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Author Topic: Any new 17" printer rumours?  (Read 20348 times)
neil snape
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2008, 08:24:42 AM »
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If they do I hope it isn't proportionally larger than the B9180.  I'd hate to have to find 40% more space for that thing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176388\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The width would have to grow, the guides and bushings have to be increased in size, the tray of course, maybe the pump has to be a tad bit bigger for the ink supply tubes length increase, a few other things too. Yet this doesn't insist a total redo of the 9180 if it were to stay in the current chassis design. IF it were to be a hybrid between a Z and the Photosmart, it would probably be on the bigger size as you need more room for larger or different  traction wheels and bearings/stepper motor, to guarantee higher precision in long run feed alignment.
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abiggs
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2008, 08:26:28 AM »
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What is ironic is that the HP B9180 seems to have overall better customer satisfaction at the moment over the Z series of printers. I haven't seen any body rushing towards the thought of having a smaller Z3100.
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Andy Biggs
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Kenneth Sky
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2008, 09:19:19 AM »
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Hopefully HP won't abandon the 9180 in favour of the 8850 until they do produce a 17" model. The major weakness with HP 38  inks is the lack of a gloss optimizer which could easily be inserted in a 17" model of the 9100 series. But who knows if they are contemplating a 17" version of the Z3100 series.
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neil snape
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2008, 09:34:54 AM »
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There are at least two ways to control gloss differential that could be employed with inkjets. The first and in my opinion is to use ink formulation that reduces to a minimum Gloss Diff on the majority of the current glossy and or satin type photo papers.
The second and more complicated is to use gloss enhancer or GLOP in Epson terms. The cost to the users is much higher than the ink formulation added costs but the lead time is or can be less than ink formulation , especially when it is already done ( case in point: Epson R 1800/1900, Z 3100 series). In the case of the 9180 both would be major changes, ink formulation the lesser, but the lead time for ink formulation is quite long when major revisions are happening.
Canon had a fairly quick turn around in ink formulation, so all things are possible. I doubt that if they choose to go with a ProSumer/entry level pro printer such as the 9180 line, they would add another ink bay and head for only GE. Yet the ball is high in the air, when it lands we'll know.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2008, 09:48:07 AM »
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The width would have to grow, the guides and bushings have to be increased in size, the tray of course, maybe the pump has to be a tad bit bigger for the ink supply tubes length increase, a few other things too. Yet this doesn't insist a total redo of the 9180 if it were to stay in the current chassis design. IF it were to be a hybrid between a Z and the Photosmart, it would probably be on the bigger size as you need more room for larger or different  traction wheels and bearings/stepper motor, to guarantee higher precision in long run feed alignment.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The carts on a printer like that shouldn't be 27 ML, the 69 ML ones usable on the Z3100 and Z2100 are wider but already available in the distribution channels and measure up to the 3800 80 ML carts. My guess 10 carts x 69 ML = 690 ML, acceptable quantity compared to the 3800 9 x 80 = 720 ML. The Canon iPF5100 are loaded with 90 ML carts when new. Cart slot for 10 HP carts will be approx 50 cm 20" wide in that case. Of course they can be placed anywhere with the pump in them.

Still IMHO.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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haefnerphoto
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2008, 09:56:57 AM »
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I agree with Andy, a 24" printer that has a cut sheet carrier and accepts rolls would be ideal.  Anyone else feel this way?  Jim
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neil snape
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2008, 09:57:26 AM »
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The carts on a printer like that shouldn't be 27 ML, the 69 ML ones usable on the Z3100 and Z2100 are wider but already available in the distribution channels and measure up to the 3800 80 ML carts. My guess 10 carts x 69 ML = 690 ML, acceptable quantity compared to the 3800 9 x 80 = 720 ML.

