delhi

I'd be very interested to hear if anybody has travelled in these areas, and if so, what were your thoughts?
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astanley
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 10:14:17 PM »
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A friend and I have (on a whim) booked to travel to India for 3 weeks from mid-February. Both keen photographers the route we've provisionally marked in the sand is:

Delhi --> Agra --> Varanasi --> Khajuraho --> Bundi --> Udaipur --> Jaipur (we may scrap Jaipur)  --> Pushkar --> Delhi

I'd be very interested to hear if anybody has travelled in these areas, and if so, what were your thoughts?
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Delhi is amazing in and of itself, if only for the street possibilities.  If you can, have your driver (or hire a driver) to take you down to the Old Delhi area.  Walk around with nothing you would care to lose, save for a few rupees in your pocket.  It will blow you away, and there are some great photo shots down there.

Hit up the India Gate late - 9, 10 pm local - and be amazed at the sheer number of families walking around in the near pitch dark.  

Agra, of course, is great for seeing the Taj.  Last time I went they were very interested to see my camera, but I just carried my PS that day.  Not sure about SLR, no tripods allowed is what I remember from 2006.  Walking around Agra itself is quite nice, with a great mix of people and experiences to be had.  I generally carried some money in my pocket just in case someone wanted some money for a picture.  100 rupees was pretty standard.

Varanasi can be an emotional experience or a waste of time, all depending on the day.

I have never seen Jaipur but it is on my to-do list next time I go.  

A silly question, but have you traveled to a place such as India before?  If not, please consider spending an hour with a Travel Medicine specialist.  Every westerner, save for the odd guy who has spent a lot of time in the "third world" (using the term loosely here) gets sick.  I've been sick twice; one close friend has been sick every time, for 15 trips running.  I took US executives over to India as a part of my old job and many would do the "masculine" thing (no need for meds, or to ask for help when they got sick), but, if you get it, it's a real PITA.  I carried a small box of Nature Valley hard granola bars and a emergency pack of baby wipes -- it could change someone's miserable trip to a bearable one.

Enjoy your trip!!  I can't wait to go back this year.

Cheers,

-Andrew
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 11:45:17 PM »
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I've been to India several times, the most memorable a solo trip by motorcycle.

India is at once a fabulous and impossible country for photography.  It's fabulous because astounding photo opportunities are available everywhere anytime.  It's impossible because it's huge, diverse and very hard on equipment (both hardware and photographer)

Your itinerary is challenging yet doable if you're organized.  Time is extremely valuable.  If you can squeeze more time, by all means do it.

How will you travel? A rail pass might be a very good idea for such a short visit.  You can arrange to travel at night, saving both time and money.

Delhi is a huge, difficult city.  After you arrive,  in one day see Connought Place, The Red Fort and Jama Masjiid/Old Delhi and get outta town.

Agra is a sumptuous banquet of ancient architecture and Indian life.  Allow at least two or three days there.  It's also the tourist destination for westerners and Indians.  Make reservations ahead of time.  If you can squeeze another day to visit Fatehpur Sikri (nearby, overnight there if possible) do it.  Few go there, a welcome change from Agra. A short journey, yet rewarding.

Dawn on the Ganges at the Varanasi ghats is a transforming experience.  I'd rate it at the very top of the scale for both photography and travel.  Set your alarm for 4:00AM and rent a boat. One of the seven holy cities, Varanasi will keep you busy until your hard drives max out.

Khajuraho is a unique experience and its relative peace and quiet will be a welcome relief after the previous destinations.  24 hours there is adequate if you're in a scheduling bind.  Rent a bicycle.  It's big and far more fun alone than with a "guide".

Bundi and Pushkar I've not visited.

Udaipur is fabulous, but a significant journey.  The Lake Palace Hotel is still a bargain, even at $800 a night.  Jaipur is an equally good choice, but more reachable given your other destinations.

Consider Jaisalmer, an ancient silk road walled city that looks lifted from the middle ages.  It's a long way, but I believe they've built an airport now.  That might be bad news, too.  

If you can arrive in Delhi and Depart from Bombay, you'll make better use of your travel time, but the airlines might make this difficult.  It'd be worth a few hundred dollars extra airfare if this can be arranged.

The advice on meds is good.  Be prepared for tummy upsets and you will get a cold, possibly the worst cold you've ever had.  Take appropriate meds with you.

