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Author Topic: NEC Calibration Problem  (Read 15980 times)
MNP500
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« on: February 16, 2008, 06:00:47 PM »
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I just got a new NEC LCD2690Wuxi monitor with the SpectraView II software and the Eye-One Display 2 puck.  I calibrated, as some have suggested, to D65, 2.2, 150cd.

The display is too blue, and does not match my prints.  I had been using an old CRT with a Spyder2 with my Epson 3800, and various papers...that setup matched quite well.

Any suggestions?  Thanks

Michael
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Thomas Krüger
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2008, 12:05:02 AM »
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My settings for calibration with SpectraViewII (version 1.0.32 Build 61201) and the Eye One Display 2 are:
White Point: 6500K
Gamma: 2.20
Intensity: 120 cd/m²

I print with a Z3100 through Qimage. Beside the self calibration of the printer with this software it's very easy to check the profiles of your monitor and the printer in the settings of the Job Properties. Do you have disabled all other calibration software on your computer?
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Josh-H
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2008, 12:34:53 AM »
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My settings for calibration with SpectraViewII (version 1.0.32 Build 61201) and the Eye One Display 2 are:
White Point: 6500K
Gamma: 2.20
Intensity: 120 cd/m²

I print with a Z3100 through Qimage. Beside the self calibration of the printer with this software it's very easy to check the profiles of your monitor and the printer in the settings of the Job Properties. Do you have disabled all other calibration software on your computer?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175399\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I use the same settings  - D65, Gama 2.2 120 Candellas.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2008, 09:50:28 AM »
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Any suggestions?  Thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How are you viewing the prints?
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Andrew Rodney
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MNP500
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2008, 10:32:30 AM »
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How are you viewing the prints?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have recalibrated to 120cd.

I'm viewing under tungsten in my office, but also looking at prints under daylight.  Yes, in daylight the colors are much closer.  Under tungsten, they're awful.  But in both tungsten and daylight the NEC image is brighter and more saturated than the prints.  So if I get saturation to my liking on screen, the prints are flat.  Hmmm....?

Thanks all for the help

Michael
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digitaldog
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2008, 11:21:39 AM »
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I'm viewing under tungsten in my office, but also looking at prints under daylight.  Yes, in daylight the colors are much closer.  Under tungsten, they're awful. 

You've got to either make two calibration presets and switch based on the viewing or stick with "Daylight" (better). Nearly all ICC output profiles assume a D50 ("Daylight") viewing so I'd say, the tungsten viewing is not effective. The luminance needs to be matched to viewing too. So if the display looks too light, you need to lower that target. But a new LCD is going to have a tough time getting much lower than 120 cd/m2. So up the intensity of the daylight (IOW, you need to CONTROL this, you can't just look at the display, then pop a print nearby a window and expect a match).

You might want to look at some Solux viewing lights and set them distance wise for a correct intensity:

http://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/infopages/index.html

You should also be setting up Photoshop's proof setup correctly:
http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200409_rodneycm.pdf
http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200411_rodneycm.pdf
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Andrew Rodney
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MNP500
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2008, 12:14:02 PM »
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That's interesting.. thanks.   You mention D50 standard.. but I shouldn't be calibrating to D50?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2008, 12:23:03 PM »
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That's interesting.. thanks.   You mention D50 standard.. but I shouldn't be calibrating to D50?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175479\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You might want D50, D65, D55.... All depends on what matches the prints best.
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Andrew Rodney
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J mandell
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 06:06:01 PM »
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Can I admit to being a little more confused than this? I have two questions:

1. I bought my 2690Wuxi without the NEC calibrator, having been advised by a number of people that my Spyder2 would do just as well.
But the NEC user guide, while listing the extraordinary number of controls available to the user, makes no mention of which of them should be used to achieve color fidelity. I'm assuming most of the controls are for people not using hardware calibration, but that's really my question: am I supposed to be doing anything other than using the Spyder and its software (as I was doing with my previous Apple 23" monitor)? If so, is there someplace I can find such this information?

2. the Colorvision Spyder software says to run it with the monitor set at factory brightness, but this will melt my eyes or give me a sunburn, whichever comes first. Is there any problem in turning this thing down to something like 85 or 90% and calibrating from there?
Thanks.
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Josh-H
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2008, 06:11:58 PM »
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Can I admit to being a little more confused than this? I have two questions:

1. I bought my 2690Wuxi without the NEC calibrator, having been advised by a number of people that my Spyder2 would do just as well.
But the NEC user guide, while listing the extraordinary number of controls available to the user, makes no mention of which of them should be used to achieve color fidelity. I'm assuming most of the controls are for people not using hardware calibration, but that's really my question: am I supposed to be doing anything other than using the Spyder and its software (as I was doing with my previous Apple 23" monitor)? If so, is there someplace I can find such this information?

2. the Colorvision Spyder software says to run it with the monitor set at factory brightness, but this will melt my eyes or give me a sunburn, whichever comes first. Is there any problem in turning this thing down to something like 85 or 90% and calibrating from there?
Thanks.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just to be clear - you are using the Spyder software and not the nec spectraview II software?

If you are using the Spyder 2 and spyder software you are not accessing the monitors internal 12-but LUT. You are doing the calibration soley to your video card via the Spyder software.

SpectraView II software is required to get the best out of this monitor - see:
[a href=\"http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCenter/Monitors/spectraview2/]Spectra View II[/url]

I suspect the problem is with the calibration LUT in the video card - not the monitor.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 06:13:58 PM by Josh-H » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 06:14:11 PM »
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Just to be clear - you are using the Spyder software and not the nec spectraview II software?

