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Author Topic: Michaels comments about MFD  (Read 35623 times)
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #100 on: February 10, 2008, 11:43:22 AM »
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I just took a look at Sinar and Leaf's offerings and was shocked that they are still only selling backs with 22MP sensors.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sinar has had a 33MP back out for years. The difference between 33 and 39 is marginal. If you search this forum, you will find detailed discussion of the relative merits of these two sensors. Sinar also has multishot backs, if you need huge files.

Someone else already posted correction re Leaf.

Please check before posting rubbish!
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James R Russell
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« Reply #101 on: February 10, 2008, 01:54:38 PM »
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Leaf AFi brochure

22, 28 and 33 MP and I recommend testing the 33MP Vs 39MP sensors before discarding the former. It is the only sensor at the moment that lets you exploit the resolution of the Schneider AF-D lenses...

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yair,

How do you test the HY6 digital lenses with anything but a Dalsa sensor?  I thought Sinar and Leaf were the only people that had backs for this camera?

BTW:  I like the look of the  HY6 in black, is this an option?

James Russell
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samuel_js
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« Reply #102 on: February 10, 2008, 03:00:00 PM »
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Yair,

How do you test the HY6 digital lenses with anything but a Dalsa sensor?  I thought Sinar and Leaf were the only people that had backs for this camera?

BTW:  I like the look of the  HY6 in black, is this an option?

James Russell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good question. I suppose they change the mount the 39 mpx back and modify it to make test and comparisons. Of course they won't let these secrets out...
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yaya
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« Reply #103 on: February 10, 2008, 03:31:32 PM »
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Since the Sinar and the Leaf are the only backs that work with the HY6/ AFi camera, it is obvious that the Dalsa is the only sensor working with the new lenses (through an integrated body).

However there are lens adapters made by ALPA and Rollei so if someone wants to really test side-by-side....

Yair
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James R Russell
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« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2008, 03:56:08 PM »
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Since the Sinar and the Leaf are the only backs that work with the HY6/ AFi camera, it is obvious that the Dalsa is the only sensor working with the new lenses (through an integrated body).

However there are lens adapters made by ALPA and Rollei so if someone wants to really test side-by-side....

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173806\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


wouldn't it be easier to test different backs/sensors with this?

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hcubell
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« Reply #105 on: February 10, 2008, 04:02:14 PM »
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Leaf AFi brochure

22, 28 and 33 MP and I recommend testing the 33MP Vs 39MP sensors before discarding the former. It is the only sensor at the moment that lets you exploit the resolution of the Schneider AF-D lenses...

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If he needs a wide angle lens, as he said, is he not out of luck with the Hy6? Is there anything wider than 40mm available(or announced with a firm shipping date)?
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Quentin
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« Reply #106 on: February 10, 2008, 04:07:01 PM »
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I'm going to check out the MF stuff at Focus on Imaging, which is always strong in the pro MF sector.

Quentin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
AndrewDyer
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« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2008, 04:08:49 PM »
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22, 28 and 33 MP and I recommend testing the 33MP Vs 39MP sensors before discarding the former. It is the only sensor at the moment that lets you exploit the resolution of the Schneider AF-D lenses...

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Yair.
I was wondering what you meant by your statement.
As you know, I am very happy with my Dalsa / Aptus 22 sensor, so would be interested to know
why a 33MP sensor would exploit the the resolution of these lenses more than a 39MP sensor.
Is 39MP too much? or is there some other feature of the sensor that brings you to that conclusion?
If so, can you elaborate on what the test was?
I am not having a go at you mate, but would find it interesting to know.
Thanks
Andrew
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yaya
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« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2008, 04:18:49 PM »
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If he needs a wide angle lens, as he said, is he not out of luck with the Hy6? Is there anything wider than 40mm available(or announced with a firm shipping date)?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173812\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In his post the OP said "I just took a look at Sinar and Leaf's offerings and was shocked that they are still only selling backs with 22MP sensors."

So I replied with a correction....

To your question the 40mm Super Angulon is currently the widest besides the 30mm Distagon fisheye.

