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Author Topic: The new ALPA 12 MAX  (Read 16947 times)
pmw
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2008, 08:37:39 AM »
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The viewfinder in the Alpa materials is the Leica Universal Wide-Angle Viewfinder M. It's designed for the Tri-Elmar M and covers 16mm, 18mm, and 21mm for 24x36, which translates to 23mm, 26mm and 30mm if you use a 37x49mm chip.

The Leica Viewfinder for 21/24/28 mm Lenses is another option (translates to 30/34/40mm on the 37x49 chips).
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j.miller
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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2008, 08:42:37 AM »
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Mort,
     The finder you mention is the LEICA UNIVERSAL WIDE-ANGLE VIEWFINDER M. It is designed for use with the recently released Leica Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH.

The Leica Universal Wide-Angle Viewfinder M has brightline frames for the following 35mm focal lengths: 16mm, 18mm, 21mm, 24mm, and 28mm. This takes into account the Tri-Elmar-M lens being used on both a full-frame 35mm camera (M7 or MP), as well as the new M8, which has a smaller sensor, requiring a factor of 1.33X. This explains the intermediate focal lengths found on the finder.

Here are the approximate, 35mm angle of view specs from the finder settings: (diagonal, horizontal, vertical)

at 16mm: 107°, 97°, 74°
at 18mm: 100°, 90°, 67°
at 21mm: 90°, 80°, 59°
at 24mm: 84°, 74°, 53°
at 28mm: 75°, 65°, 46°

I have found the brightline frames in the Universal Wide-Angle Viewfinder M to correspond nicely to several focal lengths available from ALPA, Schneider, and Rodenstock. In addition, it has a convenient parallax compensation dial that enables adjustment of the frame to the focusing distance in five steps. It also incorporates an illuminated spirit level, along with optionally available, screw-in diopter correction lenses.

I believe it sells for approx. $850-$900

I have yet to see a single picture of the new ALPA 0° - 6° continouously adjustable tilt adapter anywhere on ALPA's site. Unless some one has some sneak-peek photos from Focus on Imaging, we are probably going to have to wait just a bit.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

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Does anybody know anything more about the Leica Multi-Viewfinder they show on some of their product photos? I've Googled it and come up blank. I presume it's a zoom finder, so I'm wondering what focal range it covers. Also, this viewfinder has two windows on the lens-facing side. Is one of them for a built-in meter? And finally, I'm wondering whether it's being sold new, or whether it's only available on the used market. Anybody have any details?

As for Alpa's new tilt mechanism, I've been searching for photos of it as well. It doesn't seem to show up in any of the images PdF pointed to.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184636\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:59:06 AM by j.miller » Logged
Mort54
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2008, 09:54:35 AM »
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Jordan and PMW - Thanks.

Jordan, if I understand correctly, the Leica accessory viewfinders have a fixed field of view with selectable brightlines to correspond to different focal lengths. I'd be more interested in a viewfinder with a  true optically ZOOMABLE field of view that can handle from wide to moderate telephoto (say from 35mm up to 150 mm Schneider or Rodenstock lenses, i.e. 24mm to 105mm equivalent on a 37 x 49 digital sensor). Does the Linhof multifocus viewfinder fit the bill for that? I've never found anybody who could tell me if the Linhof has a true optically zoomed field of view, or if it simply extends the length of the barrel and constricts the field of view in that manner. Are you familiar with the Linhof viewfinder?

Regards,
Mort.
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2008, 10:56:26 AM »
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Jordan and PMW - Thanks.

Jordan, if I understand correctly, the Leica accessory viewfinders have a fixed field of view with selectable brightlines to correspond to different focal lengths. I'd be more interested in a viewfinder with a  true optically ZOOMABLE field of view that can handle from wide to moderate telephoto (say from 35mm up to 150 mm Schneider or Rodenstock lenses, i.e. 24mm to 105mm equivalent on a 37 x 49 digital sensor). Does the Linhof multifocus viewfinder fit the bill for that? I've never found anybody who could tell me if the Linhof has a true optically zoomed field of view, or if it simply extends the length of the barrel and constricts the field of view in that manner. Are you familiar with the Linhof viewfinder?

Regards,
Mort.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184679\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I used to have the older Linhof viewfinder and all it did to change focal lengths was extend. It wasn't an optical zoom. The newer ones are probably the same.

