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Author Topic: Alain Briot's G9 Review  (Read 22357 times)
mrleonard
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2008, 07:29:07 PM »
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Well...it's simple.
The RAVE reviews and popularity of the G9 I don't disagree with. As to the substance of the reviews..these points.

You haven't used both..obviously...so you dont have any experience with both and thus can't compare them.

Build quality?!? The LX2 is smaller...highly desirable for a point & shoot...no?!? The G9 is a small step away from just bringing along a beat-up digital rebel.

The image quality is the same and/or negligable difference...period.

Did I need to clarify about it being cheap?!? My bad..let me clarify..It cost LESS.

I always find it hilarious..this brand loyalty...The Sigma DP1 comes out and everyone harps about what Canon will have to offer. This goes on all the time. All i'm saying is that..HELLO!!! everyone....
there is a highly capable/comparible P&S digital shooting RAW (and it's been out for a while) that has been rather overlooked due to it's 'consumer' branding (Panasonic Lumix). Btw....you've got to admit it is really laughable that the Leica branded version of the LX2 costs more, even though it's the SAME camera.

Where was I..oh ya...Ive got a child coming in two weeks yet I get involved in such petty discussions...
bubye!
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2008, 08:21:31 PM »
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Well...it's simple.
The RAVE reviews and popularity of the G9 I don't disagree with.

You "don't disagree?"

Hey, speaking of simple, you don't need to stammer with a double-negative, just make this easier on yourself by admitting you agree (ahem, that I'm right) with my statement that the G9 is the more popular camera, the orginal, and the leader of the high-end P&S market.




Quote
As to the substance of the reviews..these points.
You haven't used both..obviously...so you dont have any experience with both and thus can't compare them.

I wasn't "comparing them," I was disagreeing with your laughable statement that the LX2 was "so clearly the leader." The avalanche of facts (you know, those details you like to sweep aside all the time) shows that the G9 is the leader.




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Build quality?!? The LX2 is smaller...highly desirable for a point & shoot...no?!? The G9 is a small step away from just bringing along a beat-up digital rebel.

You know, for a guy who is so opposed to "nonsense," you sure are full of it. Tell me, what does "small size" have to do with build quality? And why is the G9 now a "beat-up" Rebel? The G9 is in fact built more ruggedly than the Rebel.




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The image quality is the same and/or negligable difference...period.

You keep missing the point. Perhaps you would be more comfortable playing T-ball. The point I was refuting of yours was your factually-inaccurate statement that the LX2 is "so clearly" the leader. The actual facts of the matter prove precisely the opposite: the Canon G9 is so clearly the leader. Everybody else is following Canon, G9 and otherwise. Those are the facts Lenny.

If the LX2 is "just as good as" the Canon in image quality (or almost), this still doesn't change the fact that Canon remains The Standard to which all the others are compared. It still doesn't change the fact Canon brought RAW to the P&S segment. It still doesn't change the fact the G9 has more features. It still doesn't change the fact Canon is The Leader ...




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Did I need to clarify about it being cheap?!? My bad..let me clarify..It cost LESS.

You forgot the "s" at the end of cost, but didn't I already cover this laughable position of yours in the last post?




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I always find it hilarious..this brand loyalty...The Sigma DP1 comes out and everyone harps about what Canon will have to offer. This goes on all the time.

We all find it hilarious, but it is still fun to be loyal to the brand we like  




Quote
All i'm saying is that..HELLO!!! everyone....
there is a highly capable/comparible P&S digital shooting RAW (and it's been out for a while) that has been rather overlooked due to it's 'consumer' branding (Panasonic Lumix).

OK, then why don't you just say, "If a person has certain needs that the LX2 has, that the G9 doesn't, then go for the LX2," (as you did)? But simply because the LX2 has certain features does not make is "so clearly the leader" ... it just means the LX2 has certain features and capabilities that will appeal to certain buyers.




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Btw....you've got to admit it is really laughable that the Leica branded version of the LX2 costs more, even though it's the SAME camera.

I do agree with you here  




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Where was I..oh ya...Ive got a child coming in two weeks yet I get involved in such petty discussions...
bubye!

I am not sure what this has to do with the point, but hey that never stopped you before ... and congratulations  

Jack
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peteh
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2008, 01:24:14 AM »
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You "don't disagree?"

