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Author Topic: Michaels comments about MFD  (Read 36496 times)
mcfoto
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« on: February 06, 2008, 06:21:35 AM »
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Hi
I found MR comments interesting about this year especially MFD & that 22mp is on the way out? But who will survive in the next year? What do you think.
Denis
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 12:54:48 PM by mcfoto » Logged

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thsinar
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2008, 06:41:46 AM »
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hi Denis,

where? Sorry did not find.

Thierry

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Hi
I found MR comments interesting about this year especially MFD & that 22mp is on the way out? But who will survive in the next year? What do you think.
Denid
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172685\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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brumbaer
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2008, 06:53:41 AM »
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It's in  here

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/tea-leaves.shtml

More interesting is what happened to the MF/Canon comparison/test whatever hinted at in the Hy6 review.
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michael
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2008, 07:02:50 AM »
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It looks at the moment as if that studio comparison will not see appear. The reason is simply that my associate, who was working on it with me, had an almost month-long shooting assignment immediately afterward, then came the holidays, other writing priorities, and now a major trip to Asia that begins next week.

If it appears it won't be until some time in March I'm afraid.

Michael
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brumbaer
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2008, 07:38:30 AM »
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It looks at the moment as if that studio comparison will not see appear. The reason is simply that my associate, who was working on it with me, had an almost month-long shooting assignment immediately afterward, then came the holidays, other writing priorities, and now a major trip to Asia that begins next week.

If it appears it won't be until some time in March I'm afraid.

Michael
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Thanks for the info Michael.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2008, 07:45:59 AM »
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Hi
I found MR comments interesting about this year especially MFD & that 22mp is on the way out?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172685\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well Id prefer a 1600 ISO 22mp MFDB to a 39mp especially if it was $10k or less - and I would prefer it to a canon

As for the 'compact race getting silly' well I dont know any compact camera that can rival the look  of a good scan from my contax T2 yet or my great uncles leica from 1950 that I inherited !

S
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2008, 07:49:25 AM »
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Thanks for YOUR info, Stefan!

Thierry

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Thanks for the info Michael.
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Dinarius
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2008, 09:41:08 AM »
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Very interesting article.

Here's what I wrote on the thread about Sony's new sensor, and I stand over it:

"This confirms my view that the market will soon divide between high-end DSLRs on one side and only the best MFDBs (by which I mean multi-shot and lots of pixels) on the other. All the in-between MFDBs are dead in the water, new or second-hand, in my view."

I note that Michael coyly avoided speculating as to who he thinks will fall by the wayside.  

As I imply above, I believe that Hasselblad and Sinar (because of their multi-shot technology amongst other things) will be two of those left standing, at least.

I certainly hope so! I shoot mostly fine art catalogues and multi-shot is now regarded pretty much the museum and gallery standard worldwide. In addition, I'm about to take delivery of a Hassie 39Mp MS, so they'd better hang around!  

D.
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Quentin
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2008, 10:51:22 AM »
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.

The warm blanket feeling that should comfort us all is that the current high end gear from Canon, Nikon and digital back companies along with the remaining MF cameras on the market have the huge potential of providing the same quality we see today to years from now, regardless of which manufacturers are still standing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Asuming 60mp backs are annouced from later this year and 39mp or so becomes the new MF "entry level".  One has to ask, who really needs  more than 39mp?  Who "needs" 60mp because 39mp just doesn't cut it?  

I am already a generation behind with a 22mp MF camera that can produce detailed 24 x 36" prints, so I am in no rush to move up a gear.  And as you imply, if we get off the ridiculous merrygoround and step back for a moment, I suspect most of us would be better off spending our time on photography and not spending more money on the diminishing returns of the "new, improved" kit that the manufacturers have to persade us to buy for their own, not our, reasons.

Quentin
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Dinarius
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2008, 11:27:26 AM »
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And as you imply, if we get off the ridiculous merrygoround and step back for a moment, I suspect most of us would be better off spending our time on photography and not spending more money on the diminishing returns of the "new, improved" kit that the manufacturers have to persade us to buy for their own, not our, reasons.

Quentin
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I totally agree. Last week I shot 50 sheets of 4x5 on my 30 year old Sinar P for one of my museum clients.

I sincerely hope that I won't have reason to upgrade the Hasselblad for a long time.

