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Author Topic: Mamiya 28mm Lens filter question  (Read 15905 times)
mtomalty
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2008, 10:18:00 AM »
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Tim


If you haven't already inquired you might want to dig around the Lee filters product.

I recall,from quite a few years ago,that they had a series of square filters (like cokin)
that were considerably larger that the Cokin P series that were designed for the
movie industry.  You might luck into a large square polarizer that could be rigged to
work with your 28mm.

Cokin also had a series of filters,grads for sure but I don't know about pola's that were about
50% larger that their P series


Best,
Mark
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j.miller
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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2008, 10:44:48 AM »
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Another solution would be to use 138mm round filters intended for Motion Picture / Broadcast applications. This is very common size used in matte boxes by ARRI, Chrosziel, and others. Schneider, Tiffen, and Formatt all make polarizers in this size.

If 138mm is still too small, you could look into the various rectangular filter sizes also available for Motion Picture / Broadcast applications. These include 4"x4", 4"x5.65" (Panavision size), 5"x5", 6.6"x6.6", and several others. Polarizers exist from Schneider, Tiffen, and Formatt in these rectangular sizes as well.

The only problem with all of these filters is they are designed to be used in filter and matte box systems which incorporate all of the necessary mechanics to hold and manipulate the filters in front of the lens. Outside of a matte box, there is not an easy way to hold the filters in place, without developing a custom filter holder.

I have seen several companies, who cater to the motion picture industry who develop custom lens adapters, filter holders, and other random gadgetry.

Paul Duclos of Duclos Lenses is well respected in the motion picture community. see www.ducloslenses.com.

Lentequip is also well known for various lens / filter / matte box related accessories. see www.lentequip.com.

I will have to refer to some notes to find more contacts in the motion picture industry for this type of application.

You might be able to use components from ARRI or Chrosziel light-weight matte box or sunshade, to accomplish this as well.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:58:50 AM by j.miller » Logged
ternst
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2008, 04:47:24 PM »
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OK, thanks for the info. Anything would have to be AT LEAST 5" across - the Cokin P filters are quite tiny in comparison - their x-pro series that I tried were 119mm (about 5") and the polarizer was not wide enough - their resin filters were fine at 5" x 6" but anything smaller would not cut it, and a round one would need to be at least 130mm and perhaps larger.

One other item I discovered is that with so much of the glass filter sticking out beyond the width of the lens barrel, you get reflections from behind that bounce off of the rear of the filter and right onto the sensor - so even if any of these movie filters were large enough to cover the spread you would have to come up with something to keep them from reflecting from the rear - getting to be quite a serious contraption for sure!

I was able to mount the x-pro with universal adapter to the lens hood and it worked just fine with their 5" x 6" resin filters - if they had a polarizer that size (or 5" x 5") that would work fine, but the only polarizers that Cokin makes are round. I don't know if Lee or anyone else makes 5" square polarizers...
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ternst
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2008, 04:49:59 PM »
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-Cokin also had a series of filters,grads for sure but I don't know about pola's that were about
50% larger that their P series-

Mark:

Yup, the x- series and the z-series. The x-pro are the ones I'm trying - they are the largest - and the polarizer is still too small (see above). Their polarizers are all round. I can smell a solution, but it is getting pretty expensive....
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Paul2660
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« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2008, 11:07:36 PM »
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Cokin makes a linear polarizer, I believe it's 5 x 5 for the Z pro.  It's not 5 x6 since there is no grad required.  Linear would be full on all the time, which should work fine.

You will lose the CL effect, rotating to full effect to less effect. But it should cut the glare.

Paul C
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 11:09:46 PM by Paul2660 » Logged

Paul Caldwell
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ternst
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2008, 06:26:47 AM »
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Paul:

I could not find anything Cokin but round polarizers. Do you have a part number? Their x-pro takes 5" filters - the z-pro is much smaller and takes 4" filters (I would have through the "z" to be larger!). Nothing on their web page. I ordered a Schneider 6.6" square polarizer from Hollywood and will give that a shot - I'll have to tape it to the front of the Cokin folder but for now that will be fine. The only Lee filters I found were 4" x 4", but Jordan was correct - there are lots of large filters in the movie industry, including 5.6" & 6.6" square ones and 128mm and 136mm round ones, although the round ones many not be large enough to cover the corners, which is why I went with the large square one.