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176411\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes the starter cartridges that he 24" printers ship with at 69ml are very good to fill the gap between the too big for infrequent printing 130ml, and the too small for production 27/28ml cartridges. IF they put in 10 of them , it's a major overhaul of the ink bays. Could that be the delay???
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abiggs
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2008, 10:00:26 AM »
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I agree with Andy, a 24" printer that has a cut sheet carrier and accepts rolls would be ideal.  Anyone else feel this way?  Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176412\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 honestly think they would be able to sell $3000 or $3500 printers to many of us if they just added a cassette on the front of a 24" printer design. If you look at the market for these printers, they are selling to more than photographers. They are selling to photographers, pre press houses, design houses, fine art editions houses, etc etc etc. The market is much bigger than the photo market, that's for sure. I am sure that the market is changing, too. I think a 24" printer is the new 17" printer. We are able to make larger enlargements the more megapixels we have.
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Andy Biggs
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2008, 10:13:01 AM »
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What is ironic is that the HP B9180 seems to have overall better customer satisfaction at the moment over the Z series of printers. I haven't seen any body rushing towards the thought of having a smaller Z3100.
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Wrong guess in my opinion. Having a Z3100 I do not see a quality, technical or practical reason why there shouldn't be a scaled down version but only a marketing reason. Adding a third party spectrometer + the software for it will not be a 30% price addition on a model like that but could be 100% more. Nice for offset proof printing but probably too expensive for a wider market. A 17" model has always been a mix between sheet and roll printing, it would be unwise to neglect that. There are nice features for sheet printing on the B9180 + its 1.5 mm media transport but it lacks the gloss enhancer, the one thing that could give it an edge over the competition. Whether the step to 12 inks is worth it is harder to estimate. On fade properties the 8 ink model actually scores better than the 12 ink model and the Canon is considered a big machine for the printing width, 12 channel system + carts occupies space. Canon doesn't have the option to scale the number of channels other than to 6 or 12, Epson is even more fixed with a one head assembly. HP's more modular approach has the flexibility and they will use that advantage in different ways.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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Peter Frahm
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2008, 12:14:19 PM »
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I heard some dirt about an Epson 3800 that hooked up with a Canon bubble jet fax machine. They didn't get along and created a scene..something about GUI's and paper feed incompatabilities. The Canon was spotted after the brouhaha, sitting on the curb emitting a plaintive wail. The 3800 went back to the bar. Thank you very much.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2008, 02:21:24 PM »
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I haven't check prices on the iPF5100 recently, but there was a post on DP Review a couple of days ago stating prices had decreased to the $1200-1300 range, probably to be competitive with the Epson 3800.  Might be useful to check the current prices if the 5100 is still under consideration.

--John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176169\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
$1299 with free shipping and a free roll of paper. It's tempting, but I'm just afraid if I get one I'll end up regretting not saving for a 24" printer. It's a shame there's a $1200 jump in price to the 6100.
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misterpatrick
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« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2008, 05:03:35 PM »
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Hello all,

I am also about to spring for a 3800 (and that free P-3000). This has been a great thread to help me decide and I think I'll go ahead and do it as my 2200 has died and if a new printer comes out, it'll be month before I could get my hands on one.

Quick question. Do I need to get inks right away or will the inks that the printer comes with last me awhile? I am not a high volume printer and a set of inks on my 2200 usually last me about a month. I also print primarily matte, does the 3800 come with matte black? Thanks!
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Dale_Cotton
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« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2008, 05:42:00 PM »
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Do I need to get inks right away or will the inks that the printer comes with last me awhile? I am not a high volume printer and a set of inks on my 2200 usually last me about a month. I also print primarily matte, does the 3800 come with matte black? Thanks!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If 2200 inks last you a month, then 3800 inks will last you a year. Yes, it comes with matte black as well as photo black.
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Update, since I started this thread: My 3800 arrived yesterday and set up went without a hitch on XP ... this in spite of the fact that the power cord fell out of the socket in my UPS during ink initialization! Main IQ differences compared to the 4000 I'm finding are correct handling of Zone 1 (this used to drive me crazy with the 4000) and profiles that can actually be used for soft-proofing. No pizza wheel tracks so far on RC. Physically, it's a bit of a culture shock going back to the delicate plastic construction, but the $1000 saving makes that easy to bear. ;)

I've been reading Eric Chan's 3800 wiki like a bible, as much since I got the printer as when trying to decide which to buy. Great resource.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2008, 06:52:32 AM »
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That should be a new FAQ entry: What happens if my power cord falls out during ink initialization?     (I guess that shouldn't be too frequently asked ...)
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Farmer
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« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2008, 07:05:53 AM »
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That should be a new FAQ entry: What happens if my power cord falls out during ink initialization?     (I guess that shouldn't be too frequently asked ...)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If it doesn't finish initialisation, it should attempt to do it again when you power it back on - there is a risk that your ink cartridges will not show the correct ink levels, though, if the printer hasn't written data back to them when it crashes.

