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Author Topic: Replacing ink cartridges at Z3100  (Read 14027 times)
Colorwave
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« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2008, 09:41:52 AM »
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Darn.  HP has to go and ruin things, just as I was getting onboard with weighing and swapping my almost empty cartridges to squeeze all the ink out of them.  This takes all the sport out of it, but I suppose I can get used to it.
-Ron H.
PS:  I wish I knew why I never have received any notices from HP about technical matters like Mike.  I'm on the list for updates, but have yet to ever get one directly.
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2008, 12:01:43 PM »
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Darn.  HP has to go and ruin things, just as I was getting onboard with weighing and swapping my almost empty cartridges to squeeze all the ink out of them.  This takes all the sport out of it, but I suppose I can get used to it.
-Ron H.
PS:  I wish I knew why I never have received any notices from HP about technical matters like Mike.  I'm on the list for updates, but have yet to ever get one directly.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179797\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

  Don't feel so bad, I got an email from someone in HP that I was dealing with when I had a lot of headstrike problems when trying to print on FAP about a year ago.  The email was sent to me by mistake I'm sure....  
I've never had one before....

Mike
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 12:02:18 PM by mcbroomf » Logged

Mike Broomfield
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Roscolo
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2008, 02:02:16 PM »
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I have not tried the new firmware / driver yet. But, if in fact, the issue of changing a cart in the middle of a print is addressed, I have to say I'm very impressed with HP (I've been impressed with the z3100 from day one). I considered the cart changing isssue very minor, more of an annoyance, but it will be great to have if fixed.

Some implied early on that HP would not address some of the annoyances of the z3100 for the purchasers, rather they would address the probs in future models like some other companies (cough, ahem..epson...cough, cough). I am impressed with HP's commitment to the z. And for future reference to HP and other companies, this commitment is the way to get and KEEP a customer. Glad I made the switch. Keep up the good work.
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hubicka
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2008, 09:42:00 AM »
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The commitment of Z3100 engineers on improving the machine is really impressive.  On the other hand I am impressed how many problems this machine got (not speaking of HP website or willingness to import anything here to Czech Republic).  The ink swapping issue seems almost like simple bug in firmware: everything seems ready to do the operation when printing stops, just firmware won't let you.

There are number of other issues of this nature. For example I don't understand why turning off the machine for a short while leads to head cleaning cycle, when the PC hidden in machine has clock and knows it wasn't long... We also had at least 3 firmware crashes this year.

In any case the pleasure from quality prints and economical factors of running z3100 outweights the problems and I am very happy the issue of ink cartridges changing is being addressed so soon after we hit it.

Honza http://sechtl-vosecek.ucw.cz
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Roscolo
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2008, 11:00:39 AM »
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The commitment of Z3100 engineers on improving the machine is really impressive.  On the other hand I am impressed how many problems this machine got (not speaking of HP website or willingness to import anything here to Czech Republic).  The ink swapping issue seems almost like simple bug in firmware: everything seems ready to do the operation when printing stops, just firmware won't let you.

There are number of other issues of this nature. For example I don't understand why turning off the machine for a short while leads to head cleaning cycle, when the PC hidden in machine has clock and knows it wasn't long... We also had at least 3 firmware crashes this year.

In any case the pleasure from quality prints and economical factors of running z3100 outweights the problems and I am very happy the issue of ink cartridges changing is being addressed so soon after we hit it.

Honza http://sechtl-vosecek.ucw.cz
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I don't know about the head-cleaning cycle, but I know it is recommended that the z be left on all the time.

There have been some minor annoyances, but I guess I'm just really pleased that there haven't been more, as the z3100 is the first of its kind. Rarely does a new product or generation start off this well. As good as it is, HP's response to the issues some have had is what has caught my attention even more than the outstanding prints the z produces.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 11:04:10 AM by Roscolo » Logged
Hellstan
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2008, 12:27:22 PM »
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I got an email from HP with the following info;

oooo

"    *  Coming end of the month: Next firmware and driver versions

          o By end of the month, we are planning to have new firmware version 7 together with new drivers for MAC and Windows platforms. The main features will be:

                + From firmware side: Cartridge swapping in the middle of a print:  In case the printer runs out of ink in the middle of a print, the print will not be cancelled and the printer will wait for customer to exchange the empty cartridge.
                + From drivers side: MAC OS X.5 support for HP Designjet Z3100PS

         There would be a follow-up communication with further detail. Notice that in this new firmware release there will not be changes on the internal structure of paper presets, so the latest documentation on "Working with other commercially papers" for FW 6 will be also valid for FW 7"

oooo

Mike
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Finally could download firmware.
Download completed, mounted file, alright.
I go to the updating window in Printer Utility, select new firmware file (ending with .fmw, as stated by HP).
Click "Update". 1% 2% 4% Then, crash. A stange message, telling it could not reach server, etc.
Which server, I have none, and the firmware file is on my HD ?
No matter how I try, I get the same error message
My current firmware is 5.0.0.4, so the new one should install itself.
 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 07:54:30 PM by Hellstan » Logged

Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2008, 09:46:00 AM »
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It may be the grams that tell the story but I suspect the ink counter goes by the droplets fired. So if there's 10 ML left according the HP software and there's 20 grams in the cart it may leave 10 ML in the cart when it's declared empty (all round numbers). I can only see two other methods the printer could drain the cart better and that is by a sensor that checks the ink pressure in the line or a sensor that checks the cart pump actuator whether it has to work harder for the last drops while creating a vacuum in the cart. The last is the more reliable method. I have not tested yet whether carts declared empty contain the same amount of ink left, if so that would indicate an extra sensor. If the empty cart content varies it is more likely a droplet counter that is used. I have lots of  carts still holding 5 ML according to HP but with varying weights. I have few empty carts yet that are not touched afterwards so I can not reliably measure them.

Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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Had to swap an LM 130 ML cart today as it was declared empty (between prints !). There was 4 ML remaining in the cart that I could pull out (with some difficulty) with a syringe. Cart was 48 grams when pulled empty. The new one was 192 grams. Difference 144 grams and the 4 ML pulled out is 4 grams. So 140 grams was used in the printer which is more than the 130 ML I paid for. Of the real content less than 3% in weight remains in the cart. I start to think that the printer senses the pump struggle with the last MLs before it declares the cart empty and uses the droplet counter for the stages before that. It will be statistically difficult to get so close to that 4 ML left just on the droplet counter. If so my hat goes off again for the HP engineers.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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marcsitkin
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2008, 11:44:40 AM »
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I'm surprised that the Z3100 doesn't track roll length. The 5000/5500s do this, print a barcode on the end when you unload with the remainder info, and reads this when the roll is reloaded. Works really well.
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Marc Sitkin
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neil snape
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2008, 01:10:16 PM »
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I'm surprised that the Z3100 doesn't track roll length. The 5000/5500s do this, print a barcode on the end when you unload with the remainder info, and reads this when the roll is reloaded. Works really well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180434\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No the Z printers don't write to the back of the trailing edge upon unload as some others printers both HP or others do. It would be nice, and I'm confident if enough users request it, it would be in the next models.

If it is true , you can now swop midstream without loosing the print then great.
Since the release there have been many changes that go beyond bug fixes. Although the market demands a price for upgrading, HP have not ruled out in any way of making upgrades for current users. It's up to them to decide, but in my eyes they are very open to users desire to maintain and update current models in both software and hardware. Very impressive IMO.
Ernst's findings are what I found too. I had slightly less ink left in the cartridges but that is never going to be a fixed amount anyway.
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hubicka
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« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2008, 05:22:13 AM »
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Since the Web status page even include section for length of the roll (always listed as "unknown") I expect that the tracking of roll length is another feature that didn't get into the final product deadline but hopefully is planned as firmware upgrade.  Printer has everything it needs to do the trick.  

Honza
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neil snape
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« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2008, 02:15:50 AM »
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Tracing would be possible perhaps within the accounting section per job, but there are no provisions as per other HP or Canon printers with a small backside print out on the cut off of the roll.
I would still welcome a length used per roll over the many times missed guestimate of remaining paper!
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walter.sk
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« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2008, 07:49:45 AM »
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Since the Web status page even include section for length of the roll (always listed as "unknown") I expect that the tracking of roll length is another feature that didn't get into the final product deadline but hopefully is planned as firmware upgrade.  Printer has everything it needs to do the trick. 
Honza
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Even if HP doesn't change the printer firmware to enable tracking of how much paper is left on a roll, they should be able to alter the Jobs>Accounting report to keep a running total of paper used for each type of paper, divided by the width of the roll; a bit more elegance could be easily added by even entering manually the total length of the roll when first loading it.

As it is, I keep a running total of paper used for each roll so there are no surprises.
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neil snape
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« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2008, 08:08:36 AM »
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Even if HP doesn't change the printer firmware to enable tracking of how much paper is left on a roll, they should be able to alter the Jobs>Accounting report to keep a running total of paper used for each type of paper, divided by the width of the roll; a bit more elegance could be easily added by even entering manually the total length of the roll when first loading it.

As it is, I keep a running total of paper used for each roll so there are no surprises.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180814\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That is what I did before always noting the roll length used on a small paper inserted in the roll end.
The bigger problem was to remember to do this rigorously, for which I am not  known for.
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Serge Ignatkin
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« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2008, 03:31:20 PM »
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I just created a simple excel sheet with all jobs printed (failed too), tracking every opened roll of paper -- it counts the remaining length. A bit annoying -- but better than nothing.
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