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Author Topic: 1Ds III with measles...  (Read 8805 times)
seanw
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« on: February 14, 2008, 11:15:41 AM »
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When shooting in-camera jpgs, the files have hundreds of pink and white spots no larger than a few pixels. They are most noticeable in areas a little darker than middle gray and when using smaller apertures. But they are present in all jpgs if looking close enough. I have attached a 100% crop to show the issue. I adjusted the levels a bit to make the spots more obvious, but it is clear without adjustment. The spots appear in the exact same location in all pictures. To me they look almost like dead pixels, but the RAW files are unaffected. The same picture shot with RAW + JPG only has this issue in the jpg file.

Has anyone else noticed this problem with their camera?
Any idea what might be causing this?

I have tried shooting at all ISOs, apertures, various shutter speeds, through the viewfinder, using live view, sRBG vs Adobe RGB, noise reduction on and off, etc... all with the same results.

I just got it back from Canon after having the viewfinder alignment serviced and do not want to send it in again, but as of right now, I have no jpg functionality.

Any input is appreciated - thanks.[attachment=5133:attachment]
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Paul Sumi
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 12:10:32 PM »
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When shooting in-camera jpgs, the files have hundreds of pink and white spots no larger than a few pixels.[attachment=5133:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174858\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have no answer but do have a couple of questions.  Other than the viewfinder alignment, has anything else changed, like a firmware update?  Do these spots also appear in JPGs developed from RAW?

I wonder if reinstalling the firmware might help.

Paul
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 12:11:17 PM by PaulS » Logged

Panopeeper
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 12:30:20 PM »
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You said it is not visible in raw. Which raw processor are you using? Have you checked it in DPP?
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Gabor
seanw
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 01:11:05 PM »
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I have no answer but do have a couple of questions. Other than the viewfinder alignment, has anything else changed, like a firmware update? Do these spots also appear in JPGs developed from RAW?

I wonder if reinstalling the firmware might help.

Paul

There have been no changes, no firmware update. And no the spots do not occur in jpgs developed from a RAW file. I have not tried re-installing the firmware yet. I'll give that a try. Thanks.

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You said it is not visible in raw. Which raw processor are you using? Have you checked it in DPP?

I have Capture One (version 3.7 and 4.1), ACR and DPP. Have not tried DPP. But you can even see the spots on the LCD if it's a jpg file (when zoomed in). A RAW file shows no spots on the LCD. I also viewed them in Bridge and same thing, RAWs look good, jpgs have spots. I'll try DPP tonight but I suspect the same outcome.  
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 01:28:19 PM »
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For me it looks like dust "compensation" is applied, when there is no dust on the sensor. I don't know about C1, but ACR does not not recognizes the dust delete data, which is appended to the raw data, but DPP does.

Try resetting the dust delete data. If it turns out that it was "crazy" dust delete information, pls upload the raw and JPEG somewhere (or yousendit), I would like to have a sample for that.
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Gabor
seanw
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 01:34:22 PM »
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For me it looks like dust "compensation" is applied, when there is no dust on the sensor. I don't know about C1, but ACR does not not recognizes the dust delete data, which is appended to the raw data, but DPP does.

Try resetting the dust delete data. If it turns out that it was "crazy" dust delete information, pls upload the raw and JPEG somewhere (or yousendit), I would like to have a sample for that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174898\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I have not yet used the dust delete feature, but I will try resetting it and see if it does the trick. I will let you know the outcome on Monday - taking a long weekend away.    Thanks for your input.
Sean
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 01:44:25 PM »
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It can be tested easily with DPP: if it comes from dust delete data, then DPP shows it in raw format too.
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Gabor
oldcsar
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 06:00:38 PM »
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Could there be something seriously wrong with your sensor? Are the white and red blemishes in a constant pattern, or do they vary from frame to frame? What about before and after a quick sensor cleaning with a rocket blower? I believe several RAW converters automatically remove stuck pixels present in RAW files... this is what occurs in ACR even with my old Powershot S50 RAWs. this may explain why you have no problem with RAW but your JPEGs are useless.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 06:02:49 PM by oldcsar » Logged

ARD
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2008, 08:43:15 AM »
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I had a similar thing on my 1DMKII

It turned out to be the battery. I reconditioned the battery in the charger and all was fine after that
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samureye
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2008, 11:19:39 PM »
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Hello,

I'm by no means an expert, but these dots look like hot pixels to me. Depending on your RAW-processor, these hot pixels may get mapped out, so they are no longer visible after the conversion. Can you still see them when you do a dark exposure (with the lens cap on), you could also check if they occur at any ISO settings/exposure times and (as has already been suggested) check if they are constant or appear in different areas. However, until proven otherwise, this smells like a sensor problem to me.