Read "A Fine Balance" by Rohinton Mistry, either before you go or take it with you.

Good shooting!  I'm filled with envy.  India's my second favourite country.
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2008, 12:41:17 AM »
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George Jardine (Adobe) did an interview with Eric Meola last June where Eric talked about his experiences in India among other things.  You can find the interview here: http://idisk.mac.com/george_jardine-Public?view=web

Go to: 20070522 Podcast - Eric Meola and download the .MP4 file

Mike.
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Andy M
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2008, 02:00:43 AM »
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Many thanks for the replies. I'm in a hurry to get to work now, but will reply later.

Briefly; yes I'm aware we're going to be getting 'Delhi Belly' - having travelled SE Asia quite extensively I was hoping I may not feel the full brunt, but it appears I should be expecting a few whizz pops and whizz bags

Again, many thanks - if anybody else has any more information/advice I'd love to hear it
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2008, 08:24:32 AM »
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I know nothing of it.  But if you get to Hyderabad feel free to tell my old job I miss it.
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astanley
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2008, 10:48:51 AM »
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Many thanks for the replies. I'm in a hurry to get to work now, but will reply later.

Briefly; yes I'm aware we're going to be getting 'Delhi Belly' - having travelled SE Asia quite extensively I was hoping I may not feel the full brunt, but it appears I should be expecting a few whizz pops and whizz bags

Again, many thanks - if anybody else has any more information/advice I'd love to hear it
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170513\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A few other quick notes that I thought of this morning...  mostly around Bangalore, where I spent a fair amount of time:

If you like urban photography, Bangalore can be an absolute trip.  Don't go wondering around the Whitefield or similar technology sectors with a camera though; I know our security guys were pretty freakish about people with cameras on the street in front of the building.  Commercial Road is an absolute MUST, as it is a cross between Ginza and Spanish Harlem.  

If you find yourself pining for western style food, I highly suggest any of the Taj or Leela hotels.  You don't have to be staying there to eat there, and the Thai in Bangalore (along with the "burger" at Citrus) or the Chinese at the Taj Mansingh are hard to beat when you've had your max of traditional food.

The Oberoi in Bangalore also has some great food; one restaurant that I cannot remember the name of had this amazing Kerala style cuisine that was unlike any other food I've had in India.  Lots of fish, chicken, and coconut, it was stellar!

If you go to Bangalore, the Corner House on Residency Road, especially on a Friday night, is an amazing sight.  It's also one of the few non-western food locations (e.g. outside of the hotel) where you are perfectly safe eating the food.  (I'm the adventurous type who enjoys eating anything and everything, and I paid dearly for that in Delhi, and have since modified my intake when over in India)  The Magnum Fudge is a must.  Also, the sheer hordes of young adults, Sikhs, Jains, Hindus, you name it, of every type imaginable, congregating outside on scooters is not to be missed.

Like I said before... I cannot wait to go back.  I'm trying to convince my wife to come along, and add a week to the backside of a business trip.  Why?  Because... even though I spent one trip locked down in a hotel when rioting broke out (Rajkumar), India puts a spell over you.  It is a study in impossible dichotomies, things that just don't belong together but do so with such ease... it's a wonderful, amazing place.

Cheers,

-Andrew
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Rob C
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 12:51:37 PM »
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Well, I lived in India for seven years, the house was on the Bay of Bengal, about half way between Calcutta and Madras, and school was in Ootacamund in the Nilgiri Hills, further south.

The main memory of that experience is the train journey home needed twice a year when school broke up. In the compartment, you never put the lights out at night. If you did, you had cockroaches by the million.

Do I miss it? No. Would I go back? No. Why? Because I almost died of food poisoning the first time; because it was possible to bribe doctors to provide obligatory vaccination certificates in lieu of taking the risk of the needle and the shot being less than new.

Yes, that was many years ago.

Was India worth looking at - did it have any sort of beauty? Yes, it was everything the travel shows say about it and then some; the beaches on the Bay of Bengal (at least where I lived) would have driven calendar photographers wild; those fantastic swathes of flat, washed sand on which you could lay down your model with not a footprint in miles. The open, rocky countryside where you would wander past palm trees with the traditional black vase tied up below the V-cut in the trunk where the toddy was being collected, drip by intoxicating drip; the old colonial/empire bungalows and villas already abandoned after ī47 and left to the winds and the monsoon and always, the excitement that your next footfall would be on a cobra. Possibly a bit like parts of the States, then, only the snake having a different pedigree.