Hey, speaking of simple, you don't need to stammer with a double-negative, just make this easier on yourself by admitting you agree (ahem, that I'm right) with my statement that the G9 is the more popular camera, the orginal, and the leader of the high-end P&S market.
I wasn't "comparing them," I was disagreeing with your laughable statement that the LX2 was "so clearly the leader." The avalanche of facts (you know, those details you like to sweep aside all the time) shows that the G9 is the leader.
You know, for a guy who is so opposed to "nonsense," you sure are full of it. Tell me, what does "small size" have to do with build quality? And why is the G9 now a "beat-up" Rebel? The G9 is in fact built more ruggedly than the Rebel.
You keep missing the point. Perhaps you would be more comfortable playing T-ball. The point I was refuting of yours was your factually-inaccurate statement that the LX2 is "so clearly" the leader. The actual facts of the matter prove precisely the opposite: the Canon G9 is so clearly the leader. Everybody else is following Canon, G9 and otherwise. Those are the facts Lenny.

If the LX2 is "just as good as" the Canon in image quality (or almost), this still doesn't change the fact that Canon remains The Standard to which all the others are compared. It still doesn't change the fact Canon brought RAW to the P&S segment. It still doesn't change the fact the G9 has more features. It still doesn't change the fact Canon is The Leader ...
You forgot the "s" at the end of cost, but didn't I already cover this laughable position of yours in the last post?
We all find it hilarious, but it is still fun to be loyal to the brand we like  
OK, then why don't you just say, "If a person has certain needs that the LX2 has, that the G9 doesn't, then go for the LX2," (as you did)? But simply because the LX2 has certain features does not make is "so clearly the leader" ... it just means the LX2 has certain features and capabilities that will appeal to certain buyers.
I do agree with you here  
I am not sure what this has to do with the point, but hey that never stopped you before ... and congratulations  

Jack
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193994\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
After that.I would say HEAH ! I love my G9 !
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mrleonard
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2008, 09:52:56 AM »
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You have no points whasoever Jonny Kernalpops , you do see that dont you?

You say it's the leader because of sales or popularity. OBVIOUSLY I say it's the leader because it's the better camera. It is the better camera by virtue of it's lower cost.

The G9 has more features? How would you know? You don't have both..I do. Besides..both offer full manual control..after that who cares? I guess you need some of those advanced features so you can shoot in the 'foodie' mode when you are in a restaurant.

The build quality are the same...they are both rugged metal chassis. The LX2 is smaller and will fit into your pocket. The G9 doesn't. So if you can't carry it in your pocket , it is not a far stretch to carrying a lightweight  small SLR. You didn't understand that?

Who cares that Canon is the standard that all others are compared to? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Im comparing the cameras...not which brand gives me a boner. Maybe you should change your last name to Canon. Yes...Jonny Canon...nice.

My intention was to make people aware of certain facts...especially if the cost is of concern. You can do a poll as to which camera is better and Canon would obviously win, so therefore you are right, the G9 is better....lol. You must be american...
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2008, 10:42:20 AM »
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You have no points whasoever Jonny Kernalpops , you do see that dont you?

Actually all of the points from me have been facts ... while the only "point" I see coming from you is the shape of your head.




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You say it's the leader because of sales or popularity. OBVIOUSLY I say it's the leader because it's the better camera. It is the better camera by virtue of it's lower cost.

Yes, the Canon's sales popularity, combined with the fact it is the leader in P&S innovation, make the G9 the leader for its particular market segment. You are simply dense to argue otherwise.

What else is there to leadership, besides innovation and market sales? You seem to think "low cost" is the benchmark for leadership   Do you have mercury in your water supply or is it lead?




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The G9 has more features? How would you know? You don't have both..I do.

Well, your ability to think accurately (to say nothing of spell accurately) has already proven to be severely impaired, so your take on the two cameras means nothing to me. It also means nothing to the objective facts that the Canon G9 has more features, is the market leader, and was the first P&S series to have RAW.

You are confusing a few details that might favor the LX2 with true "leadership." I myself would agree that there are a few features that favor the LX2, but this is not the same thing as true leadership.




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Besides..both offer full manual control..after that who cares? I guess you need some of those advanced features so you can shoot in the 'foodie' mode when you are in a restaurant.

There you go again with that "nonsense" you say you don't like ...




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The build qualities are the same...they are both rugged metal chassis. The LX2 is smaller and will fit into your pocket. The G9 doesn't. So if you can't carry it in your pocket , it is not a far stretch to carrying a lightweight  small SLR. You didn't understand that?

The build quality are not the same. And, once again (for the slow) small size does not = "build quality" ...

And what does "fitting in your pocket" have to do with anything? The P&S segment means the POINT-AND-SHOOT segment, so what does "fitting in your pocket" have to do with pointing, shooting, quality, and/or leadership?