I found a couple of things interesting - first, that my beloved B&H was priced WAY HIGH for the Cokin filter system I ordered the other day (vs. Adorama - the same polarizing filter, holder, universal adapter, and one gel filter came to about $250 less than B&H - Adorama had ALL of the descriptions listed wrong on their web site, but the part numbers were correct, and they shipped the correct stuff). And that the big Hollywood filters from Schneider and Tiffen were cheaper than the big Cokins - the 119mm x-pro Cokin polarizer was over $400 while the 6.6" Schneider was less than $400.

And one other question for those of you in the know - all of these "Hollywood" filters advertise as being cut from "water white" glass, and that they are much more effective than standard polarizing filters, up to "12" times as much. Anyone know that they are talking about? Obviously a bunch of marketing hype, but is there anything to this vs. the standard B&W or other high quality polarizing filters we mere still mortal still photographers use?

--- The Schneider 6.6x6.6" Circular True-Polarizing Glass filter is by far the most effective polarizer for motion picture and television cameras. Having an extinction ratio of ER 374, the Schneider True-Pol is 12 times more effective than other polarizing filters, and is unmatched in its ability.

The polarizing film in a Schneider True-Pol filter is laminated between two pieces of Schneider's crystal-clear, water-white optical glass. ---
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Paul2660
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2008, 10:38:49 AM »
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Tim,

You are correct it appears that the Cokin Linear is still round.  Adorama's site displays it as square.  

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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ternst
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« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2008, 08:40:04 PM »
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Monday update on this silly polarizing filter issue. I received a Schneider 5.6" x 5.6" polarizing filter today (about $400) and can happily report that it DOES cover the entire 28mm view on a p-45 back. I taped it to the front of a Cokin x-pro filter holder (130mm across) and attached that to the 28mm lens via the Cokin universal adapter. This is not a very good solution and in fact takes several minutes to set up, but it does work, and you can rotate the front of the filter holder with the filter attached so you have full control and there is no vignetting. If I can find a spare lens cap for this lens I will trim it back and attach the universal adapter to it permanently, and that would allow me to slide the entire rig over the front of the lens and make it all much quicker and more effective.

Anyone find a source for the 28mm lens cap?

I know many of you who own this lens continue to laugh at my efforts to find a polarizing filter as you don't see the need, but it seems like every time I use this lens I really need a polarizing filter, so now, at last, I will be able to use this lens to its full potential. I love the rich, saturated colors I can get out in the deep woods with a polarizer, especially on wet, overcast days (lots of great waterfalls in my neck of the woods right now)...

Thanks to all who offered thoughts on this issue!

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
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Don Libby
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« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2008, 08:59:58 PM »
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Tim

Great news and thank you for the update.  I placed an order with B&H about a week ago for a spare lens holder - I'm still waiting.  Where did you get the universal adapter from?  Care to post a image of the result as given in your update?

And the great search continues....


don
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ternst
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« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2008, 09:25:25 PM »
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I got the universal adapter from Adorama but B&H has them too, just more expensive. I will try to take some snaps of the setup in the next day and post here. I think with that lens cap acting as an inside rim for this universal adapter the rig will work pretty well, but it will take up a good bit of space in the camera pack.

The universal adapter is normally attached to the lens hood via four long pointed screws, and you only have about 1/2" or less of lens hood to work with, plus you don't actually want to tighten the screws directly onto the hood since you would scratch it. My thinking was to cut off the rear 3/4" or so of the lens cap and attach those four screws directly to it and taping over any open areas behind the polarizing filter so reflections won't be an issue, then the lens cap should slide onto the lens hood and fit snugly, allowing you to rotate the filter holder (taping the heavy glass filter to the front of the filter holder). A photo will be much better, but since I don't have an extra lens cap it will look pretty bad so please don't laugh too much when I get around to shooting and posting...

tim ernst in arkansas
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Don Libby
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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2008, 09:48:43 PM »
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Quote
. A photo will be much better, but since I don't have an extra lens cap it will look pretty bad so please don't laugh too much when I get around to shooting and posting...

Tim

While I might snicker I promise I won’t laugh!  This is an important project for me as well as I want to have this done before I head for Alaska in a couple months.

don

Edit:  What is the part # for the adapter?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 09:49:21 PM by Iron Creek » Logged

ternst
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2008, 06:19:13 AM »
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Don:

Here is the adapter that I got, which is for the x-pro system, their largest filter holder (the z-pro is a 4" system) - x-499

At B&H

at Adorama

Paul Caldwell is working on getting a special filter cut down to fit the Cokin x-pro holder, although I don't know if the glass is thin enough to fit - the big "hollywood" glass filters are very thick.