What would lead anyone to think anything has changed, other than there are fewer tigers left?

If I may mention the train again: train journeys are not for the faint-hearted or the less than fit. I can remember one train being held up for God alone knows what reason or to what purpose in Nagpur, the temperature climbing up over 110 degrees F in the compartment, the doors wide open in prayer for a breeze that never came. Today, with my heart problems, I would have died.

Also, for anyone other than an Indian to drive is madness. How do you think it would pan out if you happened to hit some kid that just ran into the street as you were passing by? Hell, chances are heīs already in the street - where else could he walk? The same goes for that poor old sacred cow you just twanged with your wing mirrors.  

Beautiful land, I only ever met good people, but at what price?

Rob C
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luong
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 01:06:13 PM »
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What I found the hard way in Varanasi: if you are at the ghats at dawn, trying to take in the mystical atmosphere, you may be  asked to make a donation. Be sure to do so, otherwise you will be incredibly hassled for "photographing ladies bathing" and asked to leave. Even the police will concur. If you made the donation, it will be understood that you are just taking a picture of the big scene. Rather typical of the way things are done. You have to adjust.

One of the highlights of my stay in India was Jodhpur. I was on a tight schedule and after some research thought that this would be the place in Rajasthan I wanted to visit rather than the two cities you listed.  I was not disappointed.
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astanley
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2008, 04:02:11 PM »
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Also, for anyone other than an Indian to drive is madness. How do you think it would pan out if you happened to hit some kid that just ran into the street as you were passing by? Hell, chances are heīs already in the street - where else could he walk? The same goes for that poor old sacred cow you just twanged with your wing mirrors. 

Beautiful land, I only ever met good people, but at what price?

Rob C
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Rob makes a very important point here.  On a motorcycle - I wouldn't worry so much.  Same with a bicycle (although, very few westerners opt for such a mode of transportation).  However - in a car or van in any of the major cities - hitting another car will lead to a fight, and the police will probably side against you; hitting another human or any sacred animal could lead to death (IIRC, a British expat was killed by a mob last year when he hit a bull walking through the streets of Agra).  My company forbade us from driving; most rental cars come with a driver or one can be hired for very, very short money.

I hate sounding like a wet blanket (because I've ignored other people's similar advice about many countries and driving [Japan included; I'm not sure why anyone would tell you not to drive in Japan]), but I'm dead serious with this one...

Cheers,

-Andrew
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stever
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2008, 11:53:21 PM »
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where did the discussion of driving in india come from? Don't!

itenerary looks good

Dehli - old town is fantastic, i think bicycle rickshaws have been eliminated - these were great for photography - walking it is probably bette than taking minibus (but i don't know what these buses look like)

Agra - be sure to go to Fatehpur Sidri, extremely important architectural site.  Taj Mahal is magnificant, and tripods not allowed and monopods probably not eigher.

Varanasi - i recommend both evening and dawn cruise on the Ganges - wide to medium on one body and 70-300 or 100-400 on the other - so much happening.  we had a guide who negotiated the boats, don't know what he did but we got exceptional views.  walking around Varanasi was interesting, but nothing to compare to the ghats from the river (if you only do one i'd recommend dawn)

Khajuraho - the technical quality of the carvings are better than Angkor Wat.  Well worth one full day.  The Son et Lumiere is not bad.  Wife won't let me hang my better prints unless i can come up with acceptable explanation for grandchildren - which i can't.

Bundi - ?

Udiapur - the city palace and the car collection of the maharana are interesting - we stayed outside the city at the Devi Garh (owned by Tata's daughter and one of the most fines hotels in the world) - the countryside is spectacular with small villagers, farmers and oxen, persian wheels for irrigation. Jainist Rankapur temple is some distance, but quite amazing.