Further, you did not call the G9 a "lightweight small SLR" ... you called it "a beat up Rebel." Now you're calling it something else, but neither is factual. A camera being an "SLR" or not has nothing to do with size, it has to do with its action and lens-changing capabilities. Thus it appears you like to switch one stupid statement you make for another, but it is equally apparent you can never seem to make an intelligent statement of fact. That's what you don't understand.




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Who cares that Canon is the standard that all others are compared to? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Who cares? The majority of people who buy cameras ... and originality of innovation are the things that "have to do with" leadership. When a company is first in design, features, and innovation this makes it THE LEADER. When a company sells more of its brand to more people in that segment, this makes it THE LEADER.

Only in your idiotic daydreams does "small size" and "lower price" comprise the elements of leadership. The rest of the world sees things as I have outlined them.




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Im comparing the cameras...not which brand gives me a boner. Maybe you should change your last name to Canon. Yes...Jonny Canon...nice.

No, you're once again missing the point (not to mention misspelling more words) ... and now you have embarrassed yourself even further by attributing sexual stimulation to camera features and market leadership. (Is there anything you can get right sir?)

Maybe we could call you LX2 Lenny ... or perhaps Leica Lenny ... but I think Lame-brain Lenny would actually be a more accurate moniker.




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My intention was to make people aware of certain facts...especially if the cost is of concern.

No, your intention was to gush-forth your love and arousal for the LX2, but in doing so you made some factually-inaccurate statements of "leadership," which I merely corrected. Since that time, you have done nothing but offer your own brand of "nonsense" to repeatedly attempt to cover-up your mistakes. I would not have chimed-in had you just mentioned the low cost of the LX2 or its wide-angle abilities ... but you said this camera is "so clearly" the leader, when in fact it so clearly IS NOT.




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You can do a poll as to which camera is better and Canon would obviously win, so therefore you are right, the G9 is better....lol. You must be american...

I didn't say "better" ... I said the leader ... and in 4 separate posts you still have not been able to grasp this distinction. Which means you must be an idiot.

Jack
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2008, 11:04:38 AM »
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Canon is the leader in point and shoot innovation?  Could you cite some examples of this leadership?
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michael
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« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2008, 11:29:36 AM »
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The personal insults are completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

Please end them now. Anyone continuing to cast insults in this or any other thread will be banned.

Michael
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mrleonard
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« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2008, 11:43:44 AM »
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The personal insults are completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

Please end them now. Anyone continuing to cast insults in this or any other thread will be banned.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194165\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Agreed!

Btw Michael, Iknow you were a fan of the LX1 when it came out and must like the wide end of P&S's as you got a GX100. After your experience with these and the Sigma DP1 I am curious which one,pound for pound ,dollar for dollar you'd say is your number 1 choice. Number 2,3?
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2008, 02:11:53 PM »
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The personal insults are completely unnecessary and inappropriate.
Please end them now. Anyone continuing to cast insults in this or any other thread will be banned.
Michael


I agree that the insults are neither necessary nor appropriate.

However, I would like it noted for the record that my initial communication with Mr. Leonard involved no insults at all, I simply voiced a divergence of opinion. I said: "Why do you feel that the LX2 is "so" clearly the leader, when the G9 has more features, is more versatile, is used more often by more people, and has had more rave reviews written about it? It would thus appear that the LX2 is in fact the follower, not the leader."

It was actually Mr. Leonard who opened the insulting and condescending mood when he responded to me by saying, "Well gee John ... I think your other points are nonsense," followed by, "You have no points whasoever Jonny Kernalpops ... I guess you need some of those advanced features so you can shoot in the 'foodie' mode when you are in a restaurant," and then, "Im comparing the cameras...not which brand gives me a boner. Maybe you should change your last name to Canon. Yes...Jonny Canon...nice.

Lenny then ended his litany with, "lol. You must be american..."



So if I responded in kind, I believe it was after much provocation, because the original and most flagrant transgressor in this dialogue would be Mr. Leonard.

Thanks for reading,

Jack
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2008, 02:13:17 PM »
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Agreed!



Well sir, before you go to sucking-up in your agreement with the moderator, you might want to apologize first for being the originator of the insults.

Jack
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2008, 02:19:04 PM »
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Canon is the leader in point and shoot innovation?  Could you cite some examples of this leadership?




Sure, I'd be glad to. It all started in 2000 with the advent of the G1. Here are some of your requested examples:




[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Canon Powershot G1[/span]
"Canon unveiled the original PowerShot G1 just before Photokina last year (September 2000). It took quite a few people who were expecting a Pro70 replacement by surprise. The G1 immediately struck a chord with people considering Nikon's Coolpix 990 or Olympus's C-3030Z.
...(resolution) the best at the time of writing this review."