Of course the AFi 7 back can be used on a WA camera with lenses as wide as 24mm; in addition a non-AFi Leaf back can be used on an H1/2 or a Contax with 35mm or on the AFDII with the 28mm

Yair
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thsinar
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« Reply #109 on: February 10, 2008, 05:47:04 PM »
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I don't know who told you this, but it is years that Sinar has 33 MPx backs, not only one but 3 models: eMotion 75, eMotion 75 LV (live video) and eVolution 75H (multishot).

As said by Yair, I would suggest to compare a 39 MPx with the 33 MPx.

Best regards,
Thierry

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I just took a look at Sinar and Leaf's offerings and was shocked that they are still only selling backs with 22MP sensors.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #110 on: February 10, 2008, 06:39:44 PM »
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not quite, James.

Thierry

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wouldn't it be easier to test different backs/sensors with this?


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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« Reply #111 on: February 10, 2008, 08:08:05 PM »
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not quite, James.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That's a shame because that's a pretty one, dressed in black and all.

So, nobody has ever put anything but a Leaf or a Sinar back on a Rolliflex hy6?

JR
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marc gerritsen
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« Reply #112 on: February 10, 2008, 09:49:14 PM »
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http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2005/03/66898

interesting article,
reading that for some 144 megapixel is where it is at

marc
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godtfred
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« Reply #113 on: February 11, 2008, 08:49:46 AM »
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.......and Land Rover would be owned by a company based in India....
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NicholasR
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« Reply #114 on: February 11, 2008, 10:10:32 AM »
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http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2005/03/66898

interesting article,
reading that for some 144 megapixel is where it is at

marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173885\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As a previous owner of a scanback, I can tell you with assurity, this is not 'where it is at'.  Nor where it is going for that matter.
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TechTalk
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« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2008, 02:16:35 PM »
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I have had it privately suggested to me that prior statements I have made, regarding Phase One's strong desire to find a buyer to sell the company to prior to 2006, were exaggerated or false. I'm not sure why anyone would find it objectionable that Phase One actively sought to sell the company. Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad have all had mergers and acquisitions and there is no shame in that. In fact, it can be quite healthy for a business.

In any event, some may find this April 2005 interview interesting. The article below was translated from the original danish and given to me by an industry friend some time ago. I have provided a link for those that are fluent in danish and wish to read the original article or correct any of the translation.

Interview Article Link

Interview Article below from Computerworld DK

The Danish IT-company Phase One was at one time created in order to be sold at a later date, and that vision now is on the way to being completed.

Today several years' deficits have turned to million surpluses, nobody is bigger than Phase One in digital backs for professional photographers, and the time for a sale approaches.

“The Whole logic with developing and creating the technology in Phase One has always been with reference to a sale of the company”, Henrik Håkonsson, managing director, Phase One says.

Phase One is owned by 3i, Kirkbi, Danish-Erhvervsinvestering, Spar Bank Nord and Mikael Konnerup's investment company Dico, who is the greatest shareholder.

The turnover in Phase One rose by 28 percent last year to 203 million crowns, while the surplus was doubled. The future depends on the company's ability to maintain its market share at 50 percent.

“We have never believed that we had to develop cameras. Phase One cannot only exploit the technology that we have, but eight out of ten of the world's leading digital advertising photographers work with us or Hasselblad/Imacon, and that carries great weight”, says Henrik Håkonsson.

Swedish Hasselblad bought Danish Imacon last year for 100 million crowns, and are today the greatest competitor.

Today Phase One's software packages support to digital reflex cameras cameras from Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Kodak, Olympus and Konica Minolta.

On the software aspect Adobe is the greatest competitor.

Phase One talks and co-operates with both the European and American producers for instance Leica, Carl Zeiss and Jenoptic, but wants to not exclude the Japanese producer Canon as a possible collaborator or buyer.

“The Japanese camera industry is very national except Canon. The Japanese cameras can do everything, but they are complex, and it may be a problem for the professional photographer”, Henrik Håkonsson says.

He doesn't want to put amounts on how much Phase One can bring in, but Imacon was sold for 100 million crowns last year and Phase One has always been bigger.