D.
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woof75
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2008, 12:22:56 PM »
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I didn't realize this was being talked about here, I posted this initially on the about this site section, anyway, here goes:
Michael, I strongly disagree with your assessment that lower pixel count digital backs are becoming irrelevant because the pixel count increases of digital SLR's. As you say earlier in your article, it's about time people stop worrying about pixel counts and start thinking about quality and in that regard digital backs give a very different look than a DSLR. A 22 MP DSLR is about as different from a 22MP digital back as a 16MP DSLR is from a back, it's not the pixel count that you get a back for (though it can be useful) it's the different look. I'd be surprised if you didn't agree.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2008, 01:13:24 PM »
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Well Id prefer a 1600 ISO 22mp MFDB to a 39mp especially if it was $10k or less - and I would prefer it to a canon

+1

Lack of high ISO capability is the only thing which lets MFDBs down for me, otherwise I could and would use them for everything (I don't do sports photography).
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2008, 01:22:58 PM »
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Hi
I think Phase One will still be here because they are the leaders in long exposure ( one hour ) & this sets them apart from the rest of the MFD makers. How they work with Mamiya is going to be interesting. I still think Phase could rework the ZD camera & make a ZDII verson. If done well this could compete with the DSLR market if priced well. A 39 MP chip would be a must due to the 22-24 mp in the DSLR market. I also feel that Hasselblad is in good shape as they have branded themselves well & are big in the rental market. With the Hy6 I think this camera will also grow in the rental market. Having shot with all three cameras I feel the Hy6 is the best body on the market, there view finder is amazing! The one advantage Mamiya has is a low price point except for there new lenses & they do have a 28mm that works with any MFD back that fits the AFD. I am looking forward to the new Mamiya body which will be shown next month.
Denis
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2008, 01:42:22 PM »
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One has to ask, who really needs  more than 39mp?  Who "needs" 60mp because 39mp just doesn't cut it?  [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172744\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Aditionally one must consider - who can actually shoot 60mp of actual resolution

-no one handheld at below 500/s for sure

one will just be able to see shake misfocussing and lense problems better

The MF makers need to skip resolution worries and get thier usability up

I love my D3 - the screen - the live view -  the in camera jpgs, the ISO, the 28 shift lens, the 1.4 lenses

The fact that I have almost had to stop carrying lights on simple assigments !

The last thing I worry about with my Blad and 22mp is the resolution

The blad does of course have its place - the look - the synch speed

There has been minimal comment on Mark Tucker binning his MF kit (see the FS section) - surely a year ago this would have occupied millions of pixels of chatter

S
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KevinA
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2008, 01:43:44 PM »
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Do we as photographers make rational decisions when buying gear? Are we not always looking for the extra something wether we need it or not. I keep deciding I'm going to get a MF back, I think the files look wonderful etc. But like today would I of got the variety I got with a MFB if I had used that and not a 1DsmkII, probably not, I still intend to get a MFB even though the "35mm" style of camera better fits in with most of my work. Have I figured out how to make the extra money spent into extra profit? nope, I can't see how I can.
 I just need to be somewhere with a good deal on a MFB when my heart is ruling my head and I'll buy one, would I buy 60mp, yep!
I'm a photographer that's what I do.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2008, 01:49:36 PM »
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There has been minimal comment on Mark Tucker binning his MF kit (see the FS section) - surely a year ago this would have occupied millions of pixels of chatter

S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I was astonished by the almost silence regarding the above mentioned as well.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2008, 02:37:05 PM »
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I was astonished by the almost silence regarding the above mentioned as well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I thought about it too when I saw the for sale add posted.....  But hasn't he gone back and forth a few times with cameras and platforms?  Wish he was still a member here and that he'd give us his rationale for the switch.
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klane
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2008, 03:06:49 PM »
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Im not really sure sure why these discussions come up.... 35mm and mf are 2 totally different formats. Each will always have its place, besides based on everthing ive seen most 35mm lenses are out resolved by the 21mp sensor on the 1ds3, and why does everyone suddenly care about sony? seriously the mp race is getting absolutely stupid.
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TMARK
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2008, 04:07:28 PM »
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I was astonished by the almost silence regarding the above mentioned as well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think what Mark chooses to own is only relevant to people who shoot in the same or similar style.  Mark's stuff is great but he doesn't need a back to shoot it.  35mm is fine.  He doesn't need the resolution and he doesn't need the lenses/look unless he wants it.  He can also rent anything he wants or needs for a shoot, so who is to say what he is actually shooting with as opposed to owning.  

If landscape, arch., product, highend fashion, and beauty photogs were selling of their Phase/Sinar/Leaf/Hass backs, then there would be serious discussions with people devoting much to much time to the "debate".
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Anthony R
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 04:15:42 PM »
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I think what Mark chooses to own is only relevant to people who shoot in the same or similar style.  Mark's stuff is great but he doesn't need a back to shoot it.  35mm is fine.  He doesn't need the resolution and he doesn't need the lenses/look unless he wants it.  He can also rent anything he wants or needs for a shoot, so who is to say what he is actually shooting with as opposed to owning. 

If landscape, arch., product, highend fashion, and beauty photogs were selling of their Phase/Sinar/Leaf/Hass backs, then there would be serious discussions with people devoting much to much time to the "debate".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Exactly. Thank you for writing that I so I had to type less.
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