Jaipur - Amer (Amber) fort is pretty spectacular  and the Jantar Manatar Observatory is really amazing

Pushkar - ?

you need to do some research on tips ahead of time and carry lots of small bills as everybody has their hand out with varying degrees of agressiveness (i almost tossed a couple porters off a train for demanding a significant multiple of customary)

if you follow the rules of sticking to bottled water (that you open yourself) and beer with no fresh vegatables you will avoid problems  - i always carry Cipro just in case, don't recall using it in Indai (if so only once in 2 weeks0
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sanjaynarayan
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« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2008, 05:40:29 AM »
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sound stuff above...
as i live in Delhi..some 'inside' info-
DELHI-People/life/poverty/joy/colour/festivity, loads of that around Juma Masjid/Chandni Chowk/Lal Quila in the old part of delhi,if you want highrises/malls/nightspots then head for suburb Gurgaon
JAIPUR- standard tourist places like Amer/Hawamahal/jantar mantar or for people stuff around Bapu Market
AGRA- apart from the Taj/Agra Fort/Fatehpur Sikri, markets outside the Taj for 'people' shots and accross the jamuna river for evening shots of the Taj
VARANASI- Try to stay in a riverside hotel for early morning street photography and easy passage to the 'ghats'
PUSHKAR- Always ask women or rather their men before taking pictures , tips help
KHAJURAHO- the temples are tall so use tele lenses for details(erotic!) for better perspective
UDAIPUR- 'point your lens anywhere for a picture' town
Light in india is usually contrasty throughout the day, subtle fill flash helps
Buy some paper plates and glasses at Delhi as hot food and tea is generally safe on the move but not the containers!

www.sanjaynarayan.com
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Rob C
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« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2008, 08:19:48 AM »
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I notice that all the advice that comes out here refers to the more northern areas; there is a hell of a lot more to the country than that well-trodden tourist part.

Those same Nilgiri Hills where I spent some questionable school years, hostage to Christian fundamentalist teachers, is a magical area all of its own. I remember spending a short school holiday in a tea plantation courtesy of a fellow boarderīs father - an experience that makes you think a little about the current craze for teabags: only the dust (and thereīs lots of it) after the good, packaged tea is taken away probably ends up in those little paper packets...a waste not want not, I suppose, with maximisation of profit from those who know no better.

Those Nilgiris go up to 8000 ft; the train up from the plains starts at Metapalayam (if memory serves and the name has not been changed and I can still remember how to spell it) on a three-track system, the central track being a cog system that helps with the climb and descent. It is narrow and passes through beautiful countryside in its climb. Up through the plantations, to the end of the line in Ooty and there you are: England in India; or rather, rural England as was, in India as was.

No snow; it rains quite a bit as you get the edges of both monsoons, the north- eastern one and the south-western one.

Ooty Club was where they invented snooker, or was it billiards? St Stephenīs church had a wonderful old cemetery where you could pick up on the names of those from far away who spent their lives there, never wishing to leave for the grimmer world back west (even then). Dodabetta, the highest peak, where there used to be an old wooden refuge/hut (the Sheiling?) reachable by passing through a Toda village, peoples unique to that tiny little part of the  world and famous for their buffalo... why the over-travelled north?

Yes, it does ring in the nostalgia for me but memory is now better than reality - possibly an age thing?

Which, in the end, brings us to photography. I think there is something somewhat suspect in the lure for photographers; I see no harm in shooting architectural motifs, but I do regret that western photographers and probably far-eastern ones too, have this thing about street photography, the Ganges and all the rest of the baggage that, in the end, comes down to little more than a case of Wow! Look how much better off we are than they are! Your motives might not be that at all, but I wonder if you would have the same appetite for wandering around Watts, Detroit, Harlem, Liberty City or even deepest Glasgow, Birmingham (either) or Paris, picking up on all the charming local customs and qualities of life...

Cheers, and enjoy the trip.

Rob C

Rob C
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luong
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« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2008, 12:41:37 PM »
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> Dehli - old town is fantastic, i think bicycle rickshaws have been eliminated

You mean those Cycle-rickshaws have been prohibited since January 2007 ?


>
Which, in the end, brings us to photography. I think there is something somewhat suspect in the lure for photographers; I see no harm in shooting architectural motifs, but I do regret that western photographers and probably far-eastern ones too, have this thing about street photography, the Ganges and all the rest of the baggage that, in the end, comes down to little more than a case of Wow! Look how much better off we are than they are! Your motives might not be that at all, but I wonder if you would have the same appetite for wandering around Watts, Detroit, Harlem, Liberty City or even deepest Glasgow, Birmingham (either) or Paris, picking up on all the charming local customs and qualities of life...


