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Author Topic: Super A3 == 13x19 - Why not call a spade a spade?  (Read 14927 times)
duraace
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« on: February 15, 2008, 05:23:02 PM »
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I just wasted an expensive sheet of Epson Exhibition Fiber paper printing for the first time to 13x19, which someone told me was A3, but turned out to be SuperA3.  Is there anyone else here who thinks this is truly stupid?  What's wrong with calling it "13x19" like other smaller sizes?
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Dale_Cotton
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2008, 06:10:54 PM »
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I suspect you've never lived outside the USA. IAC, you've just bumped up against yet another facet of globalization.

Even in the USA paper sizes like 8.5x11" and 11x17" have letter labels, namely ANSI A and ANSI B. In Europe the A4, A3, etc. sequence is the tradition and is a heck of a lot easier to refer to than 329x483mm. 13x19 would be a non-starter there, since Europe standardized on metric (as in centimeters) over imperial (as in inches) quite a while back.

When Epson invented / introduced 13x19" they wanted to market it in Japan, Europe, etc. and therefore needed designations that would make sense in those markets. There was no provision in the European system for a new paper size intermediate to A3 and A2, so they came up with +A3.
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duraace
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2008, 06:23:53 PM »
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I suspect you've never lived outside the USA. IAC, you've just bumped up against yet another facet of globalization.

Even in the USA paper sizes like 8.5x11" and 11x17" have letter labels, namely ANSI A and ANSI B. In Europe the A4, A3, etc. sequence is the tradition and is a heck of a lot easier to refer to than 329x483mm. 13x19 would be a non-starter there, since Europe standardized on metric (as in centimeters) over imperial (as in inches) quite a while back.

When Epson invented / introduced 13x19" they wanted to market it in Japan, Europe, etc. and therefore needed designations that would make sense in those markets. There was no provision in the European system for a new paper size intermediate to A3 and A2, so they came up with +A3.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175144\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ah yes, well that would explain it.  The metric designations are indeed unwieldily.  Anyway, once bitten, never again.  A3 and SuperA3 it is.  :-)
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2008, 08:27:04 PM »
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I created the attached simple minded (to suit my capabilities) document to help me keep track of the paper sizes and standards for identifying them. I keep a copy handy under the glass on my desk.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 08:35:41 PM by Beachconnection » Logged

Jack Varney
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2008, 08:29:19 PM »
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2008, 09:15:09 PM »
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When Epson invented / introduced 13x19" they wanted to market it in Japan, Europe, etc. and therefore needed designations that would make sense in those markets. There was no provision in the European system for a new paper size intermediate to A3 and A2, so they came up with +A3.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175144\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A3+ is actually for printing A3 full bleed proofs complete with all printers marks. A3 is pretty much a normal magazine double page spread so A3+ is necessary to proof 2-pages-to-view properly.
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Nick Rains
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duraace
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2008, 01:50:33 PM »
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I created the attached simple minded (to suit my capabilities) document to help me keep track of the paper sizes and standards for identifying them. I keep a copy handy under the glass on my desk.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175166\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's great. Thanks!
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rdonson
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2008, 05:54:51 PM »
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Here's a chart I've been using.  I don't recall where I got it from but its been useful.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
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abiggs
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2008, 09:06:53 PM »
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Here is a great Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size
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Andy Biggs
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duraace
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2008, 09:09:12 PM »
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Here is a great Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That certainly wins the prize for the ultimate explanation.  :-)
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NikoJorj
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2008, 02:42:05 PM »
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A3+ is actually for printing A3 full bleed proofs complete with all printers marks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175175\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Don't know what was in the creator's mind at this time, but here in France, "A3+" surely stands for 13"x19" (but as said, we don't count on our fingers anymore  ) aka 329x483mm. SuperA3 or SuperB is rarely seen (maybe on UK packaging only).
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 06:58:37 AM »
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I suspect you've never lived outside the USA. IAC, you've just bumped up against yet another facet of globalization.