I'm headed out early this morning to go shoot some waterfalls and will be able to test the new filter to see how it works...
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 06:20:28 AM by ternst » Logged
Don Libby
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2008, 12:08:45 PM »
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Quote
Here is the adapter that I got, which is for the x-pro system, their largest filter holder (the z-pro is a 4" system) - x-499

Will this work on the Z as well or is there another, the only reference I can find is for the smaller P system.

Thanks

don
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ternst
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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2008, 12:20:14 PM »
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Since the z system is so much smaller I doubt it - the outside rim of this universal adapter is very large to fit the x-pro. I thought I saw a reference to a universal adapter for the z system? I bet they have one, but those filters are only 4" so I didn't pay much attention. I found the Cokin web page useful and had all of their systems and individual items listed...
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Paul2660
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« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2008, 12:22:41 PM »
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Don,

You want the X-pro system.  The z is smaller.  
Cokin sells the adapter separately and then you will need universal adapter ring to mount the holder to the lens shade.


Link to the X-Pro holder:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1692...er_Requires.htm

Link to the universal adapter:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...earch&Q=*&bhs=t

This should get you started.  I have not heard anything back from tiffen on cutting down their 5.65 x 5.65 linear filter.  Checked on it again today, no response.

Paul l
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Paul Caldwell
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Paul2660
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« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2008, 12:34:29 PM »
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Lens Cap for the 28mm is part number 210-635.
Mamiya USA currently has them in stock, $47.00

914-347-3300


PFC
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Paul Caldwell
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ternst
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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2008, 02:13:35 PM »
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Hey THANKS for that info Paul! Keep us posted on the tiffen glass.
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Don Libby
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« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2008, 07:00:50 PM »
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I ordered an extra front lens cap from B&H on March 13th and it was delivered today.  This is not one of their normally stocked items and it took them awhile to get it and ship it out.  The price of the cap was $31.00 total cost including shipping came to $37.85.  This now qualifies as the less expensive accessory I’ve brought for MF.

My thought process was to cut the very leading edge from the cap then using the Cokin X-Pro universal adapter mount the X-Pro filter holder to it.  

I spent about 30 minutes cutting the front off.  This is the first time I every brought something to deliberately cut into and possible ruin it.  Taking my time I was able to get a pretty clean cut (still need to clean it up some).  

This is what I’ve found so far.  

•The adapter works and fit okay on the cut cover.
•The filter holder works well on the adapter.  Keeping the two brass screws loose allows the filter holder to move freely.
•The circular filter fits into the filter holder and works as intended.
•The concept WORKS!

It may not look good but it sure as hell works.  I plan on cleaning up some of the cutting marks and I think I might make 4 small intents/holes so that the screws fit a bit better.  

Hope the following images help clear up any confusion from this write-up.

don

[attachment=6065:attachment]
[attachment=6064:attachment]
[attachment=6063:attachment]  [attachment=6062:attachment]
[attachment=6060:attachment]  [attachment=6061:attachment]

Yes, I know the filter is dusty!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 07:02:17 PM by Iron Creek » Logged

mcfoto
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« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2008, 09:03:11 PM »
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Quote
I ordered an extra front lens cap from B&H on March 13th and it was delivered today.  This is not one of their normally stocked items and it took them awhile to get it and ship it out.  The price of the cap was $31.00 total cost including shipping came to $37.85.  This now qualifies as the less expensive accessory I’ve brought for MF.

My thought process was to cut the very leading edge from the cap then using the Cokin X-Pro universal adapter mount the X-Pro filter holder to it. 

I spent about 30 minutes cutting the front off.  This is the first time I every brought something to deliberately cut into and possible ruin it.  Taking my time I was able to get a pretty clean cut (still need to clean it up some). 

This is what I’ve found so far.   

•The adapter works and fit okay on the cut cover.
•The filter holder works well on the adapter.  Keeping the two brass screws loose allows the filter holder to move freely.
•The circular filter fits into the filter holder and works as intended.
•The concept WORKS!

It may not look good but it sure as hell works.  I plan on cleaning up some of the cutting marks and I think I might make 4 small intents/holes so that the screws fit a bit better. 

Hope the following images help clear up any confusion from this write-up.

don

[attachment=6065:attachment]
[attachment=6064:attachment]
[attachment=6063:attachment]  [attachment=6062:attachment]
[attachment=6060:attachment]  [attachment=6061:attachment]

Yes, I know the filter is dusty!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188842\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
Well done. If you took this to a jeweler they could do a nice clean cut. Should send what you have done to Really Right Stuff & see what they could make, providing there is enough demand.
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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Don Libby
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« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2008, 09:28:41 PM »
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Thanks Denis

Wanted to add this image as well.

[attachment=6066:attachment]

don
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