I am a travel photographer, not a photojournalist. Yet, what's going on on the Ganges is interesting to me because it's been going on for millennia. When I go to Paris, I photograph the old unpractical houses and streets, small bakeries and  street markets, people on bicycles, not modern appartment buildings, supermarkets, and expressways.
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Rob C
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« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2008, 01:20:55 PM »
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> Dehli - old town is fantastic, i think bicycle rickshaws have been eliminated

You mean those Cycle-rickshaws have been prohibited since January 2007 ?
>
Which, in the end, brings us to photography. I think there is something somewhat suspect in the lure for photographers; I see no harm in shooting architectural motifs, but I do regret that western photographers and probably far-eastern ones too, have this thing about street photography, the Ganges and all the rest of the baggage that, in the end, comes down to little more than a case of Wow! Look how much better off we are than they are! Your motives might not be that at all, but I wonder if you would have the same appetite for wandering around Watts, Detroit, Harlem, Liberty City or even deepest Glasgow, Birmingham (either) or Paris, picking up on all the charming local customs and qualities of life...
I am a travel photographer, not a photojournalist. Yet, what's going on on the Ganges is interesting to me because it's been going on for millennia. When I go to Paris, I photograph the old unpractical houses and streets, small bakeries and  street markets, people on bicycles, not modern appartment buildings, supermarkets, and expressways.
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But not, I presume, the down-and-outs, the cripples (professional), those without a bed to call their own.

Rob C
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Andy M
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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2008, 01:26:21 PM »
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Again, thanks for the informative replies

I'm meeting with my travelling partner some time this week so will put forward the recommendations here.

Once I know our 'definitive' route I'll post it here
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Andy M
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 01:33:32 PM »
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One thing I would add; we're going to be travelling on a shoestring budget and so won't be staying at 5 star hotels etc (I have a couple of weeks in Thailand straight after India for this ). We'll also be attempting to make our long journeys on night trains where possible.

One thing that does concern me is my MacBook laptop. I don't want to carry it around as my backpack is already weighty (1Ds 3, 35L, 17-40L, 24-70L, 70-200L 2.8 IS plus the possibility of a 400D).

As we're going to be staying in 'cheap' accommodation I'm a bit worried about leaving it in my room (not dorms). What're peoples thoughts?
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astanley
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 01:49:31 PM »
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One thing I would add; we're going to be travelling on a shoestring budget and so won't be staying at 5 star hotels etc (I have a couple of weeks in Thailand straight after India for this ). We'll also be attempting to make our long journeys on night trains where possible.

One thing that does concern me is my MacBook laptop. I don't want to carry it around as my backpack is already weighty (1Ds 3, 35L, 17-40L, 24-70L, 70-200L 2.8 IS plus the possibility of a 400D).

As we're going to be staying in 'cheap' accommodation I'm a bit worried about leaving it in my room (not dorms). What're peoples thoughts?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171038\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Theft can be a problem, even in the 5 stars (like the Leela et al).   Sometimes Westerners are targeted (according to my security service subscription, which I can't paste here for copyright reasons) because criminals know that the police will be basically helpless and don't always go out of their way for Westerners.  They also heavily admonish against night trains, in any class... for both safety and security reasons.

All that said, I was pretty safe when I've been, and if you don't want it touched, build your life around it (e.g. sleeping on your bag).  My guess is you've done this before in similar countries, just use the same precautions as you would in any southeast Asian country.

Personally, I left nothing of value in my room, save for the safe, and I was in $500 a night joints.  So, everything went everywhere with me, or stayed at my office if I wasn't going to use it at the hotel.  I'd plan on carrying your gear wherever you go... but that is just me.

Cheers,

-Andrew
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Rob C
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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2008, 10:50:48 AM »
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Photographic trips should come back down to earth: take a camera and two or three lenses maximum, no tripod and stuff a computer - the world did very well before them and was, in fact, discovered before they were even invented.  That might surprise some of you folks, but itīs true.

If you want to be a photographer do as photographers always did and use your brains; if you want to show off your purchases or the thickness of your wallet, then take all your toys with you and donīt be surprised if some nasty little boy steals one or two of them! What are we trying to do - create our own Getty in a single trip?

Rob C
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luong
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2008, 12:08:03 PM »
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One thing that does concern me is my MacBook laptop. I don't want to carry it around as my backpack is already weighty (1Ds 3, 35L, 17-40L, 24-70L, 70-200L 2.8 IS plus the possibility of a 400D).

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171038\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Buy two or three hyperdrive space units (recently reviewed on this site) and carry one in your camera bag.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 12:09:01 PM by luong » Logged

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