And, yes, I know you were joking, Eric :-) (but someone might actually be wondering!)
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Dale_Cotton
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« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2008, 12:41:33 PM »
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Farmer wrote:
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If it doesn't finish initialisation, it should attempt to do it again when you power it back on - there is a risk that your ink cartridges will not show the correct ink levels, though, if the printer hasn't written data back to them when it crashes.
Good point.

Unfortunately, I got called away by a family crisis just after the initialization started but before the plug came loose. (That's loose, not lose. ;) So I don't know how far into the charging process the printer got the first time. All I do know is that I was away for about 5 minutes. So the only data point I'd be able to supply is whether a cartridge runs dry while the status panel says there is still ink left. Think I'll pass on that, thank you. ;) Maybe Mister Patrick will be kind enough to deliberately interrupt the initialization when he gets his 3800 then contribute his findings to Eric's wiki. ;)
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Farmer
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« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2008, 06:42:05 PM »
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Farmer wrote:

Good point.

Unfortunately, I got called away by a family crisis just after the initialization started but before the plug came loose. (That's loose, not lose.  So I don't know how far into the charging process the printer got the first time. All I do know is that I was away for about 5 minutes. So the only data point I'd be able to supply is whether a cartridge runs dry while the status panel says there is still ink left. Think I'll pass on that, thank you.  Maybe Mister Patrick will be kind enough to deliberately interrupt the initialization when he gets his 3800 then contribute his findings to Eric's wiki.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177091\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you have carts showing as low (giving a low warning) and you get banding and see losses in the nozzle checks and can't revover with a clean, I'd suggest changing the carts showing as low as they may be running out.  You should see that before you run so dry as to be any real problem.

Also, if you have carts that low and get any sort of error, contact support and if they tell you it's pressure related or cart related, change the low carts as they may actually be empty or close to it.

Just a guess :-)
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Johnny V
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« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2008, 08:49:07 PM »
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Hello all,

I am also about to spring for a 3800 (and that free P-3000). This has been a great thread to help me decide and I think I'll go ahead and do it as my 2200 has died and if a new printer comes out, it'll be month before I could get my hands on one.

Quick question. Do I need to get inks right away or will the inks that the printer comes with last me awhile? I am not a high volume printer and a set of inks on my 2200 usually last me about a month. I also print primarily matte, does the 3800 come with matte black? Thanks!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If there is a 3800 replacement I don't see how the output could get much better...maybe a little bit...but not by much. I'd say go for it now as times a wasting to print and get that P-3000 for free also.

I purchased my 4800 and inks from itsupplies.com they are an excellent company to buy from.

Printer comes with glossy and matte black inks...the rest of the inks are for both matte and glossy papers.

Inks will last a while for you...no need to buy a full set right away.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 08:52:07 PM by Johnny V » Logged
Dale_Cotton
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« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2008, 08:44:54 AM »
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Johnny V wrote:
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I don't see how the output could get much better
Concur! Main thing for me is saying good riddance to ruddy metamerism.

I took two printouts of a test image from Digital Outback (based on the Bill Atkinson RGB image) to work. This image has a grey scale ramp, the four polychrome children's faces, etc. One of the prints was done on my previous 4000, using the original UltraChrome ink set. The other on the 3800, using the K3 ink set. In my cubicle, which is entirely lit by office fluorescents, the 4000 print shows a sickly purple-pink cast. It's not even subtle - the grey scale is more of a mauve scale. ;) - but its even more obvious when comparing it to the print from the 3800, which remains perfectly neutral. Yet take the same two prints over to a window and they magically become identical twins.

I'm also noticing improvement in deep shadow colour handling - black to near-black - plus, pure hues like yellow, red, blue, and green are definitely more saturated. Haven't really tested for this yet, but I think I'm seeing some of the benefit of the improved dither; some indication that one could print a given image maybe 10% or 15% larger before detail starts to break down.
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abiggs
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« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2008, 08:48:00 AM »
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..I don't see how the output could get much better...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Try better paper handling! I moved away from the 3800 primarily because of ink splotches near the end of fine art cut sheets. With the 3800's lack of a vacuum system to keep paper flat, this is a big challenge. Increasing the platen gap helps, but does not eliminate the issue.
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Andy Biggs
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Africa Photo Safaris | Workshops | Fine Art Prints
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