Pete
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Christopher Arnoldi
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« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2008, 02:20:54 PM »
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I used to have the older Linhof viewfinder and all it did to change focal lengths was extend. It wasn't an optical zoom. The newer ones are probably the same.

Pete
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm planning to buy the Mark Vb Director's viewfinder

[a href=\"http://www.filmtools.com/marvdirview.html]http://www.filmtools.com/marvdirview.html[/url]

with the Mark V Finder Wide Angle Lens

http://www.filmtools.com/marvfinwidan.html

Then I have 35 mm aquivalent focal length from 10 mm to 200 mm.
What's your opinion about that?

Christopher
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 02:21:58 PM by Christopher Arnoldi » Logged
Mort54
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« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2008, 04:00:24 PM »
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I'm planning to buy the Mark Vb Director's viewfinder

http://www.filmtools.com/marvdirview.html

with the Mark V Finder Wide Angle Lens

http://www.filmtools.com/marvfinwidan.html

Then I have 35 mm aquivalent focal length from 10 mm to 200 mm.
What's your opinion about that?

Christopher
Hi Christopher. I like the idea, and in fact had looked at it roughly 6 months ago. The main questions I still had on that approach after I had looked at it for awhile were:

(1) How to attach the finder to the camera body such that it is properly aligned with the optical axis. I called the manufacturer to try to find out if the body was a true cylinder, which would allow various forms of clamps to be used. But they couldn't tell me if it was a true cylinder, or a tapered tube, which would make things more difficult. I didn't want to buy something and then have to pay to have a precision mount machined.

(2) Is the Mark Vb a true optical zoom. It certainly looks like an optical zoom, but I called the company and couldn't find anybody that could give me a straight answer. I currently have a Kirsch directors viewfinder, and it looks a lot like the Mark Vb (only smaller), and it is NOT an optical zoom. At longer focal lengths, it's like looking thru a soda straw, and pretty much sucks.

(3) The final issue I had with it is there's no way to adjust for parallax. But for my kind of landscape shooting, I convinced myself this probably wasn't worth worrying about. However, I've mentioned it just in case it's an issue for your kind of shooting.
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bryanyc
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2008, 04:15:38 PM »
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I'm planning to buy the Mark Vb Director's viewfinder

http://www.filmtools.com/marvdirview.html

with the Mark V Finder Wide Angle Lens

http://www.filmtools.com/marvfinwidan.html

Then I have 35 mm aquivalent focal length from 10 mm to 200 mm.
What's your opinion about that?

Christopher
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

does it have a hot shoe?  If not it would be hard to attach it to the camera.  there are a couple of director viewfinders and I have been interested in them in the past.

Voightlander makes a nice small lookdown finder with interchangeable elements for 21, 24 and perhaps another focal length.  It is nice to use but tiny.

I am not a big fan of the Alpa viewfinder as it is so super wide and quite heavy.  Does rotate vertical and horz from a fixed position: something you can't say for the leica or voightlander.
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Mort54
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« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2008, 04:18:18 PM »
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does it have a hot shoe?  If not it would be hard to attach it to the camera.  there are a couple of director viewfinders and I have been interested in them in the past.

Voightlander makes a nice small lookdown finder with interchangeable elements for 21, 24 and perhaps another focal length.  It is nice to use but tiny.

I am not a big fan of the Alpa viewfinder as it is so super wide and quite heavy.  Does rotate vertical and horz from a fixed position: something you can't say for the leica or voightlander.
It does not have a hot shoe, hence my comments above about needing some kind of bracket to align it to the camera optical axis. Director's viewfinders are basically designed to be hand held by a director so he/she can preview a shot.
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bryanyc
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« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2008, 04:37:05 PM »
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It does not have a hot shoe, hence my comments above about needing some kind of bracket to align it to the camera optical axis. Director's viewfinders are basically designed to be hand held by a director so he/she can preview a shot.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184762\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

right.  hard to frame accurately for a shot if not correctly mounted.
I like this new universal leica finder with the distance adjustments.  Always bugged me that the framelines in the leica were made accurate for close distance where only 10% of shots are made and thus incorrect for the other 90 percent of shots.  Couldn't believe that when I got my m6: no one had mentioned it to me and I found out when I got the film back and said: hey wait a minute....

This new alpa may be the best thing for architecture and stitching yet (though I do want to see the cambo wide RS if pictures of it ever appear).  It appears that  it has a disengage-able clutch so that you  don't have to slowly winch the shift up and down.  Also, it may allow you to mount the camera on its side so that you could shift the back up and down and the front sideways: which could be useful if you didn't want to use the odd tripod foot and wanted to stitch verticals with the lens fixed.