DPReview, 2001



[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Canon Powershot G6[/span]
"With a multitude of pro-level features, the Canon PowerShot G6 is a leader among this first batch of 7MP cameras."
PCMag, 2004

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Canon PowerShot G6[/span]
"Canon's latest iteration of its advanced compact camera stays on top with higher resolution, powerful features, and great image quality."
PCWorld, 2005




[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Canon Powershot G9[/span]
"Before the advent of affordable digital SLRs, prosumer/enthusiast point and shoot (P&S) digital cameras were the driving force behind the exponential expansion of the digital imaging revolution. Canon digital cameras have been at the forefront of that high tech surge since the introduction of the iconic Powershot G1 in 2000."
DigitalCameraReview.com, 2007

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Canon Powershot G9[/span]
"Creativity unlimited: Advanced photographers will benefit from a selection of 25 shooting modes that includes full Manual, Av and Tv, along with two custom modes for user-defined settings. Shooting modes are complemented by a variety of features that assist creative shooting ... IQ-wise the G9 is about as good as it gets in a compact camera ... and physically it puts virtually everything else to shame." (Build Quality)
DPReview, 2007

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Canon Powershot G9[/span]
"class-leading 12.1-megapixels of resolution, the G9 has the ability to capture detailed images that allow enlargements up to poster size with cropping."
Steve's Digicams, 2007

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Canon Powershot G9[/span]
"Disturbingly, it also beat the pants off the Leica in two of the other major areas: exposure and white balance.  The G9’s metering is superbly accurate.  This was in stark contrast to the M8’s metering, which I find crude and unreliable.  The same holds true for white balance though this is relevant only when shooting jpegs.  My $500 camera consistently knew the light temperature, even in mixed-lighting torture tests, whereas the $5,000 Leica rarely had a clue."
LuminousLandscape (Nick Devlin), 2007





Those are but a few examples of Canon's leadership in the pro-level P&S market.

Jack
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2008, 02:48:14 PM »
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That's what I thought.

(As an aside, I have a G9.)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 02:48:30 PM by DarkPenguin » Logged
mrleonard
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« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2008, 03:20:34 PM »
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Well sir, before you go to sucking-up in your agreement with the moderator, you might want to apologize first for being the originator of the insults.

Jack
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194209\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Saying "Well gee," or that the other points are "nonsense" are not insults. They are my opinions. I was obvious l was being sarcastic to the fact that Canon is the biggest camera brand name.Calling me by a slang name is insulting however(lenny),and you started that.As well as derogatory statements about my spelling (my kybrd on the laptop is crapped out fyi). I have nothing at all to apologise for.

Im not even sure what your point is...other than that you love the G9..You made no comparisons at all. All you said is it was a leader. Well...a "leader" obviously means something different to you than it does to me. The "leader" of all the P&S digi's to ME is the LX2.

Im glad that itgets scant attention though...It helps my friends and those Isuggest it  to get it cheap.

TOP reasons it is BETTER than the Canon g9

-costs less
-shoots wide angle (28mm)
-has all features you need (full manual) and highlight warning plus 2 IS modes
-fits in a pocket
-shoots 16:9 aspect ratio (very nice widescreen framing)
-durable (ive dropped mine a few times,no problem)
-shoots raw
-supersharp Leica lens



Buy my G9...
Will probably pickup a GX100 for its 24mm.
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2008, 01:06:39 PM »
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Mr. Leonard said,
"Saying 'Well gee,' or that the other points are 'nonsense' are not insults. They are my opinions."

Well, actually, what is nonsense is your belief that saying “well gee” is an opinion. It is not an opinion at all; it is nothing but needless sarcasm, which is insulting. Further, your belief that what I said is “nonsense” is also insulting.




Mr. Leonard said,
"I was obvious l was being sarcastic to the fact that Canon is the biggest camera brand name.Calling me by a slang name is insulting however(lenny),and you started that."

Your entire demeanor has been sarcastic from the outset, and there was really no reason for you to conduct yourself in this fashion. My calling you ‘Lenny’ was merely my attempt to join you in the sarcastic, insulting climate you created. Originally, I had only sought clarification on why you felt a Johnny-come-lately camera like the LX2 could be “the leader” in a segment when it was (in point of fact) the follower. And you still have yet to grasp this distinction.




Mr. Leonard said,
"As well as derogatory statements about my spelling (my kybrd on the laptop is crapped out fyi). I have nothing at all to apologise for."

So you’re blaming your poor spelling on your “keyboard” eh? I guess it must have some unseen phantom magnetic forces which make your fingers repeatedly punch the wrong letters then … is that what you’re claiming here?




