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Author Topic: When to do Capture Sharpening....  (Read 3306 times)
Tony Pearce
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« on: January 29, 2008, 11:01:29 PM »
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Assuming that I am shooting raw and opening in CS3 via ACR, when should capture sharpening take place. It seems that I have 2 options.:

1) Do it in ACR using the new improved sharpening tool

2) Apply no sharpening at conversion but sharpen in CS3 using e.g PhotoKit Sharpener (capture)

Please note that I am talking about Capture sharpening. I am doing output specific sharpening with Photokit Sharpener further along the workflow pipeline...

Leaving aside the quality of the results of the 2 approaches are they philosophically the same?
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2008, 11:04:01 PM »
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Yep.
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Tony Pearce
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 12:11:46 AM »
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thanks. I think it's all starting to make sense at last.....
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thompsonkirk
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2008, 12:22:48 AM »
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If you have PKSharpener, then I'd recommend capture sharpening AFTER raw conversion on any image that requires a redistribution of pixels - for example, a perspective crop; or a correction for barrel/pincushion distortion or for chromatic aberration.

I tested this in medium-sized prints when the 5D & 24-105L first came out (uncropped images on 17x22 paper).  The FF sensor made any lens problems painfully obvious, & this lens introduced noticeable - but quite correctable - distortion & CA.  

Capture sharpening after these corrections had been made - but before any other PS work - yielded better definition & fewer artifacts, especially in the 'touchy' bottom corners of landscapes & urbanscapes.

If you aren't going to make any corrections that redistribute pixels, then it shouldn't make any difference at which point you capture sharpen.  

Kirk
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Tony Pearce
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2008, 12:37:21 AM »
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OK. If however I use Lightroom as my starting point then the only option for capture sharpening is, I assume, within LR itself?

 I print from CS3 so I can use PKSharpener then of course.
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TMcCulley
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2008, 12:44:30 AM »
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OK. If however I use Lightroom as my starting point then the only option for capture sharpening is, I assume, within LR itself?

 I print from CS3 so I can use PKSharpener then of course.
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You can do the capture sharpening in LR.  As to when you just work your way down the right hand side until you get sharpening.

Tom

PS Did you watch the Lightroom Tutorial?
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Tony Pearce
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2008, 05:53:28 AM »
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Yes I am aware of how to do it in LR. I was trying to confirm my understanding that if Bridge/CS3 was used, one could capture sharpen either at conversion or in CS3 with PKSharpener but, if using LR, the capture sharpening can only be done inside LR.
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sojournerphoto
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2008, 06:42:32 AM »
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Yes I am aware of how to do it in LR. I was trying to confirm my understanding that if Bridge/CS3 was used, one could capture sharpen either at conversion or in CS3 with PKSharpener but, if using LR, the capture sharpening can only be done inside LR.
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You could turn sharpening off in LR and then edit a copy in CS3, using PKS or your preferred approach to do capture sharpening as normal.

Mike
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2008, 08:28:29 AM »
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If you're using the current version of Lightroom, you CAN capture sharpen there quite well OR you can use PK Sharpener but of course don't use both.

Advantage of LR: You simply assign the capture sharpening as metadata (parametric) edits and never burn them into pixels until you export*
Disadvantage is you need to know what settings to use and this is again going back to the issues of visually sharpening. That said, there are excellent tools (alt/Option) overlays for seeing what you'll get at 100% and capture sharpening should be subtle (you're definition and how you accomplish this is different than mine).

Advantage of Photoshop/PKS: You don't need to do anything other than pick the capture type, it does all the rest.
Disadvantage: You've got another layer so the file is larger*.

*Using either metadata or a layer does provide flexibility in not burning the effects onto the pixels. Your choice.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2008, 08:30:14 AM »
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Oh, one other plus for Photoshop. The Output sharpening is based on the Capture Sharpening so, you may find a better fit than doing Capture sharpening in LR, then Output in Photoshop. Doing everything in Photoshop is the best 'fit' for the product although again, unless you really under or over do it in LR with Capture sharpening, you should be fine.
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Andrew Rodney
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TMcCulley
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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2008, 10:07:55 AM »
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Yes I am aware of how to do it in LR. I was trying to confirm my understanding that if Bridge/CS3 was used, one could capture sharpen either at conversion or in CS3 with PKSharpener but, if using LR, the capture sharpening can only be done inside LR.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170920\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think most of us who use LR have mixed feelings about the program.  I really like using it up to the point I have to go to PS and come back.  The disappointments come from what is missing ie good output sharpening, soft proofing, having to remember two sets of complex key combinations, and other small nitpiks

My personal solution is I use LR for everything (including capture sharpening) up to output then I export to PS.  I do not bring the output files back to LR but save them using Bridge according to use.

I guess the answer to your question is output sharpening occurs after Noise reduction/removal and you can do that sequence in either or any combination of both programs.

Tom

PS  It is very easy to forget but LR does not change the image pixals.  It stores the changes as commands in a database that can be applied or reapplied as needed.  Think of it as Adobe Camera Raw using a database.  If you load a raw file into PS the first thing you get is ACR where you can do the same thing as Lightroom's develop module or not depending on your intent.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2008, 10:39:17 AM »
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My personal solution is I use LR for everything (including capture sharpening) up to output then I export to PS.  I do not bring the output files back to LR but save them using Bridge according to use.

I work in a similar fashion but do let the edited images get stored in the database so I can find them. But once I go into Photoshop, I'm done using LR for any image processing. I like to print from LR but soft proofing would go a long way towards letting me do a lot more work within that environment.
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Andrew Rodney
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