I haven't calculated it yet but I wonder how much the shift is vs. how much the square ground glass shows that Alpa currently produces (for previewing the entire image before shifting).  I have the older 6x9 only glass for my SWA.
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Christopher Arnoldi
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« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2008, 04:45:39 PM »
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Hi Mort54,

since I shoot with a Sinar p3 my only problem is to find the right distance from the objekt and the right lens to shoot with. Once built up the camera, I have live view to get the right position. So camera mount and parallax are not an issue for me.

When I have the director's viewfinder I can tell if it is a true optical zoom. I hope it's better than the Alpa viewfinder at long focal length.

I looked at the Voigtlander viewfinder, too. But they are 2:3 and I need 4:5. And you need one viewfinder for each lens. Also there are not the equivalent focal length available for my lenses 24mm (on 35mm camera >16mm), 35mm (>24mm), 60mm (>41mm), 80mm (55mm), 120mm (>83mm)

The Linhof viewfinder is even more expensive than the Alpa viewfinder.

I also looked at a "soup zoom lens" with focal length from 18 - 200 for my EOS 5D to use as viewfinder, but there are only zooms for APS-C cameras with that focal length.

Christopher
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 05:11:51 PM by Christopher Arnoldi » Logged
bryanyc
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« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2008, 10:07:17 PM »
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Hi Mort54,

since I shoot with a Sinar p3 my only problem is to find the right distance from the objekt and the right lens to shoot with. Once built up the camera, I have live view to get the right position. So camera mount and parallax are not an issue for me.

When I have the director's viewfinder I can tell if it is a true optical zoom. I hope it's better than the Alpa viewfinder at long focal length.

I looked at the Voigtlander viewfinder, too. But they are 2:3 and I need 4:5. And you need one viewfinder for each lens. Also there are not the equivalent focal length available for my lenses 24mm (on 35mm camera >16mm), 35mm (>24mm), 60mm (>41mm), 80mm (55mm), 120mm (>83mm)

The Linhof viewfinder is even more expensive than the Alpa viewfinder.

I also looked at a "soup zoom lens" with focal length from 18 - 200 for my EOS 5D to use as viewfinder, but there are only zooms for APS-C cameras with that focal length.

Christopher
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184768\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, the Voightlander viewfinder I was  referring to is called the right angle finder and has  attachments for 15, 21 and  24 mm perspectives  (on 35mm) and,  other than its proportions,  might be worth looking  at.  I have mine taped on the  sides to change the crop.
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jmboss
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« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2008, 04:33:13 PM »
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I have yet to see a single picture of the new ALPA 0° - 6° continouously adjustable tilt adapter anywhere on ALPA's site. Unless some one has some sneak-peek photos from Focus on Imaging, we are probably going to have to wait just a bit.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
DTG
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184667\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jordan,

I just received this note and photo of the Alpa Tilt Adapter this morning:

Dear Mr. Bossuyt

Below you will find a picture of  the prototype of our tilt/swing adapter (shown at the "Photo Plus" show in October 07). The serial adapter (tilt AND swing - depending on how you ut it to the camera; it fits ALL ALPA 12 models in all four directions [up/down tilting, left/right swinging]) will have a modified mechanism for the movements (0 - 6°).

Delivery will begin in the best case in June 2008 and in the worst case end of September 2008 - the manufacturing of the ALPA 12 MAX has a higher priority because we have got much more orders for this new camera than for our tilt/swing adapter (may be many people have not yet fully realized what they can do with this item...). By the way: because the tilt adapter adds 34mm to the flange focal distance we have to take away these 34mm elsewhere (otherwise you couldn't reach "infinity") - that's why we are offering all Schneider lenses of 80mm focal length and more (= 80, 90, 100, 120, 150, 180, 210 and 250mm) in a new "short barrel" version; only they (= only "short barrel" lenses) can be used with our tilt/swing back adapter.

Please do not hesitate to ask us any further questions concerning our cameras.

Best regards,

the ALPAs


[attachment=5778:attachment]


ALPA Capaul & Weber Ltd.
Neptunstrasse 96, POB 1858
CH-8032 Zurich, Switzerland
Phone: ++41-44-383 92 22
Fax: ++41-44-382 01 80

alpa@alpa.ch
www.alpa.ch
www.alpavision.ch
__________________________________________________

Am 27.03.2008 um 22:18 schrieb Joseph M Bossuyt:

Hello Alpa,
 
Do you have any pictures of your new 0 to 6 Degree Tilt Adapter?
 