Mr. Leonard said,
"Im not even sure what your point is...other than that you love the G9..You made no comparisons at all. All you said is it was a leader."

You have your understanding of the world exactly backwards, sir.

You made the statement that the LX2 “was SO clearly the leader” amongst the advanced P&S segment, and I merely asked how you felt this was possible. Leadership has to do with originality and who was first to come up with ideas. Canon was the first to come out with RAW in the P&S segment, just as it was first to come out with a FF DSLR. This makes Canon the leader, by definition.

You simply don’t have a correct understanding of what “leadership” is, in precisely the same fashion you can’t spell half the words you use correctly either. This would not be a problem for me, except that when you come off as arrogant and sarcastic as you have come off to me, it makes it awfully hard to resist the temptation to verbally tear you to pieces.




Mr. Leonard said,
"Well...a "leader" obviously means something different to you than it does to me. The ‘leader’ of all the P&S digi's to ME is the LX2."

Leadership means only one thing: first and at the forefront, and the LX2 is neither of these things. It is a very good camera I am sure, but it “leads the pack” in nothing (except perhaps a 16:9 ratio). Therefore, what you have is not only a problem in spelling your words, but you have a problem in understanding what words mean.




Mr. Leonard said,
"Im glad that itgets scant attention though...It helps my friends and those Isuggest it  to get it cheap."

Again, getting scant attention is not exactly the mark of Leadership …





Mr. Leonard said,
"TOP reasons it is BETTER than the Canon g9"

First of all, “better” does not necessarily mean a camera is The Leader. The new Nikon D3 may in fact be a “better” camera than the Canon 5D, but this does not change the fact Canon was the leader in providing the consumer with a FF DSLR option. Nikon may eventually create a camera that eclipses the 1DsMKIII in 21 mp resolution, but that still doesn’t change the fact Canon was the leader in breaking the 21 mp barrier in a DSLR to begin with.

Canon is still the leader. Canon is still “The Standard” to which all of the others are compared. In many cases, Canon is both the leader on top of which they have a better product.  In some cases however, certain companies may offer certain products that may “technically” be better than the Canon equivalent, but that doesn’t change the fact that Canon is the leader and that the other companies are following in their footsteps.

And finally, the Panasonic LX2 is “better” than the Canon G9 at virtually nothing. In fact, let’s examine some of your claims about the LX2 being “better”:




Mr. Leonard said,
"-costs less"

Well, the Lx2 costs only $100 less than the G9, and it gives you less too:  only a 4x zoom instead of 6x, only 10.2 mp instead of 12.1, not as many features, inferior image quality, etc., etc.




Mr. Leonard said,
"-shoots wide angle (28mm)"

Yeah, OK, but the flipside to that is the LX2 only goes up to a 4x zoom (112mm) whereas the Powershot G9 goes all the way to a 6x zoom (210mm). This means the Powershot G9 offers almost a 100mm zoom advantage over the LX2. By contrast, even on the low end, the LX2’s 28 mm low is only a 7 mm “wide” advantage over the G9’s low of 35 mm. So who really gives a full and functional range advantage in the P&S segment?




Mr. Leonard said,
"-has all features you need (full manual) and highlight warning plus 2 IS modes"

Um, well, the G9 has 25 shooting modes, 9 WB modes, so here again the LX2 falls short of the G9's range of features.




Mr. Leonard said,
"-fits in a pocket"

OK, this is a slight advantage for some people, but my view is that if you have a belt case for your G9, and can carry it on your hip, what is the difference, really?




Mr. Leonard said,
"-shoots 16:9 aspect ratio (very nice widescreen framing)"

The LX2 has more 16:9 options, this is true. But the G9 still carries one 16:9 photo setting of 4000 x 2248, so the G9 does have this setting, the Canon just doesn’t revolve its entire world around this ratio.




Mr. Leonard said,
"-durable (ive dropped mine a few times,no problem)"

Many cameras have been “dropped” and survived, but this doesn’t make them The Leader in durable build quality, so nice try.




Mr. Leonard said,
"-shoots raw"

Yep, the LX2 follows in the footsteps of the G-series camera line in providing RAW capability … however, the LX2 does not do so at the same level. It has inferior macro capabilities, only 10.4mp (not 12.1mp), it only has a 112 mm zoom reach (not 210 mm), and it has nowhere near the overall features and capabilities. And, regarding quickness, CnetReviews noted, “Unsurprisingly ... the LX2 always takes a fraction of a second longer than I could spare when photographing animals and children,” and because I in particular favor photographing animals (especially insects in macro), the LX2 simply does not compare as a choice for me. However, if I were wanting to shoot casual landscapes as my preference I might agree with your selection of the LX2.