In Europe the A4, A3, etc. sequence is the tradition and is a heck of a lot easier to refer to than 329x483mm.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175144\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You meant to say "everywhere but in the US" instead of "Europe"? Right? In Asia, it is also the metric system like everywhere in the world, but in the US.

And by "just bumped up against yet another facet of globalization", you probably mean "just bumped up against yet another facet of non-USA standard"? Right? If by "globalization" you mean "something not from USA", waow! It's really narrow minded.

Each day, I cannot prevent myself from being constantly impressed with the US-centric characteristics of all US-natives. Do USA-people look at something else than their own belly button. There are billions of people in India and China. USA is soooo tiny by comparison. The world is not USA / non-USA. There are many and many countries in the world, you know? USA is just one of them and far from being the biggest. Your behavior is so... arrogant. Is this arrogance one of the genes in US-natives DNA?

_michel
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rdonson
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2008, 07:31:45 AM »
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Is this arrogance one of the genes in US-natives DNA?

_michel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175640\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

.... you already know the answer.  No.  Of course not.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
Dale_Cotton
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2008, 07:57:27 AM »
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Michel: I suspect you are assuming I live in the USA. I don't. My response was an attempt at communication, crafted to the best of my limited ability in order to achieve that purpose. While a punch in the mouth is certainly a form of communication, the message so communicated tends to be an unfruitful one ... at least when you're only 170 cm. tall. ;)

Chances are, since you live in Switzerland, you cannot drive more than a couple hours without reaching the border of another country. If instead you lived in the USA, chances are you would have to drive that far just to buy a new pair of boots. For an "American" (a designation that wants to absorb the entirety of two continents) the newspaper tells him that the United States is only one part of the planet; but his gas gauge tells him something entirely different.
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Neuffy
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2009, 01:53:23 AM »
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Slaughter: You might keep in mind that it is not only the US that uses Imperial [British Imperial typically, although America would like us to forget about that] standards. I am by no means American, but I've grown up (as has pretty much everybody I know) using pounds for human weight, feet and inches for human height and inches for measuring paper, wood, etc. That said, up here in the Great Frozen Wastelands of the North, we do use kilometers for driving distance, liters for liquids and so forth. It's really quite schizophrenic, once you write it all out.

If it is such extreme American arrogance to assume that all the world should use Imperial, is it not arrogance of a sort to assume that _only_ America uses Imperial?

It does seem highly unlikely that I will ever have a client request a print job with a size designation in anything other than feet and inches.
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SteveAlley
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2009, 11:48:03 AM »
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While I understand the system, what I don't understand is why paper cannot be labeled with more than one size designation on the packaging--especially for EPSON, who does NOT include 13x19 as a standard size in their drivers (but DOES have Super A3, etc) but leaves that designation OFF all of their packaging of their 13x19 paper!  What's up with that?  Seems that including common size designations on the paper packaging would make things easier for everyone.

But what do I know?  My wife didn't send me to work today with an opinion...

S
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2009, 11:57:10 AM »
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This is all pretty silly since one can create a Lightroom preset and one in the Epson print driver box to deal with the different sizes of paper.  As long as the US resists moving over the metric system (and I've been around more than enough years to realize that it's not going to happen anytime soon) we are stuck with inches.
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NikoJorj
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2009, 01:49:54 PM »
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Quote from: SteveAlley
Seems that including common size designations on the paper packaging would make things easier for everyone.
Coming from a brand that labels the former "Epson archival matte" (well known for quick OBA fading  ), and now generally "Epson enhanced matte", "Ultra Premium Presentation Paper matte" (the denomination is in the drivers, but I have yet to see it on packaging...) and that probably to better differentiate it fron the "Premium Presentation Paper matte" aka Heavyweight matte (rather flimsy at 167gsm   )?
Yes, probably, but beware of flying pigs then.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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