Thank you.
 
Best Regards,
 
Joe Bossuyt
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 04:38:14 PM by jmboss » Logged
rainer_v
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« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2008, 09:13:34 AM »
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so it only tilts horizontal? or is it rotatable?
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rainer viertlböck
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pmw
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« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2008, 10:01:51 AM »
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The Alpa mount is square so you can probably mount the adapter for either tilt or swing.
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bryanyc
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« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2008, 10:02:38 AM »
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so it only tilts horizontal? or is it rotatable?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185190\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It can tilt forward or, when fit back on the camera at 90 degrees, sideways.  Like a lens board which it is a very fancy and expensive version thereof.  Only with specially mounted lenses 80 and beyond.  

Question is, do you have to use those lenses only with this tilting adaptor from then on?  They have extension tubes which might be a solution.   But basically, very limited.  On the other hand it is also a tilting extention tube for closeups with non adapted lenses.

Arca Swiss on their new camera has the tilt built into the body.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 10:08:13 AM by bryanyc » Logged
j.miller
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« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2008, 10:19:26 AM »
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Bryanyc,
     The ALPA 34mm Multi-Use Macro adapter (#450010034) ( link) can be used with the specially mounted, short-barrel lenses, to allow for proper, infinity focus.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

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It can tilt forward or, when fit back on the camera at 90 degrees, sideways.  Like a lens board which it is a very fancy and expensive version thereof.  Only with specially mounted lenses 80 and beyond. 

Question is, do you have to use those lenses only with this tilting adaptor from then on?  They have extension tubes which might be a solution.   But basically, very limited.  On the other hand it is also a tilting extention tube for closeups with non adapted lenses.

Arca Swiss on their new camera has the tilt built into the body.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185201\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:58:35 AM by j.miller » Logged
rainer_v
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« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2008, 11:03:44 AM »
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It can tilt forward or, when fit back on the camera at 90 degrees, sideways.  Like a lens board which it is a very fancy and expensive version thereof.  Only with specially mounted lenses 80 and beyond. 

Question is, do you have to use those lenses only with this tilting adaptor from then on?  They have extension tubes which might be a solution.   But basically, very limited.  On the other hand it is also a tilting extention tube for closeups with non adapted lenses.

Arca Swiss on their new camera has the tilt built into the body.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185201\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hm.
this does not convince me.

i like the alpa system and even more how good these cameras are made, but i dont understand their politic. still there is no sliding back, which is for me the most essential tool for an architecture camera.  i dont like optical viewers for this kind of work and i dont like also the alternative, the permanent exchange of a mate screen with the back and vice versa,- more if i have to do this in complicate environments.
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rainer viertlböck
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schaubild
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« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2008, 01:26:45 PM »
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I have taken literally hundreds of analog and digital shots with the tilt adapter and a Digitar 120 short barrel lens in the last few months.

The adapter is mounted on the camera back and as correctly already mentioned can be turned because of the square Alpa mount. This allows tilts in all four directions.
Regarding the f11 "limitation" for digital images, such an adapter really makes sense with the 120mm. It is sometimes surprising how much sharpness you can get even with f5.6. The adapter gives you a lot more freedom in image composition.
 
A 34mm extension tube is required for short barrel lenses when you don't have a tilt adapter.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 01:31:12 PM by schaubild » Logged
adammork
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« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2008, 03:46:22 PM »
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  i dont like optical viewers for this kind of work and i dont like also the alternative, the permanent exchange of a mate screen with the back and vice versa,- more if i have to do this in complicate environments.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185211\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Rainer,

You will get use to it    - I exchange screen/back maybe 50 times or more a day, It's not a problem, at least not for me.
I admit, It was scary the first couple a weeks, but now it's just a natural part of the workflow.

During the shoot I have a padded Lovepro lens-bag attached to the tripod - here I have the back ,and the air-blower, when it's not on the ALPA's - I find this a bit easier than putting the back, back in the case all the time.

Hope you are doing fine  

Very best,
Adam
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rainer_v
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« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2008, 05:40:24 PM »
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Dear Rainer,

You will get use to it    -

Hope you are doing fine   

Very best,
Adam
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hope you + T.E. are doing fine also.....

brgds
rainer
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 05:41:39 PM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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