Mr. Leonard said,
"-supersharp Leica lens"

Sorry, but even here the LX2 falls short of the G9. The G9 scores better in image quality, build quality, and features.

Among the so-so review comments made for the LX2’s image quality are “Generally soft photos; mediocre movies.” (CNetReviews);  “Build Quality: 9.0 / Features: 8.0 / Image Quality: 7.5 … a processing engine that replaces fine detail with smeary, watercolor-like artefacts … Recommended (but with reservations).”  (DPReview)

Compare this to the stellar reviews of the G9: “The Canon PowerShot G9 gets a leg up over its (competition) by improving photo quality and restoring raw-format support while maintaining the same excellent performance and body design. You probably can't miss with this model as a compact backup for your dSLR.” (CNetReviews); “Build Quality: 9.5 / Features: 9.5 / Image Quality: 8.0 … Excellent resolution and respectable edge-to-edge sharpness across the zoom range … IQ-wise the G9 is about as good as it gets in a compact camera … and physically it puts virtually everything else to shame … Highly Recommended.” (DPReview).




Mr. Leonard said,
"Buy my G9...
Will probably pickup a GX100 for its 24mm."


Thanks for your offer, but I already have a G9.

And I noticed that after all your babbling about the LX2 being the leader that even you don’t buy into your own rhetoric, as you are now switching to a GX100.

Amazing,

Jack
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 01:30:37 PM by JohnKoerner » Logged
mrleonard
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« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2008, 06:48:21 PM »
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The LX2 is the better camera. Why are you so hung up on the "leader"? You don't have both,so  you can't compare...period. The "leader" is the one that "leads" in my usage.Leadership to you is "who  first came up with the ideas" to you. Not to me.

Im not undermining any position by wanting to purchase a GX100...I simply find the wide end(24mm) highly desirable in a P&S.

The 16:9 of the Canon g9  is a crop.. not the same thing at all as a 16:9 sensor.
The image quality of the two are the same and/or negligable.

Do you ever use those 25  different shooting modes?!? I don't...most pros I know dont either. It is basically manual, A priority or S priority with 1 or 2 others...

The list price may be only $100 less...but the availability of it on the market...the street price is less than that.

The BIGGEST downside to the g9 IS it's size. The reason (for me) for a good P&S is that I always have it with me....and the g9 takes a concerted effort.

The 'soft' images of the LX2 they all refer to are the jpegs that are processed with Panasonic's Venus engine. Not applicable to RAW. A common misconception actually.

All your factoids, googled stats etc...LOL. You spend a lot of energy on this, huh?
I shoot with both...and am telling you an unbiased ,overall opinion. I shoot with a 5D and L lenses, and have used Canon extensively in my career.

Wow though...sniff...you sure know how to verbally tear me to pieces.
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JohnKoerner
Guest
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2008, 12:46:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Mr. Leonard said,
“You don't have both,so  you can't compare...period.”

Wow, you really are like a broken record. First of all, the original issue was LEADERSHIP. Second of all, even if we decide to switch topics now and do a comparison, I don't need "both" cameras to cite example-after-example of other people's comparisons. I don't need both cameras in front of me to see very clearly that the LX2 is deficient on more features, doesn't offer the kind of zoom I want, and has NOT gotten as many rave reviews as the G9.

The fact is, if we both had a sample of each camera, you would give your view and I would give mine. What would matter, then, would ultimately boil down to the indepedent views out there ... and whose position they supported, yours or mine? And the simple fact is those independent views all pretty much all favor the G9 in every single category, except 16:9 availability and small size.




Mr. Leonard said,
“The 'leader' is the one that 'leads' in my usage.Leadership to you is 'who  first came up with the ideas' to you. Not to me.”

Ah, so you make up your own reality as you go along. They have special places that for people like that, you know? You said that the LX2 was “so clearly” the leader, as if this was an indisputable objective fact. I merely called into question this position, and now (after you have not listed a single objective fact in support of your veiws) you have changed the very definition of the word "Leadership" to suit your needs. Hell, you have now qualified your own usage by saying you were speaking of leadership “to you.”  




Mr. Leonard said,
“Im not undermining any position by wanting to purchase a GX100...I simply find the wide end(24mm) highly desirable in a P&S.”

You would really save us both a lot of typing by just saying you prefer wide-angle capabilities than trying to say the Lx2 is “so clearly” the leader of anything, and trying to make it out as the better overall camera, when it is not. I also find it laughable that you are abandoning the very camera you've been gushing over to get a Gx100, and then denying that this undermines your position




Mr. Leonard said,
“The 16:9 of the Canon g9  is a crop.. not the same thing at all as a 16:9 sensor.”