Yes that's a critical question that needs to be answered due to the original question/statement:
Quote
1. I bought my 2690Wuxi without the NEC calibrator, having been advised by a number of people that my Spyder2 would do just as well.

If you're not using the SpectraView software, that's just not even close to being correct.
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Andrew Rodney
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MNP500
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 08:55:28 PM »
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Yes that's a critical question that needs to be answered due to the original question/statement:

If you're not using the SpectraView software, that's just not even close to being correct.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175807\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


There's a little confusion here. I'm the original poster.. J Mandell is the guy currently using the Spyder.  I'm using SpectraView, and now that I've calibrated to 120cd and am viewing prints with a daylight bulb, the colors are, in many cases, very good.

I'm still having color shifts with certain kind of prints (prints slightly on the green side), so I'm not sure what to do about that.  Soft-proofing does not show the green cast, so something else is wrong...or perhaps I can't expect WYSIWYG for everything...?

Michael
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 09:05:42 PM by MNP500 » Logged
Josh-H
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2008, 09:02:21 PM »
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There's a little confusion here. I'm the original poster.. Josh is the guy currently using the Spyder.  I'm using SpectraView, and now that I've calibrated to 120cd and am viewing prints with a daylight bulb, the colors are, in many cases, very good.

I'm still having color shifts with certain kind of prints (prints slightly on the green side), so I'm not sure what to do about that.  Soft-proofing does not show the green cast, so something else is wrong...or perhaps I can't expect WYSIWYG for everything...?

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175829\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

err.. I am NOT the guy using the Spyder - I use SpectraView II.

I think you mean J Mandell.
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MNP500
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2008, 09:04:04 PM »
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err.. I am NOT the guy using the Spyder - I use SpectraView II.

I think you mean J Mandell.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175830\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

sorry Josh..thanks for the correction (I fixed it)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 09:06:24 PM by MNP500 » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 08:07:56 AM »
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I'm still having color shifts with certain kind of prints (prints slightly on the green side), so I'm not sure what to do about that.  Soft-proofing does not show the green cast, so something else is wrong...or perhaps I can't expect WYSIWYG for everything...?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175829\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is this with just this one profile or all profiles? If just one, then its one of the tables.
It could be either the output profile table or the preview portion of the table not being in sync. You need to now output documents of known color properties (like my Printer Test File). If they appear OK, then the soft proof table is suspect. If they print green, its the output table.
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Andrew Rodney
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MNP500
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 10:10:10 AM »
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Is this with just this one profile or all profiles? If just one, then its one of the tables.
It could be either the output profile table or the preview portion of the table not being in sync. You need to now output documents of known color properties (like my Printer Test File). If they appear OK, then the soft proof table is suspect. If they print green, its the output table.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Andrew.  I'm getting similar results with 3 papers/profiles: Epson Luster, Epson Exhibition Fibre, and Ilford Gold Silk Fibre.  The image in question is fairly high contrast shot--white swan on quite black water--the black water particularly has a greenish tint.. on screen it's very neutral.  Other images, with a more usual color dispersement, don't seem to have the problem as much, if at all.  I need to do more testing, and have also ordered a Solux light.

Where can I get your Printer Test File?

BTW, I enjoy your version of the RCA Nipper.  Being an old vinyl listener (I still listen and have quite a collection of RCA "Shaded Dogs") I got a kick out of it.

Michael
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digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2008, 10:11:39 AM »
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Where can I get your Printer Test File?

Tips and tricks page of my site, upper left.
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Andrew Rodney
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 10:21:46 AM »
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For what it's worth, I just got the same monitor and calibrator combination as you, and I also print to a 3800 (in my case, usually to Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss paper, with Ilford's canned profile for the 3800).  I did my first calibration yesterday, compared the monitor with some test prints, and was pleasantly surprised that prints and monitor matched extremely closely.  I was viewing the prints under a frosted skylight with blue-sky direct sun through it, and my target settings in SVII were 6500K (very similar to D65, I believe), gamma 2.2, and intensity 100.  I started with those settings because those were the ones I used to use with my old CRT monitor, but they worked so well with the NEC that I'm continuing to use them.

In doing the monitor/print comparisons, I compared bright colors, overall brightness, shadow detail and neutrality of a B&W image, and the settings above worked very well for me.

I wonder whether one's choice of print paper (and the quality of the associated profile) makes a significant difference in the quality of the print/monitor match???

Lisa
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MNP500
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2008, 10:31:13 AM »
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That's good to hear Lisa...I'll do some more testing and report back.. thanks
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Jim Titschler
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2008, 10:58:47 AM »
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I also just purchased the 2690Wuxi with the Spectraview software. First I am amazed how poor my EyeOne Display software is at calibration! No matter what the settings, my monitors looked magenta. Using Spectraview on my 2690Wuxi my colors are dead on. Unfortunately I had been used to viewing  images too magenta.

I have a problem with very wide soft diffused bars moving vertically on my monitor when I have a plain screen (solid desktop or solid background file in Photoshop). My settings are D65, gamma 2.2, and 110cd. It almost appears like horizontal smoke signals. My refresh rate is locked at 60hz.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Nec believes it to be a defective monitor and will swap monitors for me. Nec is by far the best customer support I have ever dealt with, Apple should take a lesson or two from them because they are the worst.



Thanks,

Jim
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