I hope I'm wrong and good luck,

Samureye
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seanw
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 12:17:22 PM »
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Well after more testing I found that indeed the RAW file is affected. It is clear in DPP. Interestingly, ACR corrects for the spots automatically even with noise reduction off as mentioned by OLDSCAR.

I did try re-installing the firmware which is also what Canon recommended trying. Didn't help.
I did not see any way to reset the dust delete data. Since I had never used it, there was no data to be applied or removed.
I would seriously doubt it had anything to do with a dirty sensor since that usually results in dark spots and not bright spots.

I have attached a screen shot so you can see what I see. The screen shot is of a RAW file viewed at 100% in DPP. It is an 8 second exposure at f/22. There are hundreds of red, green and blue spots.

The spots are in the same location on each photo. They are most noticeable at small apertures and long exposures in the darker areas of the photo. Photos at wide apertures with shorter shutter speeds hide most of the spots except some of the biggest and brightest. The lens used, ISO setting and noise reduction settings all have no effect on the spots.

I'm really fearing it's the sensor. I would be interested to see if anyone else with a 1Ds Mark III has this problem.  Try shooting some tests of a dark subject at f/22 with an exposure of several seconds. Then open the RAWs in DPP and view at 100%.

ARD - does this look like the problem you had before reconditioning the battery?

Again thanks for everyones' insight and input.
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 12:22:16 PM »
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Sean,

why don't you upload such a raw image? You can use yousendit.
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Gabor
seanw
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2008, 12:28:40 PM »
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Sean,

why don't you upload such a raw image? You can use yousendit.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175724\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Sorry - what is yousendit and howdoiuseit?
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John Sheehy
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2008, 12:48:53 PM »
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Hello,

I'm by no means an expert, but these dots look like hot pixels to me. Depending on your RAW-processor, these hot pixels may get mapped out, so they are no longer visible after the conversion. Can you still see them when you do a dark exposure (with the lens cap on), you could also check if they occur at any ISO settings/exposure times and (as has already been suggested) check if they are constant or appear in different areas. However, until proven otherwise, this smells like a sensor problem to me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It may only be a mapping problem.  Every sensor has many thousands of broken pixels, which get interpolated from their neighbors by the camera when writing the RAW data.  The list may merely need to be reset at Canon (the fact that this isn't doable by the user is a corporate crime, IMO).
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seanw
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2008, 01:18:09 PM »
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It may only be a mapping problem.  Every sensor has many thousands of broken pixels, which get interpolated from their neighbors by the camera when writing the RAW data.  The list may merely need to be reset at Canon (the fact that this isn't doable by the user is a corporate crime, IMO).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I did not know that...

Well that doesn't sound too bad other than having to send it in again. I'm still waiting to see what Canon has to say. Maybe they will confirm this is the issue.

Thanks John.
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2008, 02:11:16 PM »
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Sorry - what is yousendit and howdoiuseit?

The URL (internet address) is yousendit.com

You can use a fictious email address as sender and as receiver; after having uploaded it, the site displays a URL, from where the data can be downloaded. If you post that URl here, then everyone can download it.
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Gabor
riccohn
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2008, 01:10:46 PM »
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"I have attached a screen shot so you can see what I see. The screen shot is of a RAW file viewed at 100% in DPP. It is an 8 second exposure at f/22. There are hundreds of red, green and blue spots.

The spots are in the same location on each photo. They are most noticeable at small apertures and long exposures in the darker areas of the photo. Photos at wide apertures with shorter shutter speeds hide most of the spots except some of the biggest and brightest. The lens used, ISO setting and noise reduction settings all have no effect on the spots.

I'm really fearing it's the sensor. I would be interested to see if anyone else with a 1Ds Mark III has this problem.  Try shooting some tests of a dark subject at f/22 with an exposure of several seconds. Then open the RAWs in DPP and view at 100%."

I didn't realize this was visible after a long exposure. Is Long Exposure Noise Suppression enabled in your camera settings? Did you compare it at less than 1 second?
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seanw
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2008, 09:45:46 AM »
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I didn't realize this was visible after a long exposure. Is Long Exposure Noise Suppression enabled in your camera settings? Did you compare it at less than 1 second?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I've tested with long exposure noise reduction off, on and set to auto all with no affect. I've compared at all different exposures. Short exposures look much better but if you look hard enough you can still find some of the spots. More and more spots become noticeable as the exposure gets longer. As of right now it's back at Canon being checked. I'll update once I hear back from them.
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