OK, but this means nothing to me personally, nor is it in any way a reason why I personally would choose a camera, and the same goes for the majority of consumers.




Mr. Leonard said,
“The image quality of the two are the same and/or negligable.”

Here you are downplaying the LX2's shortcomings again. The Canon's image quality is simply better, according to virtually every independent test that has been done ... but then again, I keep forgetting, you prefer to sweep the facts away and invent your own reality.




Mr. Leonard said,
“Do you ever use those 25  different shooting modes?!? I don't...most pros I know dont either. It is basically manual, A priority or S priority with 1 or 2 others...”

That's not the point, is it? And if we're going to cite what “most pros” do or don't do, the fact is most pros have chosen the Powershot G9 as their P&S companion, not the LX2, LOL




Mr. Leonard said,
“The list price may be only $100 less...but the availability of it on the market...the street price is less than that.”

The same price-fluctuating factors apply to both cameras; the fact is the LX2 is only about $100 less.




Mr. Leonard said,
“The BIGGEST downside to the g9 IS it's size. The reason (for me) for a good P&S is that I always have it with me....and the g9 takes a concerted effort.”

OK, there is a convenient-size advantage to the LX2, I have never debated that. But this doesn't make it “the leader” in the marketplace, nor does it mean the LX2 has more features or better image quality. What it means is that the LX2 simply has a slightly more convenient size, but yet the fact remains it is NOT as good an overall camera.




Mr. Leonard said,
“The 'soft' images of the LX2 they all refer to are the jpegs that are processed with Panasonic's Venus engine. Not applicable to RAW. A common misconception actually.”

And the same misconceptions apply to the G9 too as well as the 40D ...




Mr. Leonard said,
“All your factoids, googled stats etc...LOL. You spend a lot of energy on this, huh?”

Actually, looking-up the independent perspectives in favor of the G9 only took but a few minutes to find, again because there were an avalanche of supporting facts for my position. And the independent “factoids” are what separate hot-air opinions from opinions backed by facts, are they not? We have already learned back in the beginning that you like to sweep any and all facts under the carpet, just to keep arguing, in the same fashion we have learned you like to re-invent the very definitions of words to keep arguing your points also.




Mr. Leonard said,
“I shoot with both...and am telling you an unbiased ,overall opinion. I shoot with a 5D and L lenses, and have used Canon extensively in my career.”

Unbiased?

LOL, that's funny.




Mr. Leonard said,
“Wow though...sniff...you sure know how to verbally tear me to pieces.”

Well, it's pretty easy to do really. You give a man enough ammunition to go on for hours if he chooses to. But anyway, take care and have a good night.

Jack
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mrleonard
Guest
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2008, 11:00:15 AM »
ReplyReply

Mr. Leonard said,
[“The 'leader' is the one that 'leads' in my usage.Leadership to you is 'who  first came up with the ideas' to you. Not to me.”
YOu said:
Ah, so you make up your own reality as you go along. They have special places that for people like that, you know?

Look it up then..dictionary : Leader "5. the best of its kind
as far as special places for people like me....
YOu said:
We have already learned back in the beginning that you like to sweep any and all facts under the carpet, just to keep arguing, in the same fashion we have learned you like to re-invent the very definitions of words to keep arguing your points also.

Who's "We" ?Are there a few of you there? You don't purport to speak for all others do you? And you think I'm arrogant?


“Im not undermining any position by wanting to purchase a GX100...I simply find the wide end(24mm) highly desirable in a P&S.”


BTW..it's the G9 im selling..not the LX2.Get your "facts" straight.

You'll have to show me image comparison tests of the G9 vs LX2 raw....because as I said..I have both and the difference is indiscernable or negligable.

You can have your opinion..I can have mine. I don't kniow why you get in such a huff...saying things like I make up my own definitions. I am not trying to generalise as to what a consensus on any issue is...I find that both boring and useless. I am stating my experienced,personal,informed point of view. My opinion. You have yours...I have mine. You don't have both cameras...so you have to rely on others opinions. There are "facts" to support positive aspects of both cameras. The LX2 is clearly the leader.

Dont believe me..I dont care. I only interceded on behalf of those out there that are unaware of the LX2 ...and really the LX1 too. And that it is a strong alternative to the bigboy brands. The LX1 btw..is actually a GREAT deal..they can be had for very cheap and also shoot GREAT.
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BryanHansel
Sr. Member
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Posts: 369


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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2008, 07:42:28 PM »
ReplyReply

You two are like an old married couple, but all this talk makes me want to try an LX2. Want to ship me one? I'll take my G9 and the LX2 out and shoot them side-by-side for the summer while paddling, backpacking, biking, and then I'll let you both know which is the best, so we can settle this.