“The amount depends on, who they are, what they are looking for, and what they can use us for”, the Phase One-manager says.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 01:15:05 PM by TechTalk » Logged
Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #116 on: February 13, 2008, 06:31:52 PM »
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If he needs a wide angle lens, as he said, is he not out of luck with the Hy6? Is there anything wider than 40mm available(or announced with a firm shipping date)?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173812\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

People don't realize that the week link in this system is the lack of wide angle lens. This is a byproduct of the system being a Hybrid of a 6x6 format when 100% of digital back is 645 or smaller format. But nobody has paid attention to that minor detail -- you, hcubell are the first one I see pointing that out, so now we are 2-- but I want to see them after they spent $30k and a client asked them to "can you take one general view image please" and they would have to go and rent a $200 Alpa just for the one shot...
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #117 on: February 13, 2008, 07:10:49 PM »
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People don't realize that the week link in this system is the lack of wide angle lens. This is a byproduct of the system being a Hybrid of a 6x6 format when 100% of digital back is 645 or smaller format. But nobody has paid attention to that minor detail -- you, hcubell are the first one I see pointing that out, so now we are 2-- but I want to see them after they spent $30k and a client asked them to "can you take one general view image please" and they would have to go and rent a $200 Alpa just for the one shot...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174695\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually a lot of people are aware of the wide issue with the Hy6 and its various labels.  There is a 35mm on the way. Is there enough difference between the 28mm  of other MF systems and the announced 35mm to kill off the hy6? I don't think so.  Currently you have your choice of two great 40mm lenses, the schneider f/3.5 and the zeiss f/4 distagon.

I'm betting that those that shoot wide frequently are going to have a different rig anyways because a lot of those really wide shots are going to also need perspective control, tilt or other movements.  Wide with digital has other problems to be solved like lens casts, and some sensors don't play well with light coming in at large angles. So just because one system has a wider wide doesn't mean everything is all happy, click click.

What do I do when I need a wide shot with my 1.5 crop p20?  I stitch a few images together. There's software out there that makes it really easy now.  You don't need a fancy lens node exit pupil pano perpetrator - I've done these hand held even with great results.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 07:19:11 PM by EricWHiss » Logged

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lance_schad
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« Reply #118 on: February 13, 2008, 09:44:13 PM »
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Actually a lot of people are aware of the wide issue with the Hy6 and its various labels.  There is a 35mm on the way. Is there enough difference between the 28mm  of other MF systems and the announced 35mm to kill off the hy6? I don't think so.  Currently you have your choice of two great 40mm lenses, the schneider f/3.5 and the zeiss f/4 distagon.

I'm betting that those that shoot wide frequently are going to have a different rig anyways because a lot of those really wide shots are going to also need perspective control, tilt or other movements.  Wide with digital has other problems to be solved like lens casts, and some sensors don't play well with light coming in at large angles. So just because one system has a wider wide doesn't mean everything is all happy, click click.

What do I do when I need a wide shot with my 1.5 crop p20?  I stitch a few images together. There's software out there that makes it really easy now.  You don't need a fancy lens node exit pupil pano perpetrator - I've done these hand held even with great results.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The other option as mentioned is getting a dedicated wide angle camera for those situations that can also include movements. The ALPA SWA/TC or the Cambo Wide or WideDS for example with digitars.
The cost of some of a CamboWide DS bundled config with a PhaseOne P25+ or P45+ only cost $3750 (35mm) $4000(24mm)during a promo that is running currently. Compare that to the costs of the Mamiya 28mm (open system)lens @ about $5k and the Hasselblad 28mm (need to use thier back and cannot be used with film) about $3850.

I guess there is no one perfect solution.

Lance

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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2008, 01:23:47 PM »
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What Sinar should do is to make a 28mm "DX" that would not work with film like the Hasselblad. Or, since we are talking about Sinar, a Auto everything (even AF) Medium Format Range finder. It could use the optics of the likes of Digitars with the benefits of not having to be retrofocus.


A fast flash speed capable Phase/Mamiya camera that accepts European optics seams to be arround the corner, and the Hy6 is not a finished system yet, (until we see this 35mm)  so things may get interesting in the next few months...
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