Who wants to send me a LX2?

BTW, it's the photographer and not the camera, right?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 07:43:18 PM by BryanHansel » Logged

mrleonard
Guest
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2008, 10:04:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
BTW, it's the photographer and not the camera, right?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194745\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

LOL..Ya...but only when armed with the leader of point and shoot digital cameras,I mean the LX2.
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JohnKoerner
Guest
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2008, 02:51:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Mr. Leonard said,
“Look it up then..dictionary : Leader ‘5. the best of its kind”

Right. And the Canon ranks higher in virtually every category than the LX2, including features, reach, image quality, and market share. Show me any independent review which has either the brand Panasonic or the LX2 as “the best of its kind.”

Other definitions for leadership include: a) something that ranks first;  b ) the best or the most successful of its kind e.g.,: the company is a world leader in its field, which again would be Canon and not Panasonic in the realm of digital photography.

You really do have a problem with reality, don’t you?




Mr. Leonard said,
“Who's ‘We’ ?Are there a few of you there? You don't purport to speak for all others do you? And you think I'm arrogant?”

I think you are many things that the moderator has asked me not to say anymore, but since you brought it up, yes, arrogant would be included among the list of unfavorable adjectives for which you’d qualify. By “we” I meant all of the readership can see you make up your own reality as you go along.




Mr. Leonard said,
“BTW..it's the G9 im selling..not the LX2.Get your "facts" straight.”

My facts were straight in the beginning, which is why I thanked you for the offer of buying your G9, but let you know that I already had one. Thus it is you who needs to get your reading straight (in addition to your facts straight and your spelling straight).




Mr. Leonard said,
“You'll have to show me image comparison tests of the G9 vs LX2 raw....because as I said..I have both and the difference is indiscernable or negligable. ”]

There you go with your atrocious spelling, that keyboard of yours must be acting up again   What I find funny is that in a brief search I made for some comparisons, the LX2 doesn’t even qualify as an “advanced” P&S in many ranking systems, LOL




Mr. Leonard said,
“You can have your opinion..I can have mine. I don't kniow why you get in such a huff...saying things like I make up my own definitions.”

Of course you are welcome to your personal opinions as I am to mine. But when you made a general statement that the LX2 was “so clearly” the leader, this implied objective fact, not mere opinion. Therefore I merely sought to clarify how you could believe this in any capacity. And thus far, after more than 9 requests for you to provide me with a single, objective fact supporting this professed leadership, you have yet to comply. You keep withdrawing into your shell by talking about “your opinion,” which is inarguable and means nothing. And then, when the coast is clear, you babble once again about the objective “leadership” of the LX2.




Mr. Leonard said,
“ I am not trying to generalise as to what a consensus on any issue is...I find that both boring and useless.”

Well, in addition to misspelling yet another word Mr. Leonard, we find that you admit to NOT wanting to hear what the general consensus is, precisely because the general consensus of objective facts are against you. These details that you refuse to acknowledge are only “boring and useless” to you, because said results do not support your “opinion” that you somehow reached in your lost and isolated world where the LX2 is “so clearly” the leader. Yet this does not change the situation that the general facts, independent reviews, camera specs, market share, etc., etc. don’t show any such LX2 leadership as you claim. That was my point.




Mr. Leonard said,
“ I am stating my experienced, personal, informed point of view. My opinion. You have yours...I have mine. You don't have both cameras...so you have to rely on others opinions. There are ‘facts’ to support positive aspects of both cameras. The LX2 is clearly the leader.”

LOL, you just don’t get it, do you? There is a difference between “your personal preference” for the LX2 and the objective facts out there in the real world which show the G9 to be the leader. Just like there is a difference out there in the real world between how you spell the word “negligable” and how every other English dictionary on the planet spells it “negligible.”




Mr. Leonard said,
“Dont believe me..I dont care. I only interceded on behalf of those out there that are unaware of the LX2 ...and really the LX1 too. And that it is a strong alternative to the bigboy brands. The LX1 btw..is actually a GREAT deal..they can be had for very cheap and also shoot GREAT.”

I don’t believe you that the LX2 is “the leader” in the advanced P&S segment, no. But I do believe it is probably a pretty decent lil’ camera to have onhand and I am sure it puts out some fine pictures.

Jack
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 02:56:22 PM by JohnKoerner » Logged
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